Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

wrote:
In article

, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article




, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 09:08:49 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
I suspect that the costs of using a non-standard gauge come from all
the non-standard parts and manufacturing, and 9.5 inches doesn't
really seem worth the aggravation (Japanese services around Tokyo
run perfectly happily on 3'6", after all).

Yes, indeed. In any case, no metro system needs wider than standard
gauge tracks. Narrow gauge, as in Japan, might be better, in fact, if
the tracks have tight curves. Many Continental tram systems are metre
gauge for that reason. In fact, I wonder why the DLR wasn't?

A good question. Did it re-use any track on the former BR route it
took over going up to Stratford? Or maybe it was cheaper to buy
standard gauge kit.

I don't think the original DLR took over any existing track, but the
later Canning Town to Stratford section may have used some of the old
NLL tracks between the new stations. But that wouldn't have affected
the original decision to use standard rather than metre gauge.

Given its twisty, highly graded route, and modest speeds, metre gauge
tracks might well have been more appropriate. There are plenty of metre
gauge railways and tramways in Europe and Asia, so standard kit should
readily be available.

There are no metre gauge railways of any significance in this
country. The DLR uses lots of docklands abandoned railway viaducts
so it was presumably thought to be simpler to stick to standard
gauge which seems to handle the curves without problems.

The tight curves aren't on the old railway alignments. They are on the
all-new sections, or corner links between old alignments.

Look for example at the complex of tracks at West India Quay or either
side of South Quay.

Indeed they are but they work perfectly well with standard gauge so why
introduce a narrow gauge not used elsewhere in this country?

The DLR trains aren't built in the UK and aren't related to any UK systems.
The DLR is, in effect, a European light railway that happens to be in
London. It uses a third rail system that's unique in the UK, and was the
first to use each of its signalling systems in the UK. It remains the only
driverless network in the UK, and its vehicles never run on any tracks but
their own.

So why would it matter if it also had a different gauge?

And what maximum speeds could be obtained on narrower gauge?
I'm fairly sure it would be lower.

Much higher than than the DLR's modest maximum speed of 40mph. DLR trains
are essentially high-floor urban trams that don't go as fast as many trams,
which typically have a 50mph max.

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

In message
-septemb
er.org, Recliner wrote:
A good question. Did it re-use any track on the former BR route it took over
going up to Stratford? Or maybe it was cheaper to buy standard gauge kit.

I don't think the original DLR took over any existing track,

I thought Poplar to Bow took over the original track. But it might well
have been ripped out and re-laid; that's not a major expense in the
scale of things. Against that, the original DLR was done on the cheap,
so perhaps not.

In fact, it could have even re-used the LTSR tracks from Christian
Street Junction to wherever the 4-track used to end, apart from the
swerve on the Up line at Shadwell.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsingthe Scots?
 

On 29/07/2015 07:23, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In message
-septemb
er.org, Recliner wrote:
A good question. Did it re-use any track on the former BR route it
took over
going up to Stratford? Or maybe it was cheaper to buy standard gauge
kit.

I don't think the original DLR took over any existing track,

I thought Poplar to Bow took over the original track. But it might well
have been ripped out and re-laid; that's not a major expense in the
scale of things. Against that, the original DLR was done on the cheap,
so perhaps not.

In fact, it could have even re-used the LTSR tracks from Christian
Street Junction to wherever the 4-track used to end, apart from the
swerve on the Up line at Shadwell.


According to the original DLR handbook the railway did take over some
lengths of BR track, mainly that on the viaduct from just east of
Fenchurch Street to Shadwell.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:55:53 -0500
wrote:
There are no metre gauge railways of any significance in this country. The
DLR uses lots of docklands abandoned railway viaducts so it was presumably
thought to be simpler to stick to standard gauge which seems to handle the
curves without problems.

The trains handle the curves but they really don't sound happy about it
especially on the west india key to westferry curve. There's a huge amount of
squealing and shuddering even at single digit speeds. I suspect its really on
the limit of curve radius you can have with standard gauge track.

--
Spud

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 29/07/2015 07:23, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In message
-septemb
er.org, Recliner wrote:
A good question. Did it re-use any track on the former BR route it
took over
going up to Stratford? Or maybe it was cheaper to buy standard gauge
kit.

I don't think the original DLR took over any existing track,

I thought Poplar to Bow took over the original track. But it might well
have been ripped out and re-laid; that's not a major expense in the
scale of things. Against that, the original DLR was done on the cheap,
so perhaps not.

In fact, it could have even re-used the LTSR tracks from Christian
Street Junction to wherever the 4-track used to end, apart from the
swerve on the Up line at Shadwell.


According to the original DLR handbook the railway did take over some
lengths of BR track, mainly that on the viaduct from just east of
Fenchurch Street to Shadwell.

Perhaps that's the reason: the original DLR was built as cheaply as
possible, and being able to reuse existing track may have saved more money
than using an inherently cheaper narrow gauge.

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsingthe Scots?
 

On 29/07/2015 09:25, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 29/07/2015 07:23, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In message
-septemb
er.org, Recliner wrote:
A good question. Did it re-use any track on the former BR route it
took over
going up to Stratford? Or maybe it was cheaper to buy standard gauge
kit.

I don't think the original DLR took over any existing track,

I thought Poplar to Bow took over the original track. But it might well
have been ripped out and re-laid; that's not a major expense in the
scale of things. Against that, the original DLR was done on the cheap,
so perhaps not.

In fact, it could have even re-used the LTSR tracks from Christian
Street Junction to wherever the 4-track used to end, apart from the
swerve on the Up line at Shadwell.


According to the original DLR handbook the railway did take over some
lengths of BR track, mainly that on the viaduct from just east of
Fenchurch Street to Shadwell.

Perhaps that's the reason: the original DLR was built as cheaply as
possible, and being able to reuse existing track may have saved more money
than using an inherently cheaper narrow gauge.

Slightly off topic but if anyone is interested in metre gauge I can
thoroughly recommend the railways of Corsica - I think you could do the
entire network in a weekend by flying in Bastia on the Friday, doing
the Bastia to Calvi line on the Saturday and then Calvi to Ajaccio on
the Sunday before flying home. Lots of great curves, tunnels,
viaducts, changes of elevation and so on.

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 08:18:45 +0000 (UTC), y wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:55:53 -0500
wrote:
There are no metre gauge railways of any significance in this country. The
DLR uses lots of docklands abandoned railway viaducts so it was presumably
thought to be simpler to stick to standard gauge which seems to handle the
curves without problems.

The trains handle the curves but they really don't sound happy about it
especially on the west india key to westferry curve. There's a huge amount of
squealing and shuddering even at single digit speeds. I suspect its really on
the limit of curve radius you can have with standard gauge track.

I assume all that noise is a sign of excessive track and flange wear
on the wheels.

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

In message , Someone Somewhere
wrote:
Slightly off topic but if anyone is interested in metre gauge I can
thoroughly recommend the railways of Corsica

Speaking of which, can anyone advise on the railways (if any) of
Sardinia? Particularly at the southern end. Anything particularly worth
a ride if I can persuade SWMBO?

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

In article , y () wrote:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:55:53 -0500
wrote:
There are no metre gauge railways of any significance in this country.
The DLR uses lots of docklands abandoned railway viaducts so it was
presumably thought to be simpler to stick to standard gauge which seems
to handle the curves without problems.

The trains handle the curves but they really don't sound happy about it
especially on the west india key to westferry curve. There's a huge
amount of squealing and shuddering even at single digit speeds. I
suspect its really on the limit of curve radius you can have with
standard gauge track.

Metre gauge trains aren't immune to this problem either.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Scotland - England: West side or east side? And who's advsing the Scots?
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote:
In message , Someone Somewhere wrote:
Slightly off topic but if anyone is interested in metre gauge I can
thoroughly recommend the railways of Corsica

Speaking of which, can anyone advise on the railways (if any) of
Sardinia? Particularly at the southern end. Anything particularly worth a
ride if I can persuade SWMBO?

Here's some pics I took last year on an RTC tour. Be warned, however, that
the steam trains you see in these pics, and the more remote narrow gauge
lines are running on borrowed time. The scheduled rail cars don't cover
anything like the full network, and the vintage steam trains have to be
specially chartered. The lines are living off EU subsidies for deprived
areas as a way of promoting tourism.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7644394332828/