In message , Robin9
writes

In St James Lane in Muswell Hill, the old viaduct to Alexander
Palace in still in place, reminding us of Muswell Hill's previous
railway connection.


In the 80s, as a Haringey Councillor, I supported a light railway of , a
then unique, design running partly on rails partly suspended, funded by
the EU and which would have run from Highgate (upper level) station
along, above the abandoned line through Muswell Hill, Crouch End,
Alexandra Palace to Finsbury Park.

The idea was abandoned as the environmentalists amongst us didn't want
to build on what had become the Parkland Walk
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Walk )



--
Bryan Morris
Public Key http://www.pgp.uk.demon.net - 0xCC6237E9

On 2015\11\28 16:11, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Robin9
writes

In St James Lane in Muswell Hill, the old viaduct to Alexander
Palace in still in place, reminding us of Muswell Hill's previous
railway connection.


In the 80s, as a Haringey Councillor, I supported a light railway of , a
then unique, design running partly on rails partly suspended, funded by
the EU and which would have run from Highgate (upper level) station
along, above the abandoned line through Muswell Hill, Crouch End,
Alexandra Palace to Finsbury Park.

I presume you mean from Alexandra Palace through Muswell Hill, Highgate
(upper level) station, Crouch End, to Finsbury Park, i.e. following the
abandoned railway. Suspended how? Like the Schwebebahn?

I have to say, every time I look at the planned branch doing nearly a
right angle at Seven Sisters, I think that some clueless manager saw the
abandoned Palace Gates branch on a map and told their underlings to use
it, but when their underlings pointed out that it was largely built on,
said "I... meant a tunnel... obviously" and they haven't been able to
subsequently admit that they cocked up and they never would have
suggested that alignment at all if they hadn't thought it would be a
cheap line along the surface.

In message , Basil Jet
writes
On 2015\11\28 16:11, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Robin9
writes

In St James Lane in Muswell Hill, the old viaduct to Alexander
Palace in still in place, reminding us of Muswell Hill's previous
railway connection.


In the 80s, as a Haringey Councillor, I supported a light railway of , a
then unique, design running partly on rails partly suspended, funded by
the EU and which would have run from Highgate (upper level) station
along, above the abandoned line through Muswell Hill, Crouch End,
Alexandra Palace to Finsbury Park.

I presume you mean from Alexandra Palace through Muswell Hill, Highgate
(upper level) station, Crouch End, to Finsbury Park, i.e. following the
abandoned railway. Suspended how? Like the Schwebebahn?

Yep following the abandoned line. It's 30 years ago now but from memory
(and we were given a presentation by the manufacturers) at places it
would be suspended over the Parklands Walk and at other times would be
at ground level.

It would have been driverless, run 24/7, and at times consist of a
single car, supplemented by extra cars when needed.

At the time I was a member of the Alexander Palace and Park Committee
and we were planning the rebuilding of Alexander Palace after the fire
that had largely destroyed it. I felt the plans for the Palace (Hotel,
Exhibition Centre etc.) too ambitious because of the lack of transport
facilities and then this came up which I felt was needed both for
connections to Alexandra Palace and to bring places like Muswell Hill ,
Crouch End etc. to connect to the Northern Line at Highgate High Level.

I wanted at least a feasibility study to be undertaken but could not get
the required votes.
--
Bryan Morris
Public Key http://www.pgp.uk.demon.net - 0xCC6237E9

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 17:06:55 +0000
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Basil Jet
connections to Alexandra Palace and to bring places like Muswell Hill ,
Crouch End etc. to connect to the Northern Line at Highgate High Level.

If there was a northern line branch to Muswell Hill I can only imagine the
stratospheric prices the houses would reach there. They're not exactly cheap
now. Pulling up that branch line must have been one of the most short
sighted idiotic things ever done in london transport policy.

--
Spud

On 2015\11\28 21:14, d wrote:
On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 17:06:55 +0000
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Basil Jet
connections to Alexandra Palace and to bring places like Muswell Hill ,
Crouch End etc. to connect to the Northern Line at Highgate High Level.

If there was a northern line branch to Muswell Hill I can only imagine the
stratospheric prices the houses would reach there. They're not exactly cheap
now. Pulling up that branch line must have been one of the most short
sighted idiotic things ever done in london transport policy.

No, closing a railway is no biggie, unless they build on it. The mistake
was tolerating people who say that a closed railway is a treasured green
space that can't be reused as a railway (or road). The area would still
be well supplied with green space without the Parkland Walk.

I suspect that eventually those "environmentalists" will get
a shock. As London's population grows, ever greater pressure
will be placed on transport infrastructure and politicians will cast
around for relatively cheap ways of providing new capacity.

At some stage in the next thirty years or so, London Overground
will suggest running a service from Highgate (high level) along
Parkland Walk to Finsbury Park and then via Canonbury Tunnel to
Stratford. I'm convinced it's just a matter of time.

On 2015\11\29 11:09, wrote:

Are there any other abandoned routes in the London and immediate
surrounds that could be considered in the same light?
Demolition of buildings will be required on such routes but would for
example rebuilding the Hammersmith Grove Road link facilitate route
opportunities from the nearer parts of SW London to N London should
CrossRail generate so much traffic from further out that becomes
overcrowded.
I expect the nearby Hammersmith and Chiswick is a lost cause though.

I can't think of any use for it even if the track was still there.

For decades I've been trying, on and off, to think of a solution to the
Gunnersbury Shuffle[1] that wouldn't both cost a fortune *and* make
things worse. I may have hit on it.

When the Picc takes over Ealing Broadway, divert the District Line
trains from Richmond through the old diveunder east of Fishers Lane,
which is long enough for two Piccadilly tracks over it. This would give
two straight adjacent District tracks east of Acton Lane which could
have two platforms built on them. The existing District platforms would
be served by the Piccadilly Line, and all Piccadilly services at Turnham
Green would cease. The curve on the north side of the Gunnersbury
Triangle would be reinstated, and the North London Line would be
diverted via the *NEW* District platforms in both directions, with a
reversal there. Thus all trains in the area would call at Chiswick Park.
The west side of the Gunnersbury Triangle could be abandoned and become
part of the nature reserve, to make up for any land lost on the north
side. If having NLL trains occupying District platforms while the driver
changes ends is a problem, then there would have to be NLL platforms
alongside the new District ones, for which there is room, but the extra
junctions east of Acton Lane would push all of the new platforms further
away from the station entrance.

[1] North London Line - Gunnersbury - Turnham Green - Acton Town - Heathrow

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 12:56:21 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\11\29 11:09, wrote:

Are there any other abandoned routes in the London and immediate
surrounds that could be considered in the same light?
Demolition of buildings will be required on such routes but would for
example rebuilding the Hammersmith Grove Road link facilitate route
opportunities from the nearer parts of SW London to N London should
CrossRail generate so much traffic from further out that becomes
overcrowded.
I expect the nearby Hammersmith and Chiswick is a lost cause though.

I can't think of any use for it even if the track was still there.

For decades I've been trying, on and off, to think of a solution to the
Gunnersbury Shuffle[1] that wouldn't both cost a fortune *and* make
things worse. I may have hit on it.

When the Picc takes over Ealing Broadway, divert the District Line
trains from Richmond through the old diveunder east of Fishers Lane,
which is long enough for two Piccadilly tracks over it. This would give
two straight adjacent District tracks east of Acton Lane which could
have two platforms built on them. The existing District platforms would
be served by the Piccadilly Line, and all Piccadilly services at Turnham
Green would cease. The curve on the north side of the Gunnersbury
Triangle would be reinstated, and the North London Line would be
diverted via the *NEW* District platforms in both directions, with a
reversal there. Thus all trains in the area would call at Chiswick Park.
The west side of the Gunnersbury Triangle could be abandoned and become
part of the nature reserve, to make up for any land lost on the north
side. If having NLL trains occupying District platforms while the driver
changes ends is a problem, then there would have to be NLL platforms
alongside the new District ones, for which there is room, but the extra
junctions east of Acton Lane would push all of the new platforms further
away from the station entrance.

[1] North London Line - Gunnersbury - Turnham Green - Acton Town - Heathrow

What about the new blocks of flats on Bollo Lane which are probably in
the way of the line and platforms you want to build?

On 2015\11\29 14:51, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 12:56:21 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\11\29 11:09, wrote:

Are there any other abandoned routes in the London and immediate
surrounds that could be considered in the same light?
Demolition of buildings will be required on such routes but would for
example rebuilding the Hammersmith Grove Road link facilitate route
opportunities from the nearer parts of SW London to N London should
CrossRail generate so much traffic from further out that becomes
overcrowded.
I expect the nearby Hammersmith and Chiswick is a lost cause though.

I can't think of any use for it even if the track was still there.

For decades I've been trying, on and off, to think of a solution to the
Gunnersbury Shuffle[1] that wouldn't both cost a fortune *and* make
things worse. I may have hit on it.

When the Picc takes over Ealing Broadway, divert the District Line
trains from Richmond through the old diveunder east of Fishers Lane,
which is long enough for two Piccadilly tracks over it. This would give
two straight adjacent District tracks east of Acton Lane which could
have two platforms built on them. The existing District platforms would
be served by the Piccadilly Line, and all Piccadilly services at Turnham
Green would cease. The curve on the north side of the Gunnersbury
Triangle would be reinstated, and the North London Line would be
diverted via the *NEW* District platforms in both directions, with a
reversal there. Thus all trains in the area would call at Chiswick Park.
The west side of the Gunnersbury Triangle could be abandoned and become
part of the nature reserve, to make up for any land lost on the north
side. If having NLL trains occupying District platforms while the driver
changes ends is a problem, then there would have to be NLL platforms
alongside the new District ones, for which there is room, but the extra
junctions east of Acton Lane would push all of the new platforms further
away from the station entrance.

[1] North London Line - Gunnersbury - Turnham Green - Acton Town - Heathrow

What about the new blocks of flats on Bollo Lane which are probably in
the way of the line and platforms you want to build?


The platforms would be east of Acton Lane.

I wasn't sure if those flats were on the old alignment. A slightly
tighter curve just south of them should be okay... it would be nowhere
near as curved as Metropolitan Junction.