Overground article
 

In today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tfl-overground


E.

Overground article
 

On 29/05/2015 13:18, eastender wrote:
In today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tfl-overground


I'm in little doubt these transfers will be success stories - the
to-be-Crossrail Shenfield route is inevitable, but I'm thinking
particularly of the West Anglia metro routes.

It might not be quite the 'immediate overnight success story' that the
NLL transfer was - I think in significant part the immediate passenger
figure jump on the NLL was down to lots of existing users actually
starting to pay their fares! But since then the numbers have of course
continued to rise considerably.

Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

Overground article
 

Mizter T wrote:
On 29/05/2015 13:18, eastender wrote:
In today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tfl-overground


I'm in little doubt these transfers will be success stories - the
to-be-Crossrail Shenfield route is inevitable, but I'm thinking
particularly of the West Anglia metro routes.

It might not be quite the 'immediate overnight success story' that the
NLL transfer was - I think in significant part the immediate passenger
figure jump on the NLL was down to lots of existing users actually
starting to pay their fares! But since then the numbers have of course
continued to rise considerably.

Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

Many of the same factors should apply: much better revenue protection,
safer stations encouraging more off-peak travel, cleaner (if not yet newer)
trains more inviting, etc.

Overground article
 

On 29/05/2015 16:04, Recliner wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
On 29/05/2015 13:18, eastender wrote:
In today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tfl-overground

I'm in little doubt these transfers will be success stories - the
to-be-Crossrail Shenfield route is inevitable, but I'm thinking
particularly of the West Anglia metro routes.

It might not be quite the 'immediate overnight success story' that the
NLL transfer was - I think in significant part the immediate passenger
figure jump on the NLL was down to lots of existing users actually
starting to pay their fares! But since then the numbers have of course
continued to rise considerably.

Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

Many of the same factors should apply: much better revenue protection,
safer stations encouraging more off-peak travel, cleaner (if not yet newer)
trains more inviting, etc.


Agreed. My feeling is that it might take a bit longer for (real)
patronage to grow (thinking more of the WA routes here). Despite -
rather than because of - Silverlink and their minimal efforts (arguably
in large part structural), the NLL - and the WLL - were increasingly
popular routes before the LO takeover. People were using it despite the
wholly decrepit nature of it all.

Overground article
 

Mizter T wrote:
It might not be quite the 'immediate overnight success story' that the
NLL transfer was - I think in significant part the immediate passenger
figure jump on the NLL was down to lots of existing users actually
starting to pay their fares!

Yes! I have fond memories of the number of people making u-turns with
grumpy faces on the rare days tickets were being checked - fond as the
chances of a seat were much higher.

But since then the numbers have of course
continued to rise considerably.

Population growth must have helped: 20 to 30 percent growth since 2007
in several East London boroughs.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Overground article
 

On 29.05.15 15:59, Mizter T wrote:

On 29/05/2015 13:18, eastender wrote:
In today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tfl-overground



I'm in little doubt these transfers will be success stories - the
to-be-Crossrail Shenfield route is inevitable, but I'm thinking
particularly of the West Anglia metro routes.

It might not be quite the 'immediate overnight success story' that the
NLL transfer was - I think in significant part the immediate passenger
figure jump on the NLL was down to lots of existing users actually
starting to pay their fares! But since then the numbers have of course
continued to rise considerably.

Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

I hope that they do last a while. The amount of changes in TOCs on the
Lea Valley Lines has made me lose track.

It reminds me of an episode of the U.S. animated sitcom "The Simpsons,"
called "Blame it on Lisa."

The Simpson family had received an unexpectedly large phone bill, and
Marge said that she would go staighten it out at the phone company's
office.

Find the dialogue below, which I think is quite apt when discussing TOCs
on LVL.

"We'll just go down to the phone company and straighten it out."

Which phone company? There are hundreds of them.

"And they all keep changing their names."

"I think we're with Comquaaq."

"No, I think its Niagular."

"No, last week they became Vertiqual."

Overground article
 

On 29.05.15 15:59, Mizter T wrote:

On 29/05/2015 13:18, eastender wrote:
In today's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...tfl-overground



I'm in little doubt these transfers will be success stories - the
to-be-Crossrail Shenfield route is inevitable, but I'm thinking
particularly of the West Anglia metro routes.

It might not be quite the 'immediate overnight success story' that the
NLL transfer was - I think in significant part the immediate passenger
figure jump on the NLL was down to lots of existing users actually
starting to pay their fares! But since then the numbers have of course
continued to rise considerably.

Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

Overground article
 

In article , () wrote:

On 29.05.15 15:59, Mizter T wrote:

On 29/05/2015 13:18, eastender wrote:
In today's Guardian:


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...ervices-london
-tfl-overground



I'm in little doubt these transfers will be success stories - the
to-be-Crossrail Shenfield route is inevitable, but I'm thinking
particularly of the West Anglia metro routes.

It might not be quite the 'immediate overnight success story' that the
NLL transfer was - I think in significant part the immediate passenger
figure jump on the NLL was down to lots of existing users actually
starting to pay their fares! But since then the numbers have of course
continued to rise considerably.

Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia
continue to hold that concession?

Th services that go beyond the Oyster zones will stay with Greater Anglia.
That includes the Lea Valley line via Tottenham Hale and a few services via
the Southbury loop.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overground article
 

On 29/05/2015 19:29, wrote:

On 29.05.15 15:59, Mizter T wrote:
[snip]
Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

I hope that they do last a while. The amount of changes in TOCs on the
Lea Valley Lines has made me lose track.

The devolution of responsibility for these routes to TfL is essentially
permanent (or at least for the foreseeable future).

TfL can change the concessionaire chosen to run the routes though, but
the public face of the service wouldn't change (think DLR - was operated
by Serco until December 2014, now it's run by Keolis/Amey).

The West Anglia metro routes are being rolled into the overall London
Overground concession operated by LOROL, which after an extension now
lasts until November 2016. They might well win a new contract to
continue operating it of course.

Not sure when MTR Crossrail's concession lasts until.

Overground article
 

On 30.05.15 0:12, Mizter T wrote:

On 29/05/2015 19:29, wrote:

On 29.05.15 15:59, Mizter T wrote:
[snip]
Good luck to TfL Rail, LOROL and MTR Crossrail.

I hope that they do last a while. The amount of changes in TOCs on the
Lea Valley Lines has made me lose track.

The devolution of responsibility for these routes to TfL is essentially
permanent (or at least for the foreseeable future).

TfL can change the concessionaire chosen to run the routes though, but
the public face of the service wouldn't change (think DLR - was operated
by Serco until December 2014, now it's run by Keolis/Amey).

The West Anglia metro routes are being rolled into the overall London
Overground concession operated by LOROL, which after an extension now
lasts until November 2016. They might well win a new contract to
continue operating it of course.

It almost reminds me of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority in New
York City or RATP in Paris.

Overground article
 

On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

So, then, will TfL trains be operating to Enfield Town, Chingford and
Cheshunt, the latter of which would be via the lock?

I guess that TfL will also operate out to Chingford, though not fast
services?

Overground article
 

In message , at 00:12:24 on Sat, 30 May
2015, Mizter T remarked:

Not sure when MTR Crossrail's concession lasts until.

It's eight years, starting tomorrow with the Shenfield (aka TfL Rail)
services. The first ones to be branded Crossrail will be running from
May 2018 and the full route won't start until "late 2019", so that's
four years of introductory work and just four years with the finished
product.
--
Roland Perry

Overground article
 

On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Overground article
 

On 2015\05\29 19:29, wrote:

I hope that they do last a while. The amount of changes in TOCs on the
Lea Valley Lines has made me lose track.

It's made quite a few people lose trains, but I didn't think it had made
anyone lose track.

Overground article
 

On 30/05/2015 00:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

Arguably airports are the business and leisure gateway to London for
foreigners and hence having their links to London integrated with the
London area transport is a little more than zero logic I'd have thought?
Ditto of course for London based business and leisure travellers
leaving the capital.

It may also bring the prices down....

Overground article
 

On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 12:12:27 AM UTC+1, Mizter T wrote:
Not sure when MTR Crossrail's concession lasts until.

Sometime in 2023 http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/operators/franchises.shtm.

PhilD

--

Overground article
 

" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.

Overground article
 

On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.


I see.

So, AIUI, TfL Rail will at this point operate local services out to
Shenfield.

Will it not, however, operate local services on the Lea Valley Lines out
to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt, the latter destination being via
Southbury?

Will it

Overground article
 

On 31.05.15 0:13, wrote:
On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia
continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.


I see.

So, AIUI, TfL Rail will at this point operate local services out to
Shenfield.

Will it not, however, operate local services on the Lea Valley Lines out
to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt, the latter destination being via
Southbury?

Will it


I guess not. I thought that TfL trains would also operate via Hackney
Downs to further down destinations.

Overground article
 

On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.

What about the 345s?

Overground article
 

" wrote:
On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.


I see.

So, AIUI, TfL Rail will at this point operate local services out to Shenfield.

Yes. It's a temporary place-holder brand on the existing trains, to be
replaced by the Crossrail brand on the new 335 stock trains when there is a
Crossrail.


Will it not, however, operate local services on the Lea Valley Lines out
to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt, the latter destination being via Southbury?

No, those services are now and in the future, Overground.

See
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube

Overground article
 

" wrote:
On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.

What about the 345s?

No, but might be a shorter variant of the Aventra if Bombardier wins the
order. But the preferred bidder hasn't been chosen yet.

Overground article
 

In article , () wrote:

On 31.05.15 0:13, wrote:
On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia
continue to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with
newer rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring
in something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany?
(Not like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way
:))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.

I see.

So, AIUI, TfL Rail will at this point operate local services out to
Shenfield.

Will it not, however, operate local services on the Lea Valley Lines out
to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt, the latter destination being via
Southbury?

Will it

I guess not. I thought that TfL trains would also operate via Hackney
Downs to further down destinations.

No. The routes to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt via Southbury and Romford
to Upminster will become part of London Overground. The Lea Valley will
remain with Abellio Greater Anglia.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overground article
 

On 31.05.15 0:27, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 30.05.15 0:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

No TfL will not operate any medium or long distance services nor any
that run via Tottenham Hale. They all remain with Abellio Greater
Anglia. Some peak hour services from Hertford East, run by AGA, will
continue to run semi fast via Seven Sisters. This is why Edmonton
Green, Seven Sisters and Hackney Downs retain the NR double arrow
simple on the new style Tube Map that is valid from Sunday. The semi
fasts stop at those London area stations.

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.

One other thing: AIUI, TfL plans to replace the 315s and 317s with newer
rolling stock. Will those be the 378s or will they perhaps bring in
something reminiscent of the S-Bahns that one might see in Germany? (Not
like the ones on East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn, by the way :))

Not 378s, but something newer, not yet selected.


I see.

So, AIUI, TfL Rail will at this point operate local services out to Shenfield.

Yes. It's a temporary place-holder brand on the existing trains, to be
replaced by the Crossrail brand on the new 335 stock trains when there is a
Crossrail.


Will it not, however, operate local services on the Lea Valley Lines out
to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt, the latter destination being via Southbury?

No, those services are now and in the future, Overground.

See
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube

Now I understand. Many thanks for that, Recliner.

Overground article
 

In article

rg, (Recliner) wrote:

" wrote:
On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:

So, AIUI, TfL Rail will at this point operate local services out to
Shenfield.

Yes. It's a temporary place-holder brand on the existing trains, to be
replaced by the Crossrail brand on the new 335 stock trains when there is
a Crossrail.

345s, surely?

Will it not, however, operate local services on the Lea Valley Lines out
to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt, the latter destination being
via Southbury?

No, those services are now and in the future, Overground.

See
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overground article
 

wrote:
In article

, (Recliner) wrote:

" wrote:
On 30.05.15 23:22, Recliner wrote:

So, AIUI, TfL Rail will at this point operate local services out to
Shenfield.

Yes. It's a temporary place-holder brand on the existing trains, to be
replaced by the Crossrail brand on the new 335 stock trains when there is
a Crossrail.

345s, surely?

Yes, of course.

Overground article
 

In message , at 10:41:19 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Stansted is really
outside TfL's influence and, to be honest, I don't think TfL should be
faffing around trying to run longer distance trains. There's more than
enough for them to fix within Greater London.

Why is there talk about extending Oyster to Luton and Gatwick airports
then? It makes no sense to do those two and not Stansted.

It is, after all, "London's third airport", which Luton isn't.
--
Roland Perry

Overground article
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:41:19 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Stansted is really
outside TfL's influence and, to be honest, I don't think TfL should be
faffing around trying to run longer distance trains. There's more than
enough for them to fix within Greater London.

Why is there talk about extending Oyster to Luton and Gatwick airports
then? It makes no sense to do those two and not Stansted.

It is, after all, "London's third airport", which Luton isn't.

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains? I think a
lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were required. It
would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards if they already
came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey to London plus some
more travelling in London.

Overground article
 

On 31/05/2015 10:41, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2015 11:51:18 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 30/05/2015 00:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.


It may also bring the prices down....

It would not do so because TfL are now tied into a process of
requiring DfT consent to changing fares on NR routes that are devolved
to TfL. They are not permitted to undercut parallel TOC services. This
is all set out in a recent TfL Fares Advice paper to the Mayor. There
are also similar provisions in the Crossrail Agreement but the DfT
have carefully ensured those clauses are redacted in the publicly
available version of the agreement. I only know they apply to
Crossrail because what TfL said in the Fares Advice Paper. Anyone
expecting a cheap fares bonanza if TfL take over their rail services
is going to be disappointed.

Soooo.... does that imply that Crossrail fares to e.g. Heathrow are
going to be set at a rail rate (presumably Connect rather than Express)
rather than at Tube rate, ie the Piccadilly line?

Overground article
 

On 31/05/2015 11:07, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:41:19 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Stansted is really
outside TfL's influence and, to be honest, I don't think TfL should be
faffing around trying to run longer distance trains. There's more than
enough for them to fix within Greater London.

Why is there talk about extending Oyster to Luton and Gatwick airports
then? It makes no sense to do those two and not Stansted.

It is, after all, "London's third airport", which Luton isn't.

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains? I think a
lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were required. It
would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards if they already
came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey to London plus some
more travelling in London.

Agreed, and I fail to see why such things aren't part of some kind of
Mayoral traffic management policy as well - if people are encouraged to
get the trains there's less coaches etc entering London and clogging up
the roads (yes, I know there really aren't that many, but they're pretty
noticeable and as Tesco advertise, "Every little helps")

Overground article
 

Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 31/05/2015 10:41, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2015 11:51:18 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 30/05/2015 00:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia continue
to hold that concession?

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.


It may also bring the prices down....

It would not do so because TfL are now tied into a process of
requiring DfT consent to changing fares on NR routes that are devolved
to TfL. They are not permitted to undercut parallel TOC services. This
is all set out in a recent TfL Fares Advice paper to the Mayor. There
are also similar provisions in the Crossrail Agreement but the DfT
have carefully ensured those clauses are redacted in the publicly
available version of the agreement. I only know they apply to
Crossrail because what TfL said in the Fares Advice Paper. Anyone
expecting a cheap fares bonanza if TfL take over their rail services
is going to be disappointed.

Soooo.... does that imply that Crossrail fares to e.g. Heathrow are going
to be set at a rail rate (presumably Connect rather than Express) rather
than at Tube rate, ie the Piccadilly line?

Yes, I think so. The Heathrow tunnel is owned by HAL, who want to make sure
that HEx isn't undercut too much, particularly as Crossrail will also have
4tph, like HEx. Crossrail will be a bit slower, and the trains less swish,
but with the same frequency, and a much more useful range of destinations,
the majority of pax are likely to prefer it.

I just hope the official HEx ticket touts don't steer too many people on to
the more expensive, less useful service first. If they don't know to look
for it, visitors arriving at Heathrow T5 wouldn't see a Tube sign before
being sold a HEx ticket.

Overground article
 

In message
-septem
ber.org, at 10:07:38 on Sun, 31 May 2015, Recliner
remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:41:19 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
Stansted is really
outside TfL's influence and, to be honest, I don't think TfL should be
faffing around trying to run longer distance trains. There's more than
enough for them to fix within Greater London.

Why is there talk about extending Oyster to Luton and Gatwick airports
then? It makes no sense to do those two and not Stansted.

It is, after all, "London's third airport", which Luton isn't.

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are a
bit of a mystery.
--
Roland Perry

Overground article
 

In message , at 11:38:15 on
Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse them).
--
Roland Perry

Overground article
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 31/05/2015 10:41, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2015 11:51:18 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 30/05/2015 00:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 29 May 2015 19:33:54 +0100, "
wrote:

Will TfL also operate the Stansted Express, BTW, or will Abelia
continue
to hold that concession?

There is zero logic in TfL having any involvement in express services
to Stansted.


It may also bring the prices down....

It would not do so because TfL are now tied into a process of
requiring DfT consent to changing fares on NR routes that are devolved
to TfL. They are not permitted to undercut parallel TOC services. This
is all set out in a recent TfL Fares Advice paper to the Mayor. There
are also similar provisions in the Crossrail Agreement but the DfT
have carefully ensured those clauses are redacted in the publicly
available version of the agreement. I only know they apply to
Crossrail because what TfL said in the Fares Advice Paper. Anyone
expecting a cheap fares bonanza if TfL take over their rail services
is going to be disappointed.

Soooo.... does that imply that Crossrail fares to e.g. Heathrow are going
to be set at a rail rate (presumably Connect rather than Express) rather
than at Tube rate, ie the Piccadilly line?

Yes, I think so. The Heathrow tunnel is owned by HAL, who want to make
sure
that HEx isn't undercut too much, particularly as Crossrail will also have
4tph, like HEx. Crossrail will be a bit slower, and the trains less swish,
but with the same frequency, and a much more useful range of destinations,
the majority of pax are likely to prefer it.

I just hope the official HEx ticket touts don't steer too many people on
to
the more expensive, less useful service first.

The Viennese manage this quite successfully, perhaps they should send all
their staff there for lessons :-)

tim

Overground article
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:38:15
on Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse
them).

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overground article
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message

-september.
org, at 10:07:38 on Sun, 31 May 2015, Recliner
remarked:

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are
a bit of a mystery.

Remind us how much credit is included?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Overground article
 

On 2015\05\31 17:13, wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at 11:38:15
on Sun, 31 May 2015, Paul Corfield remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse
them).

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

I've never heard any suggestion that HEx will extend past Paddington.
Every Crossrail map in years has shown service to T4, not T5.

Overground article
 

wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message

-september.
org, at 10:07:38 on Sun, 31 May 2015, Recliner
remarked:

Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are
a bit of a mystery.

Remind us how much credit is included?

you chose an amount starting from 10.00

Of course that was decided before the decision was taken to accept Oyster at
Gatwick so seems more than enough

Overground article
 

In message , at 11:13:01
on Sun, 31 May 2015, remarked:
Surely it's worth having it on Oyster, whoever runs the trains?

Yes, although AGA is only committed to rolling out ITSO (as far as I
know).

Are they even committed to that in this franchise? AFAIK only GTR are
committed to ITSO at Cambridge.

http://www.itso.org.uk/wp-content/up...s-Sep-2013.pdf

Map on page 2.

I think a lot more Londoners would use it if no separate tickets were
required. It would also be easier to sell pre-paid Visitor Oyster cards
if they already came loaded with enough credit to pay for the journey
to London plus some more travelling in London.

I agree, the visitor cards with not enough credit on to be useful are
a bit of a mystery.

Remind us how much credit is included?

£3 and no deposit, so enough to make one single journey, and top it up
when you want to make a seconds - which makes some sense because it
moves the queues away from the terminus stations.
--
Roland Perry

Overground article
 

In message , at 17:42:44 on Sun, 31 May
2015, Basil Jet remarked:
If you were HAL you would have wanted guarantees about the revenue due
to you so you could pay off the debt incurred in constructing the
tunnels into Heathrow. I believe the agreement runs to 2023 when the
debt should be clear. Goodness knows what happens then.

I suspect that Heathrow will come properly "into the Zones", but HEx
will be allowed to run trains through the core, at least as far as
docklands (or Stratford if that's a more logical place to reverse
them).

Will the Crossrail layout cater for reversals at Stratford?

I've never heard any suggestion that HEx will extend past Paddington.
Every Crossrail map in years has shown service to T4, not T5.

We aren't talking about Crossrail - this is HEx services after 2023.
--
Roland Perry