Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

I was reading an edition of "London's Underground" (1) from the
mid-1960s, and it mentions three extension proposals that were ongoing
at the time. Two of these - the Victoria extension to Brixton and the
Fleet Line - went ahead (although of course the plans for the Fleet
Line changed greatly over the successive years).

The third was extending the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly through
to Waterloo. I was aware that this had been considered as it's been
mentioned here before, and on a couple of websites, including CULG.

But what I didn't know is that, according to this book, the necessary
'powers have been granted'. That implies planning got to a rather
advanced stage. So my question : is that really the case, and what
happened that brought things to a halt?

Sam

(1) Don't have the book to hand so can't give accurate title, author
or publication date, but I can do so at a later stage if it's of help.
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

Sam Holloway wrote in message . ..
The third was extending the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly through
to Waterloo. I was aware that this had been considered as it's been
mentioned here before, and on a couple of websites, including CULG.

But what I didn't know is that, according to this book, the necessary
'powers have been granted'. That implies planning got to a rather
advanced stage. So my question : is that really the case, and what
happened that brought things to a halt?

On a related theme , does anyone know how far the running tunnels extend south
of aldwych? Do they reach the river?

B2003

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

In message , Boltar
writes

On a related theme , does anyone know how far the running tunnels extend south
of aldwych?

Only as far as the station itself (on the corner of the Strand and
Surrey Street) as far as I recall.

Do they reach the river?

No, I don't think there was any concept of an overrun tunnel when the
line was built - it just stopped at (or within a few feet of) the
platform end.

--
Paul Terry

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
om...
Sam Holloway wrote in message
. ..
The third was extending the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly through
to Waterloo. I was aware that this had been considered as it's been
mentioned here before, and on a couple of websites, including CULG.

But what I didn't know is that, according to this book, the necessary
'powers have been granted'. That implies planning got to a rather
advanced stage. So my question : is that really the case, and what
happened that brought things to a halt?

On a related theme , does anyone know how far the running tunnels extend
south
of aldwych? Do they reach the river?

B2003

No they don't. They go less than 10 metres past the end of the platform,
which means they must be at least 100metres from the Thames Embankment.

Colin

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

Sam Holloway wrote in message . ..
I was reading an edition of "London's Underground" (1) from the
mid-1960s, and it mentions three extension proposals that were ongoing
at the time. Two of these - the Victoria extension to Brixton and the
Fleet Line - went ahead (although of course the plans for the Fleet
Line changed greatly over the successive years).

The third was extending the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly through
to Waterloo. I was aware that this had been considered as it's been
mentioned here before, and on a couple of websites, including CULG.

But what I didn't know is that, according to this book, the necessary
'powers have been granted'. That implies planning got to a rather
advanced stage. So my question : is that really the case, and what
happened that brought things to a halt?

Sam

Have you tried approaching the LT museum in Covent Garden?


Alex

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"Sam Holloway" wrote in message
...
I was reading an edition of "London's Underground" (1) from the
mid-1960s, and it mentions three extension proposals that were ongoing
at the time. Two of these - the Victoria extension to Brixton and the
Fleet Line - went ahead (although of course the plans for the Fleet
Line changed greatly over the successive years).

The third was extending the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly through
to Waterloo. I was aware that this had been considered as it's been
mentioned here before, and on a couple of websites, including CULG.

But what I didn't know is that, according to this book, the necessary
'powers have been granted'. That implies planning got to a rather
advanced stage. So my question : is that really the case, and what
happened that brought things to a halt?

Sam

(1) Don't have the book to hand so can't give accurate title, author
or publication date, but I can do so at a later stage if it's of help.
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge


It's a shame the Holborn-Aldwych shuttle wasn't extended to Waterloo, that
would have made a lot of sense..........

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

Have you tried approaching the LT museum in Covent Garden?

They're very approachable. I asked them a while back about a spiral-
escalator that I saw as little more than a footnote in my various texts,
and they had some background research and directions to the site where the
few remaining parts existed by the time I was done getting the kids'
station-card punched throughout the exhibit. Great people.

--
http://mattdrury.net/travel (since 1984)

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"Colin" wrote in message
...

On a related theme , does anyone know how far the running tunnels
extend
south
of aldwych? Do they reach the river?

B2003

No they don't. They go less than 10 metres past the end of the platform,
which means they must be at least 100metres from the Thames Embankment.

On a slightly different tangent however, the overrun tunnels east of Charing
Cross on the Jubilee Line do almost reach Aldwych, indicating one
possibility that was considered at one time. I don't know whether the track
runs the entire length though, or what lurks at the very end (parts of the
TBM I expect).

Regards
John M Upton

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"Matt Drury" wrote in message
. 138.161...
Have you tried approaching the LT museum in Covent Garden?

They're very approachable. I asked them a while back about a spiral-
escalator that I saw as little more than a footnote in my various texts,
and they had some background research and directions to the site where the
few remaining parts existed by the time I was done getting the kids'
station-card punched throughout the exhibit. Great people.

The remains of the spiral escalator from Holloway Road are at Acton
Museum Depot..


Robin

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"jmu2000" security novels @ free uk.com wrote in message ...
"Colin" wrote in message
...

On a related theme , does anyone know how far the running tunnels
extend
south
of aldwych? Do they reach the river?

B2003

No they don't. They go less than 10 metres past the end of the platform,
which means they must be at least 100metres from the Thames Embankment.

On a slightly different tangent however, the overrun tunnels east of Charing
Cross on the Jubilee Line do almost reach Aldwych, indicating one
possibility that was considered at one time. I don't know whether the track
runs the entire length though, or what lurks at the very end (parts of the
TBM I expect).

I've often wondered if trains ever run down these long overrun tunnels around
the system just to test the track and make sure everything works. Does anyone
at all ever go down them, inspection teams or the like?

B2003

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

The remains of the spiral escalator from Holloway Road are at Acton
Museum Depot..

That's the name of the place they gave me. Thanks.

--
http://mattdrury.net/travel (since 1984)

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

On a related theme, I rememer reading that the Fleet line tunnels extended
as far as Wellington Street, which is where the Lyceem theatre stands, IE
just west of the Aldwich.

David

"Sam Holloway" wrote in message
...
I was reading an edition of "London's Underground" (1) from the
mid-1960s, and it mentions three extension proposals that were ongoing
at the time. Two of these - the Victoria extension to Brixton and the
Fleet Line - went ahead (although of course the plans for the Fleet
Line changed greatly over the successive years).

The third was extending the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly through
to Waterloo. I was aware that this had been considered as it's been
mentioned here before, and on a couple of websites, including CULG.

But what I didn't know is that, according to this book, the necessary
'powers have been granted'. That implies planning got to a rather
advanced stage. So my question : is that really the case, and what
happened that brought things to a halt?

Sam

(1) Don't have the book to hand so can't give accurate title, author
or publication date, but I can do so at a later stage if it's of help.
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"jmu2000" security novels @ free uk.com wrote in message ...
"Colin" wrote in message
...

On a related theme , does anyone know how far the running tunnels
extend
south
of aldwych? Do they reach the river?

B2003

No they don't. They go less than 10 metres past the end of the platform,
which means they must be at least 100metres from the Thames Embankment.

On a slightly different tangent however, the overrun tunnels east of Charing
Cross on the Jubilee Line do almost reach Aldwych, indicating one
possibility that was considered at one time. I don't know whether the track
runs the entire length though, or what lurks at the very end (parts of the
TBM I expect).

Regards
John M Upton
I'm not sure if the Charing Cross overruns are fully tracked or not.
I'm fairly sure they aren't track circuited for their whole length,
and I seem to recall one of the signal operations managers saying the
track wasn't laid for the whole distance.

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"Davey" wrote in message ...
On a related theme, I rememer reading that the Fleet line tunnels extended
as far as Wellington Street, which is where the Lyceem theatre stands, IE
just west of the Aldwich.

David

Your post brings up an interesting point: if the Jubilee Line had not
gone to Stratford and instead had continued to pass through Charing
Cross and through Aldywch, where would it have gone?

Bank? Moorgate? Highbury and Islington? Would it have run all the way
out to Blackhorse Road and beyond?

Brad

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

Robin May wrote in message . 1.4...
(TheOneKEA) wrote the following in:
m

"Davey" wrote in message
...
On a related theme, I rememer reading that the Fleet line tunnels
extended as far as Wellington Street, which is where the Lyceem
theatre stands, IE just west of the Aldwich.

David

Your post brings up an interesting point: if the Jubilee Line had
not gone to Stratford and instead had continued to pass through
Charing Cross and through Aldywch, where would it have gone?

Bank? Moorgate? Highbury and Islington? Would it have run all the
way out to Blackhorse Road and beyond?

That wouldn't be all that helpful though, or so I'd have thought. It
would just be like a sort of Victoria line mkII.

But where would it have gone?

Brad

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...
Robin May wrote in message
. 1.4...
(TheOneKEA) wrote the following in:
m

"Davey" wrote in message
...
On a related theme, I rememer reading that the Fleet line tunnels
extended as far as Wellington Street, which is where the Lyceem
theatre stands, IE just west of the Aldwich.

David

Your post brings up an interesting point: if the Jubilee Line had
not gone to Stratford and instead had continued to pass through
Charing Cross and through Aldywch, where would it have gone?

Bank? Moorgate? Highbury and Islington? Would it have run all the
way out to Blackhorse Road and beyond?

That wouldn't be all that helpful though, or so I'd have thought. It
would just be like a sort of Victoria line mkII.

But where would it have gone?

Brad

Here's a link to an earlier post on the topic by Clive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ju...london&safe=of
f&selm=a6kwmNKg6xN4Ewhj%40romana.davros.org&rnum =1

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

On 21 Feb 2004 12:23:31 -0800, (TheOneKEA) wrote:

"Davey" wrote in message ...
On a related theme, I rememer reading that the Fleet line tunnels extended
as far as Wellington Street, which is where the Lyceem theatre stands, IE
just west of the Aldwich.

David

Your post brings up an interesting point: if the Jubilee Line had not
gone to Stratford and instead had continued to pass through Charing
Cross and through Aldywch, where would it have gone?

The same book I referenced actually has a rough map of the planned
Fleet Line. Charing Cross, Aldwych, Ludgate Circus then over towards
the East London Line and down to Lewisham via New Cross and New Cross
Gate. (I'm sure this has been covered many times before, so consult
Google Groups for further info.)

Sam
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, juvenal wrote:


"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...
Robin May wrote in message
. 1.4...
(TheOneKEA) wrote the following in:
m

"Davey" wrote in message
...
On a related theme, I rememer reading that the Fleet line tunnels
extended as far as Wellington Street, which is where the Lyceem
theatre stands, IE just west of the Aldwich.

Your post brings up an interesting point: if the Jubilee Line had
not gone to Stratford and instead had continued to pass through
Charing Cross and through Aldywch, where would it have gone?

Bank? Moorgate? Highbury and Islington? Would it have run all the
way out to Blackhorse Road and beyond?

That wouldn't be all that helpful though, or so I'd have thought. It
would just be like a sort of Victoria line mkII.

But where would it have gone?

Here's a link to an earlier post on the topic by Clive:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ju...london&safe=of
f&selm=a6kwmNKg6xN4Ewhj%40romana.davros.org&rnum =1

or, more shortly:

http://babyurl.com/bwGlFu

tom

--
Exceptions say, there was a problem. Someone must deal with it. If you won't deal with it, I'll find someone who will.

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

I think the fact that the Aldwych - Holborn shuttle service was so under
used was the reason for any extension being killed off early on. The
shuttle is actually 2 lines but one was shut down early on in its life and
the service became a single line service from there on. LU may have had
plans to use the tunnels and track as part of a greater plan, but so far
this hasn't happened, but who knows what tomorrow may bring.

Bakerloo BadBoy


"Sam Holloway" wrote in message
...
I was reading an edition of "London's Underground" (1) from the
mid-1960s, and it mentions three extension proposals that were ongoing
at the time. Two of these - the Victoria extension to Brixton and the
Fleet Line - went ahead (although of course the plans for the Fleet
Line changed greatly over the successive years).

The third was extending the Aldwych branch of the Piccadilly through
to Waterloo. I was aware that this had been considered as it's been
mentioned here before, and on a couple of websites, including CULG.

But what I didn't know is that, according to this book, the necessary
'powers have been granted'. That implies planning got to a rather
advanced stage. So my question : is that really the case, and what
happened that brought things to a halt?

Sam

(1) Don't have the book to hand so can't give accurate title, author
or publication date, but I can do so at a later stage if it's of help.
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge

Aldwych : Proposals in the 60s
 

"Just me and the world" wrote in message ...
I think the fact that the Aldwych - Holborn shuttle service was so under
used was the reason for any extension being killed off early on. The
shuttle is actually 2 lines but one was shut down early on in its life and
the service became a single line service from there on. LU may have had
plans to use the tunnels and track as part of a greater plan, but so far
this hasn't happened, but who knows what tomorrow may bring.

Bakerloo BadBoy

I remember reading in one of the innumerable books at Museum that the
Aldwych extension would never had existed if the consortium
responsible for building the Holborn - Finsbury Park stretch of the
GNP&BR could have gotten out of it. IIRC it was implied that it was
deliberately obfuscated at the Holborn end to try to provide excuses
for construction of it to stop.

If there had been a proper branch connection at Holborn, would Aldwych
have been more useful?

Brad

P.S: Needs less top-posting in u.t.l.