Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.

--
Spud

On 30/04/2015 09:18, d wrote:
Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.

--
Spud

Hasn't this been discussed at length before? Namely it takes time to
implement a recovery service that would be time better spent
implementing a recovered service if the closure incident is going to be
transient. It also may be the case that a recovery service may have
less capacity than a full service and that TfL announce it's closed to
encourage people to take alternate routes when in fact there is a
modicum of a service running.

And if people see that length of line as crucial they clearly have very
short memories.

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:35:44 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 30/04/2015 09:18, d wrote:
Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.

--
Spud

Hasn't this been discussed at length before? Namely it takes time to
implement a recovery service that would be time better spent
implementing a recovered service if the closure incident is going to be
transient. It also may be the case that a recovery service may have

So in other words do nothing and hope the problem goes away. Yup, that
sounds like current cant-be-arsed railway operating practice. Its a good
think that approach isn't used in other walks of life. "Need an ambulance?
Sorry, bit of a traffic jam on the high street, they'll try again later."

less capacity than a full service and that TfL announce it's closed to
encourage people to take alternate routes when in fact there is a
modicum of a service running.

So overload the alternative routes. Good idea.

And if people see that length of line as crucial they clearly have very
short memories.

Well its probably fairly important if you work in hoxton or shoreditch and
as for the other destinations - are you suggesting everyone should pile onto
the already rammed victoria line?

--
Spud

On 30/04/2015 09:43, d wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:35:44 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 30/04/2015 09:18, d wrote:
Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.

--
Spud

Hasn't this been discussed at length before? Namely it takes time to
implement a recovery service that would be time better spent
implementing a recovered service if the closure incident is going to be
transient. It also may be the case that a recovery service may have

So in other words do nothing and hope the problem goes away.

No - not spending time moving things into position to implement an
emergency timetable when the problem is likely to go away fairly quickly
and it will then take longer getting things up to full speed afterwards
(as you have to undo the emergency timetable and get everything in
position for full normal running)

Yup, that
sounds like current cant-be-arsed railway operating practice. Its a good
think that approach isn't used in other walks of life. "Need an ambulance?
Sorry, bit of a traffic jam on the high street, they'll try again later."

less capacity than a full service and that TfL announce it's closed to
encourage people to take alternate routes when in fact there is a
modicum of a service running.

So overload the alternative routes. Good idea.

As opposed to what? Making everyone queue outside their station on
their normal route until the service recovers?


And if people see that length of line as crucial they clearly have very
short memories.

Well its probably fairly important if you work in hoxton or shoreditch and
as for the other destinations - are you suggesting everyone should pile onto
the already rammed victoria line?

Not every journey involves Highbury and Islington.

On 2015\04\30 09:18, d wrote:
Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.

--
Spud


A fire at New Cross shouldn't stop the services to Clapham, Croydon and
Crystal Palace from running.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\04\30 09:18, d wrote:
Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.



A fire at New Cross shouldn't stop the services to Clapham, Croydon and
Crystal Palace from running.

It does if it blocks depot access:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-cross-f...muters-1499080

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:09:46 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 30/04/2015 09:43, d wrote:
So in other words do nothing and hope the problem goes away.

No - not spending time moving things into position to implement an
emergency timetable when the problem is likely to go away fairly quickly

How do you know it was going to go away fairly quick? Fires can burn for days
especially if it involves tyres.

and it will then take longer getting things up to full speed afterwards

Please do explain why trains already on the track mean it'll take longer to get
a service running?

(as you have to undo the emergency timetable and get everything in
position for full normal running)

Given the trains run every 5 mins or so the timetable is an irrelevance to
the travelling public.

I know this might be hard to understand - but railways are there for the publics
convenience , NOT the convenience of the people who run them. Service awkward
to run? Tough bloody ****. Run it anyway - thats what you get paid for.

So overload the alternative routes. Good idea.

As opposed to what? Making everyone queue outside their station on
their normal route until the service recovers?

As opposed to running a shuttle service which had been done successfully
elsewhere many times for donkeys years and on a section of railway with no
branches would be simple to implement. Christ, even LU manage to run shuttle
services when there's a line failure and if they can do it anyone can.

And if people see that length of line as crucial they clearly have very
short memories.

Well its probably fairly important if you work in hoxton or shoreditch and
as for the other destinations - are you suggesting everyone should pile onto
the already rammed victoria line?

Not every journey involves Highbury and Islington.

Well if people normally travel from highbury then it will do. But if you
prefer, a lot of people get on at canonbury and dalston junction too. Are
they all supposed to get on a bus?

--
Spud

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:27:55 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\04\30 09:18, d wrote:
Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.



A fire at New Cross shouldn't stop the services to Clapham, Croydon and
Crystal Palace from running.

It does if it blocks depot access:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-cross-f...east-london-ra
l-commuters-1499080

Well thats a good enough reason - pity they didn't share it. I am however
rather surprised that they rely on 1 sole depot for the line. Don't they have
trains stationed in sidings for such emergencies?

--
Spud

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:22:54 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:40:18 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 09:27:55 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\04\30 09:18, d wrote:
Apparently the ELL was closed all the way from Highbury down to clapham this
morning because of a fire at new cross. Did they not think to install
reversing crossovers at various points on the line or could they simply not
be bothered to run a service on the rather crucial Highbury - Canada Water
section? What a shambles they are.

A fire at New Cross shouldn't stop the services to Clapham, Croydon and
Crystal Palace from running.

It does if it blocks depot access:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-cross-f...east-london-ra
l-commuters-1499080

Well thats a good enough reason - pity they didn't share it. I am however
rather surprised that they rely on 1 sole depot for the line. Don't they have
trains stationed in sidings for such emergencies?

Why should they? What's the probablility of an event like this? OK
it's happened now and we can all be wise after the event but if the
depot access is blocked then it's blocked. Also worth remembering
that the control room for the ELL core section is also at New Cross so
was almost certainly affected too. No point in having trains stabled
elsewhere if they can't be permitted to run.

Indeed so. And if trains were out-stabled, what's the chances they'd
get covered in graffiti?

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 11:26:11 +0100
Recliner wrote:
Indeed so. And if trains were out-stabled, what's the chances they'd
get covered in graffiti?

They could leave a couple at Dalston junction. That looks reasonable secure.

--
Spud