Northern Line future
 

Sorry to harp on about this, but has anyone heard anything further about the
Northern Line?

News on this subject seems to be getting rarer, like it's getting forgotten.
Is the Camden Town crossover going to be restored? Or is this the new format
for the Northern Line for the forseeable future?

Alan

Northern Line future
 

"Alan Ingham" wrote in message ...
Sorry to harp on about this, but has anyone heard anything further about the
Northern Line?

News on this subject seems to be getting rarer, like it's getting forgotten.
Is the Camden Town crossover going to be restored? Or is this the new format
for the Northern Line for the forseeable future?

Alan

I was on the Northern Line last week and I saw some posters stating
that normal timetabled services were back to normal EXCEPT for the
cross-services; i.e. High Barnet/MHE via Bank and Edgware via Charing
Cross. They cited continuing work on the track layout at Camden Town
as being responsible.

Brad

Northern Line future
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...
"Alan Ingham" wrote in message
...
Sorry to harp on about this, but has anyone heard anything further about
the
Northern Line?

News on this subject seems to be getting rarer, like it's getting
forgotten.
Is the Camden Town crossover going to be restored? Or is this the new
format
for the Northern Line for the forseeable future?

Alan

I was on the Northern Line last week and I saw some posters stating
that normal timetabled services were back to normal EXCEPT for the
cross-services; i.e. High Barnet/MHE via Bank and Edgware via Charing
Cross. They cited continuing work on the track layout at Camden Town
as being responsible.

Brad

Hi,

I am a driver on the Northern and before I went off on a two week vacation,
the *rumour* was that regular service to all Northern Line destinations via
both Bank and Charing Cross was being resumed on March 7. As I don't go back
there until Tuesday night I can't confirm this. I know this isn't exactly
concrete information, but that's the last I heard!!

Northern Line future
 

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:30:15 -0000, "Alan Ingham"
wrote:


Sorry to harp on about this, but has anyone heard anything further about the
Northern Line?

News on this subject seems to be getting rarer, like it's getting forgotten.
Is the Camden Town crossover going to be restored? Or is this the new format
for the Northern Line for the forseeable future?

There is a new timetable in place now that restores old service
frequencies but with the fixed service pattern.

The new crossover is in place but fixed out of use. The testing and
assurance process is being done now. I had to review documentation about
testing equipment today so testing work can occur tonight. There were
also tests last night. The intention is to ensure the new installation
is fully safe to brought into full "moving" service and that depends on
the results gathered from the tests. On the assumption everything gets
signed off then I understand there is a time period before the all
singing, all dancing service pattern can be brought back into use. I am
afraid I do not know how long that time period is. I can assure you
that a lot of work is being done to get the service restored.

Hope that helps.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Northern Line future
 

"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

I am a driver on the Northern

Ah, perhaps you can answer a question for me, Bradley. Why do trains
approach Clapham Common from Clapham South so slowly?

Thanks,

Ian

Northern Line future
 

Ah, perhaps you can answer a question for me, Bradley. Why do trains
approach Clapham Common from Clapham South so slowly?


SHARP BEND (watch the carriages in front turn right) as the train
approaches) thats if you are actually boarding at Clap South. If not then
you are seeing them arrive whilst part of the train is still "on the bend"
as it arrives in the platform.

Northern Line future
 

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

I am a driver on the Northern

Ah, perhaps you can answer a question for me, Bradley. Why do trains
approach Clapham Common from Clapham South so slowly?

Thanks,

Ian


Hi Ian,

There is a 15mph permanent speed restriction on the approach to Clapham
Common on the northbound track due to the tight bend just before the
platform.

Bradley.

Northern Line future
 

"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

Hi Ian,

There is a 15mph permanent speed restriction on the approach to Clapham
Common on the northbound track due to the tight bend just before the
platform.

That explains it. Thanks Bradley (and Roger).

Ian

Northern Line future
 

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

Hi Ian,

There is a 15mph permanent speed restriction on the approach to Clapham
Common on the northbound track due to the tight bend just before the
platform.

That explains it. Thanks Bradley (and Roger).

Ian

No problem Ian, you're more than welcome.

Anytime.

Bradley.

Northern Line future
 

"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

Anytime.

Right - you asked for it! ;-)

Why do the drivers of the train waiting on the northbound Charing Cross
platform always time it so that the minute the northbound City line train
arrives, they take off, leaving those of us changing lines to wait for the
next one? It's almost as though they do it on purpose - you should hear some
of the comments! Surely it can't hurt to wait and extra 30 seconds?

Ian

Oops - (was Northern Line future)
 

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

Why do the drivers of the train waiting on the northbound Charing Cross
platform

*At Kennington*...

Ian

Northern Line future
 

Ian F. wrote:
"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

Anytime.

Right - you asked for it! ;-)

Why do the drivers of the train waiting on the northbound Charing
Cross platform always time it so that the minute the northbound City
line train arrives, they take off, leaving those of us changing lines
to wait for the next one? It's almost as though they do it on purpose
- you should hear some of the comments! Surely it can't hurt to wait
and extra 30 seconds?

Well, yes, it *can* hurt. If you are running a service at 2-minute
intervals, then an extra 30 seconds means a 25% increase in headway,
which means a 25% increase in the number of passengers waiting at the
next station. At busy times, that will increase the dwell time at the
station, which then increases the number of passengers at subsequent
stations even further, which then increases the dwell time even further,
and so on. Are you seriously suggesting that you should get priority
over the many hundreds of passengers that would be delayed by holding
the trains especially for you?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Northern Line future
 

"Richard J." wrote in message
...

Well, yes, it *can* hurt. If you are running a service at 2-minute
intervals, then an extra 30 seconds means a 25% increase in headway,
which means a 25% increase in the number of passengers waiting at the
next station. At busy times, that will increase the dwell time at the
station, which then increases the number of passengers at subsequent
stations even further, which then increases the dwell time even further,
and so on. Are you seriously suggesting that you should get priority
over the many hundreds of passengers that would be delayed by holding
the trains especially for you?

I see your point, but it's just like it's done to annoy. Is it not possible
for the schedules be planned in such a way as to meet incoming City branch
trains - at least for the Charing Cross trains that actually start from
Kennington?

Ian

Northern Line future
 

In article ,
(Ian F.) wrote:

"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

Anytime.

Right - you asked for it! ;-)

Why do the drivers of the train waiting on the northbound Charing Cross
platform always time it so that the minute the northbound City line
train
arrives, they take off, leaving those of us changing lines to wait for
the
next one? It's almost as though they do it on purpose - you should hear
some
of the comments! Surely it can't hurt to wait and extra 30 seconds?

Ian


Drivers should always wait for connections, and that is what trainees are
taught. However, the driver doesn't always know a train is coming in on
the other platform (Stockwell SB is a good example of this). If the air
conditioning is on in the cab, that can tend to drown out the noise of an
approaching train and often the only indication a driver has is when he
sees the passengers crossing over. This is compounded at Stockwell because
the driver will often assume that any train noise he hears is the NB
Northern Line which is easily heard through the nearby cross passage. At
Kennington it is a bit easier to hear if there is an approaching train and
the 30-40 seconds can be easily made up.

I will normally wait if I know there is a train approaching at an
interchange station, and will always wait if I see passengers crossing
over. However, when there is a two minute service and I see on the
destination board that the train behind me is only a minute away, I will
not usually wait if the approaching train hasn't actually berthed in the
platform as, by the time the passengers start to get off and walk across,
I could have left and the train behind me started to come into the
platform. If i wait, I will be holding that train (and) others) in the
tunnel behind me.

Roger

Northern Line future
 

In article ,
(Ian F.) wrote:

"Richard J." wrote in message
...

Well, yes, it *can* hurt. If you are running a service at 2-minute
intervals, then an extra 30 seconds means a 25% increase in headway,
which means a 25% increase in the number of passengers waiting at the
next station. At busy times, that will increase the dwell time at the
station, which then increases the number of passengers at subsequent
stations even further, which then increases the dwell time even
further,
and so on. Are you seriously suggesting that you should get priority
over the many hundreds of passengers that would be delayed by holding
the trains especially for you?

I see your point, but it's just like it's done to annoy. Is it not
possible
for the schedules be planned in such a way as to meet incoming City
branch
trains - at least for the Charing Cross trains that actually start from
Kennington?

Ian


That would only work if the frequency was the same on both branches and
the service running normally.



Roger

Northern Line future
 

Northern Line future
 

wrote in message
...


snipsnippitysnipsnip

Thanks for the explanation, Roger, which is easy to understand for we
non-transporttechies and a breath of fresh air to everyone who, like me,
thinks that the majority of tube drivers don't give a monkey's about the
poor, miserable punters. Long may you drive!

Ian

Northern Line future
 

"Bradley H. Davis" wrote in message
.. .

I am a driver on the Northern and before I went off on a two week
vacation,
the *rumour* was that regular service to all Northern Line destinations
via
both Bank and Charing Cross was being resumed on March 7. As I don't go
back
there until Tuesday night I can't confirm this. I know this isn't exactly
concrete information, but that's the last I heard!!


Thanks Bradley. If you hear anything more, could you let us know?

Alan

Northern Line future
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
There is a new timetable in place now that restores old service
frequencies but with the fixed service pattern.

The new crossover is in place but fixed out of use. The testing and
assurance process is being done now. I had to review documentation about
testing equipment today so testing work can occur tonight. There were
also tests last night. The intention is to ensure the new installation
is fully safe to brought into full "moving" service and that depends on
the results gathered from the tests. On the assumption everything gets
signed off then I understand there is a time period before the all
singing, all dancing service pattern can be brought back into use. I am
afraid I do not know how long that time period is. I can assure you
that a lot of work is being done to get the service restored.

Hope that helps.
--
Paul C


Thanks Paul. Didn't realise LU staff read this group! I guess I just wanted
to know what the intention was as I'd heard "Ken had spoken" and said the
line was going to stay in its present state.

Alan

Northern Line future
 

In article ,
(Robin May) wrote:

wrote the following in:


I will normally wait if I know there is a train approaching at an
interchange station, and will always wait if I see passengers
crossing over. However, when there is a two minute service and I
see on the destination board that the train behind me is only a
minute away, I will not usually wait if the approaching train
hasn't actually berthed in the platform as, by the time the
passengers start to get off and walk across, I could have left and
the train behind me started to come into the platform. If i wait,
I will be holding that train (and) others) in the tunnel behind
me.

It's nice to know that there are people with such a well thought out
and considerate attitude to their work.


It isn't just me, I think you'll find that most drivers will do the same.
However, as with anything, you will always have the few people whose sole
purpose in life seems to be to deliberately annoy people. There is one bus
driver who deliberately stops in the wrong place at bus stops, another who
seems to take delight in stopping with the only set of doors directly
opposite the bus stop post to make it difficult to get on and off the bus.
But, again, it is only the odd one or two who do these things.

Roger

Northern Line future
 

Hi All,

I agree with Roger wholeheartedly with regards to the connection problems at
Kennington. I have to say that I usually also wait at Kennington for people
to run like mad from the other platform. It is annoying I know, I have the
same problem transferring from the Central to the District Line at Mile End
sometimes. The problem at Kennington as Roger explained is that sometimes
you just don't know there is a train approaching. Camden Town is also a
brilliant example of this. The regulator will hold you in the Northbound
Edgware platform for several minutes, then releases the signal when he
notices the High Barnet train has fully berthed in it's platform. The result
of course is that you shut the doors, and when you are halfway out the
platform you notice thousands of people rushing onto the platform waving
fists, brollies or anything else they can lay their hands on. I get just as
p***ed off because this makes us all look like a bunch of idiots.

As for the resumption of the "all routes all branches" service, I noticed on
the TfL website that the Northern Line will be ending at 22.30 on Tuesday
evening to allow for test train running. So it looks as if something is
moving towards full service. Maybe the rumour about March 7 isn't as wild as
I imagined!

Shuttles in operation as follows:

Stockwell-Morden
Edgware-Golders Green
East Finchley-High Barnet ( It says also to Mill Hill East, but I suspect
this maybe a shuttle Finchley Central-Mill Hill East)

Northern Line future
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:35:14 -0000, "Alan Ingham"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
There is a new timetable in place now that restores old service
frequencies but with the fixed service pattern.

The new crossover is in place but fixed out of use. The testing and
assurance process is being done now. I had to review documentation about
testing equipment today so testing work can occur tonight. There were
also tests last night. The intention is to ensure the new installation
is fully safe to brought into full "moving" service and that depends on
the results gathered from the tests. On the assumption everything gets
signed off then I understand there is a time period before the all
singing, all dancing service pattern can be brought back into use. I am
afraid I do not know how long that time period is. I can assure you
that a lot of work is being done to get the service restored.

Thanks Paul. Didn't realise LU staff read this group! I guess I just wanted
to know what the intention was as I'd heard "Ken had spoken" and said the
line was going to stay in its present state.

I think you'll find there are lots of LUL staff on the group - some more
conspicuous than others.

There is an early finish to evening services tomorrow night on the
Northern which is being advertised as related to the re-opening. Not
sure what is involved but I *guess* it will be ultrasonic / computer
assessments of the track and its geometry as installed.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Northern Line future
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:35:14 -0000, "Alan Ingham"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
There is a new timetable in place now that restores old service
frequencies but with the fixed service pattern.

The new crossover is in place but fixed out of use. The testing and
assurance process is being done now. I had to review documentation
about
testing equipment today so testing work can occur tonight. There were
also tests last night. The intention is to ensure the new
installation
is fully safe to brought into full "moving" service and that depends
on
the results gathered from the tests. On the assumption everything
gets
signed off then I understand there is a time period before the all
singing, all dancing service pattern can be brought back into use. I
am
afraid I do not know how long that time period is. I can assure you
that a lot of work is being done to get the service restored.

Thanks Paul. Didn't realise LU staff read this group! I guess I just
wanted
to know what the intention was as I'd heard "Ken had spoken" and said
the
line was going to stay in its present state.

I think you'll find there are lots of LUL staff on the group - some more
conspicuous than others.

There is an early finish to evening services tomorrow night on the
Northern which is being advertised as related to the re-opening. Not
sure what is involved but I *guess* it will be ultrasonic / computer
assessments of the track and its geometry as installed.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Did they do any testing on Saturday night? (AVI train?). When I was up
there early Saturday morning, they had the lights installed on the track
at 20B points which apparently were in preparation for testing with a
train running that night - unless they'd got the days mixed up.

Roger

Northern Line future
 

Paul Corfield wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:35:14 -0000, "Alan Ingham"
wrote:
Thanks Paul. Didn't realise LU staff read this group! I guess I just wanted
to know what the intention was as I'd heard "Ken had spoken" and said the
line was going to stay in its present state.

I think you'll find there are lots of LUL staff on the group - some more
conspicuous than others.

There is an early finish to evening services tomorrow night on the
Northern which is being advertised as related to the re-opening. Not
sure what is involved but I *guess* it will be ultrasonic / computer
assessments of the track and its geometry as installed.

So if nothing else requires modification (WHAM WHAM WHAM) then the
cross-services in TT48 at Camden Town will resume sometime in March or
early April, right? Or will LU test it as thoroughly as possible and
wait until the summertime?

Brad

Northern Line future
 

It was a dark and stormy night when TheOneKEA
wrote in article . ..
Paul Corfield wrote in message news:b3lk30t6vpd44melprmr
...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:35:14 -0000, "Alan Ingham"
wrote:
Thanks Paul. Didn't realise LU staff read this group! I guess I just wanted
to know what the intention was as I'd heard "Ken had spoken" and said the
line was going to stay in its present state.

I think you'll find there are lots of LUL staff on the group - some more
conspicuous than others.

There is an early finish to evening services tomorrow night on the
Northern which is being advertised as related to the re-opening. Not
sure what is involved but I *guess* it will be ultrasonic / computer
assessments of the track and its geometry as installed.

So if nothing else requires modification (WHAM WHAM WHAM) then the
cross-services in TT48 at Camden Town will resume sometime in March or
early April, right? Or will LU test it as thoroughly as possible and
wait until the summertime?

Poster at London Bridge last night said "within 2 weeks".

Grebbsy
--
"All vampires suck, but not all who suck are vampires."
(--B.J.Kuehl)

:::Grebbsy :::::::lemon curry?:::