David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:
Clive Page wrote in
:


But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to
push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having
cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm
baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they
are.

I always assume that things being sold on trains, aeroplanes and in baggage
reclaim halls are sold to a captive audience at some massive markup. After
all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not doing it out of
the goodness of their heart, and I'd probably end up with an First Anytime
Return on Terravision to Irkutsk Broadway when actually I could get a
Network Card super-offpeak to Liverpool St instead.

What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the
basics of the system:

1) are you travelling within London?
2) do you have a contactless payment card? or
3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it
4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains.

(You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London",
how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.)

Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about
American Express?
Can I put Euro on my Oyster card?
What happens when I run out of money?
Does my toddler need a card? At what age do they pay full fare?
What does 'peak' mean?

To name just a few. I can see why even British people go straight to the
ticket office.

Theo

In message , at 10:25:09 on Mon,
30 Mar 2015, Theo Markettos
remarked:


But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to
push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having
cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm
baffled as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they
are.

I always assume that things being sold on trains, aeroplanes and in baggage
reclaim halls are sold to a captive audience at some massive markup.

I don't think that's true of these kinds of tickets, at least for the
first two, and many of the permanent booths at airports. The prices are
more likely to be published in advance, for you to get the correct
amount of change, etc.

After all Ryanair offering me a transfer to central London are not
doing it out of the goodness of their heart,

They'll be getting a commission, but not necessarily any more than an
agent at the airport who also has to fund extra staff and premises.

and I'd probably end up with an First Anytime
Return on Terravision to Irkutsk Broadway when actually I could get a
Network Card super-offpeak to Liverpool St instead.

Apart from a CDR, the only tickets on that flow are Anytimes.

What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the
basics of the system:

1) are you travelling within London?
2) do you have a contactless payment card? or
3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it
4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains.

(You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London",
how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.)

Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about
American Express?

Indeed; even the TfL website isn't sure exactly which foreign or prepay
contactless cards they accept.

--
Roland Perry

On 30/03/2015 10:25, Theo Markettos wrote:
David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:
What's needed is a flyer, available in multiple languages, explaining the
basics of the system:

1) are you travelling within London?
2) do you have a contactless payment card? or
3) get an Oyster card and put some momey on it
4) touch in on buses, touch in and out on trains.

(You can begin to see the problems as you then have to explain "London",
how much money you need to put on the ticket etc etc.)

Is my "Bank of China" card a contactless payment card? What about
American Express?
Can I put Euro on my Oyster card?
What happens when I run out of money?
Does my toddler need a card? At what age do they pay full fare?
What does 'peak' mean?

Indeed. Also: what about instructions for the DLR, the Tramlink,
riverboats, national rail services, on all of which (in defined areas)
you can use an Oyster card (and maybe a contactless one, for all I
know). Other questions visitors might ask:
- can I get a refund of an unexpired balance and my deposit when I leave
- can 2 people travel on one Oyster card (they an on similar cards in
some other cities)
- what happens when I transfer from tube to rail/tram/bus etc or
vice-versa? If I touch out and then in again do I get charged twice?

The Oyster card system is so complicated that most of us natives don't
understand even half of the rules, so pity the poor visitor (or even the
rich one).



--
Clive Page

On 29/03/2015 23:45, Clive Page wrote:

On 29/03/2015 12:13, Clank wrote:
Personally, whenever I arrive in a foreign city for the first time I
always use ticket machines instead of windows because (a) there's a
much higher chance the machine will speak my language and (b) even
if it doesn't, it's unlikely to make fun of my accent.

I've received some useful pronunciation lessons from ticket clerks - if
one is open, willing and smiling it doesn't normally result in humiliation!


I appreciate anecdote doesn't make data though .

Well so do I. But in two cities in the last few years (Paris and
Rotterdam) I've found machines which won't take British credit or debit
cards and I had to resort to feeding in literally dozens of small coins
to buy my tickets. Fortunately I had just enough, but many tourists
will have had experiences like this and decide a human is more helpful
than a machine.

I haven't come across an issue with UK cards in Paris (either RATP or
SNCF machines). They don't take notes though.


But in the case of King's Cross, they take some trouble on Eurostar to
push sales of Oyster cards, and TfL also encourage their use by having
cash fares which are many times that of the Oyster fare. So I'm baffled
as to why the queues are so long, but it's a fact that they are.

Lots of people simply don't think about it until they arrive.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:35:58 +0100, Mizter T
wrote:

I haven't come across an issue with UK cards in Paris (either RATP or
SNCF machines). They don't take notes though.

RATP *used* to be trouble IMX, but now that everyone has an EMV card
they are fine. Just as well, as without any complaint on here (well,
I suppose this isn't uk.transport.paris) they have closed all/most of
their ticket offices as well, as have Barcelona and Madrid. (Not
forgetting all those networks where you have to go to the top of a
mountain on the Solstice to get the smart card that is then
rechargeable in millions of outlets.)

Richard.

On 30/03/2015 19:58, Richard wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:35:58 +0100, Mizter T
wrote:

I haven't come across an issue with UK cards in Paris (either RATP or
SNCF machines). They don't take notes though.

RATP *used* to be trouble IMX, but now that everyone has an EMV card
they are fine. Just as well, as without any complaint on here (well,
I suppose this isn't uk.transport.paris) they have closed all/most of
their ticket offices as well, as have Barcelona and Madrid. (Not
forgetting all those networks where you have to go to the top of a
mountain on the Solstice to get the smart card that is then
rechargeable in millions of outlets.)


:-)

Good point re the Paris comparison.

What's the situation re RER stations run by RATP (so in the centre), as
opposed to SNCF run ones - are there still ticket windows? My guess is
that there probably are, but it's a guess.

I've found the SNCF Transilien ticket counters at termini stations
useful places to buy a carnet - they happily take notes too!

Card acceptance in France pre-EMV chip standardisation was definitely
hit and miss - learnt the hard way by almost running out of petrol late
at night, card not accepted at at least two unmanned filling stations,
so we had to wait and strike a deal with a friendly local when they
eventually arrived to fill up themselves - lesson learnt!

In message , at 11:27:26 on Sun, 29
Mar 2015, Clive Page remarked:
quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is
part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making
changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently
closed.
end quote

"The" ticket hall? There are three.

Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket
windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket
office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late
afternoon the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't
all fit in the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people
waiting each time.

And I've got a photo of the ticket machines with queues of a dozen
people at each. Maybe there are more of the machine now?

The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or
Brussels arrives.

I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the
ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose
that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I
might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a
machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly
arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences
in using ticket machines in foreign cities before.

The answer is perhaps to have some "Tourist Oyster" vending machines. I
know the regular machines sell Oysters now, but some dedicated machines
would be simpler.

Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers
there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the
refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was
closed a few months ago.

That was a "travel centre", more to do with selling theatre and tour-bus
tickets. I wonder if they will have a more rail-ticket orientated
approach when it reopens?
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King’s Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part
of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes
to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed.
end quote

Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket
windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket
office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon
the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in
the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each
time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or
Brussels arrives.

I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the
ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose
that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I
might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a
machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly
arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences
in using ticket machines in foreign cities before.

Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers
there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the
refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed
a few months ago.

I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I
understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to
assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors
and others in operating the machines.

On Sunday, 29 March 2015 12:50:39 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King's Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part
of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes
to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed.
end quote

Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket
windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket
office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon
the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in
the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each
time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or
Brussels arrives.

I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the
ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose
that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I
might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a
machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly
arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences
in using ticket machines in foreign cities before.

Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers
there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the
refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed
a few months ago.

I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I
understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to
assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors
and others in operating the machines.

Since there are almost always non-trivial queues at every King's Cross ticket machine how is that going to work, then?

Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 08:46:37 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Sunday, 29 March 2015 12:50:39 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 11:27:26 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

TfL recently sent me an email message to tell me that:

quote
I am writing to let you know that after Easter, we will be carrying out
improvement work at King's Cross St. Pancras Tube station; this is part
of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes
to the ticket hall and the ticket windows will be permanently closed.
end quote

Well we all knew of TfL's desire to do away with all these pesky ticket
windows, but on Saturday I happened to walk past the western ticket
office at King's Cross twice. Both in the morning and in late afternoon
the queue for the ticket windows was so full that it didn't all fit in
the zig-zag barriers, there must have been 30 or 40 people waiting each
time. The queue noticeably lengthens soon after a train from Paris or
Brussels arrives.

I don't quite know why those in these long queues don't try to use the
ticket machines (but they often have long queues as well) but I suppose
that if I were just arriving in a foreign city for the first time I
might reckon it easier to get the right ticket from a human than from a
machine, given the complexity of the system. Some of these newly
arriving visitors might even, like me, have had unpleasant experiences
in using ticket machines in foreign cities before.

Whatever the reason, there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers
there after Easter. And TfL shows no signs at all of opening the
refurbished enquiry office near the western ticket hall which was closed
a few months ago.

I don't know all the ins and outs, not living in London, but I
understood the plan was to redeploy staff to the passenger areas to
assist passengers. I assume there will be staff to assist visitors
and others in operating the machines.

Since there are almost always non-trivial queues at every King's Cross ticket machine how is that going to work, then?

I assume (a) the majority of passengers will not require assistance
and (b) priority will be given to assisting the person at the head of
the queue.

Last time I had to wait for one of the party to use a King's Cross ticket office it was because he needed to buy a priv ticket. How will that work without a ticket office?

At my local station (ScotRail) there is an option to select 'Railcard'
then the appropriate form of Railcard. The fare is adjusted
accordingly and the nature of the Railcard (eg SNR) is printed on the
face of the ticket. I assume a similar system is not beyond the wit
and genius of the southerners.