In message , at 04:06:26 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, Charles Ellson remarked:

I assume Crossrail wasn't able to make any use of the shelters on its
route?

IIRC only the Chancery Lane (ex censored telephone exchange) shelter
comes anywhere near and in the right alignment with Crossrail turning
off toward Farringdon before it reaches it. It's possibly also not
deep enough or big enough.

More information at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsw...phone_exchange
--
Roland Perry

Off-topic - about telephone exchanges. I was wondering what goes on inside them nowadays. I walked past a big one on the London Road in Mitcham yesterday. Some of its windows were open so I suppose somebody was in there, although the door looks very unused. In this modern day-and-age are huge physical, mechanical buildings needed to process telephone calls?

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 23:29:04 -0600, (Mark Brader) wrote:

"Aurora":
Much better, IMHO to use it for its original purpose. To wit as part
of a fast, limited stop pair quadrupling the TfL Northern Line.

Charles Ellson:
That wasn't the original purpose (note that Wonkypaedia fails to
supply a source) rather than a "maybe" use after the war...

Graeme Wall:
The original deep Northern Line tunnels were built along te Bank branch
IIRC, the ones around Clapham were built as shelters but with the idea
of linking them up to the earlier tunnels post war.

"Scott":
This was my understanding, that the various tunnels could be linked up
after the war was over to provide an express line. Had the full route
been intact, I suspect it would have been brought into use.

Yes, the *purpose* of building the deep tunnels was to provide air-raid
shelters. The *locations* were chosen so that they could be linked up,
if later warranted, for new express tube tracks following the Northern
and the Central Line.

From "Rails through the Clay" (2nd edition, pages 250 and 273):

# Another idea brought back from the 1936 visit to New York was
# that of building express tube lines parallel to the most congested
# sections. These new lines were proposed from Liverpool Street to
# Marble Arch on the Central Line (with stations at Bank and Oxford
# Circus) and between Archway (then Highgate) and Tottenham Court
# Road on the Northern Line (without intermediate stations). It was
# also proposed to provide a branch from Baker Street (Bakerloo)
# to Victoria with one intermediate station at Bond Street and a
# 'Camden Town' type junction at Baker Street.
#
# There would have been through-running connections with the existing
# lines at each end of the express sections, and convenient same-level
# interchange between the fast and slow lines at the common stations.
# On the Central line, the express stations and all those on the
# eastern extension would have held 10-car trains, avoiding the
# need to lengthen the existing Central line platforms for more than
# six cars.
...
# The bombings of 1940, and intelligence reports of more powerful
# bombs and more efficient delivery systems, forced a reappraisal
# of the deep-shelter policy. At the end of October the government
# decided to construct a system of deep shelters linked to existing
# tube stations. London Transport was consulted about the sites,
# and was required to build the tunnels at the public expense,
# with the understanding that it was to have the option of taking
# them over for railway use after the war. With the latter point
# in mind, sites were examined on routes of possible north-south
# and east-west express tube railways, as discussed in the previous
# chapter, but now comprising Bank-Holborn, Camden Town - Tottenham
# Court Road and Kennington-Balham.

The shelter tunnels are 16'6" in diameter, and thus would have become
running tunnels, not stations, if they had ever been linked up.

IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

IMHO This route could be the basis of a route much superior to
Crossrail two. The Northern Line is in sore need of relief. As is
Waterloo.

Consider a route using the Crossrail two but after St Pancras Euston
following the Express Northern Line route thru the west end to
Kennington and on to South Wimbledon. From there Raynes Park is a
straight shot. After interchange with the NR station Northern Line
Express could continue to Chessington and Epsom, thus relieving
Waterloo.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015 19:19:19 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(e27002 aurora) wrote:

On Mon, 21 Dec 2015 22:30:05 -0800 (PST), Offramp
wrote:

London Underground has secured planning permission and listed
building consent from Lambeth Council to turn a park-side rotunda
building near Clapham South Tube station into a new restaurant or
café with exhibition space, bringing the historic Grade II World War
Two shelter back to life.

A café or restaurant will be created on the site, offering views over
Clapham Common.

Under the Rotunda, 180 steps below ground and under the Northern line
tunnels, lie eight deep-level air-raid shelters that were built between
1940 and 1942. The vast tunnels are one of seven deep level networks
constructed along the Northern line. It was not until 1944, when the
bombing of London intensified with the use of V-1 and V-2 bombs, that
the shelter was used for its intended purpose of housing up to 8,000
Londoners during air-raids. It closed after less than a year in May 1945.

TfL has rented out the shelter for secure archive storage in the past.
In 1998, English Heritage awarded the shelter Grade II listed status in
recognition of its history, noting that it is the only deep-level shelter
remaining that retains much of the original signage and is one of the few
to retain many of the original bunk beds...

Much better, IMHO to use it for its original purpose. To wit as part
of a fast, limited stop pair quadrupling the TfL Northern Line.

It's /purpose/ was always as an air raid shelter. The location and alignment
were designed so it could be part of a post-war express tube line if one
were to be built but that project was never developed further.

Sadly this is so. But, taxpayer pounds were in short supply
immediately post WWII.

In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.
--
Roland Perry

On 2015\12\23 08:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.

Although it's a little surprising that Camden Town would not have had an
express stop.

My original reply seems to have been swallowed by the internet, but basically I suggested having a gander at http://alondoninheritance.com/london...ing-for-peace/

....it's a great piece and has maps showing what was intended, including what later became the Victoria line and proto-CR2.

And every time I see this subject line I think "Cabman's Shelter" though
there is no longer one in Clapham

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabmen's_Shelter_Fund

http://www.cabbieblog.com/green-cab-shelters/
1879 Clapham Common
==

--
Mike D

On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 21:37:32 -0000, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

And every time I see this subject line I think "Cabman's Shelter" though
there is no longer one in Clapham

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabmen's_Shelter_Fund

http://www.cabbieblog.com/green-cab-shelters/
1879 Clapham Common

Thank you. There is some history there. They are certainly cute
structures.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 23:55:15 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2015\12\23 08:22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:59:59 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2015, e27002 aurora remarked:
IUI the shelters were built as running tunnels adjacent to Northern
Line Stations that would NOT be served by the express trains.

That makes sense, given that one of the more well-known ones is at
Goodge Street.

Although it's a little surprising that Camden Town would not have had an
express stop.

What was the area like at the time?

--
jhk