On 13/04/2016 09:15, Roland Perry wrote:
Presumably this is because they are employing the same architects who
perpetrated horrors like the walk from SPILL to the Victoria Line under
Kings Cross?

Judging by the plans published a few months ago, Crossrail 2 to Euston
is going to be another one of these route marches.

Indeed. But shouldn't we look upon these connections as part of the
Government's plans to make us all take more exercise? It's a pity that
there is little joined-up thinking on this: the solution at Holburn
ought to be to make everyone walk up the escalators on both sides,
instead of trying to make everyone stand on both left and right.

--
Clive Page

On 14/04/2016 09:53, Roland Perry wrote:
Another change which has been substantially elongated is Thameslink to
Victoria/Piccadilly at Kings Cross/St Pancras. Previously it was a much
shorter passage (still extant).

The much shorter connection was to the old King's Cross Thameslink. The
station is still there, just abandoned. I don't see why they couldn't
keep it open - it would I suppose take the average Thameslink train an
extra couple of minutes to get through the core if they had to make an
extra stop, but given the typical delays we experience, that is surely
lost in the noise.

The other really odd connections are at Green Park. Given that there are
three tube lines crossing at different levels, so there must be points
at which each line is just above each of the other two, it does seem
strange that one has to walk what seems like hundreds of metres to make
*any* connection there.

--
Clive Page

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:52:13 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

On 14/04/2016 09:53, Roland Perry wrote:
Another change which has been substantially elongated is Thameslink to
Victoria/Piccadilly at Kings Cross/St Pancras. Previously it was a much
shorter passage (still extant).

The much shorter connection was to the old King's Cross Thameslink. The
station is still there, just abandoned. I don't see why they couldn't
keep it open - it would I suppose take the average Thameslink train an
extra couple of minutes to get through the core if they had to make an
extra stop, but given the typical delays we experience, that is surely
lost in the noise.

The other really odd connections are at Green Park. Given that there are
three tube lines crossing at different levels, so there must be points
at which each line is just above each of the other two, it does seem
strange that one has to walk what seems like hundreds of metres to make
*any* connection there.

There was a recent discussion here on that very topic. In summary:

The Piccadilly line platforms under Piccadilly originally served a
different surface station, Dover Street, and are well to the east of
the current (1933) station building, connected by sloping escalators,
rather than vertical lift shafts. The later lines pass under the new
station building, and so there is an inevitable gaps between the
Piccadilly platforms and the new ones. In both cases, the platforms
were built to the south of the station, under the park, rather than
expensive Mayfair buildings.

The connection between the Jubilee and Victoria lines isn't bad, and
would have been better if the long term route of the Jubilee line been
known when the line's platforms were first built, as it would have had
a roughly north-south alignment. Perhaps even cross-platform
interchanges would have been possible, but as it is, the Jubilee line
crosses the Victoria line almost at right angles.

The only real question is why the exit from the Picc platforms to the
corridor to the Victoria line isn't further to the west. My
speculation is that it was to avoid crowds building up too near the
escalators at the west end of the Picc platforms. Of course, the lazy
man's route between the two is via the escalators to the booking hall.

In message , at 12:52:13 on Thu, 14
Apr 2016, Clive Page remarked:
On 14/04/2016 09:53, Roland Perry wrote:
Another change which has been substantially elongated is Thameslink to
Victoria/Piccadilly at Kings Cross/St Pancras. Previously it was a much
shorter passage (still extant).

The much shorter connection was to the old King's Cross Thameslink.

Yes, that's the one I'm taking about.

The station is still there, just abandoned. I don't see why they
couldn't keep it open - it would I suppose take the average Thameslink
train an extra couple of minutes to get through the core if they had to
make an extra stop, but given the typical delays we experience, that is
surely lost in the noise.

The problem wit the old station was inadequate platform widths (and
quite possibly now, platform lengths).

The other really odd connections are at Green Park. Given that there
are three tube lines crossing at different levels, so there must be
points at which each line is just above each of the other two, it does
seem strange that one has to walk what seems like hundreds of metres to
make *any* connection there.

This has been discussed at some length a couple of weeks ago.
--
Roland Perry

On 14/04/2016 12:52, Clive Page wrote:

On 14/04/2016 09:53, Roland Perry wrote:
Another change which has been substantially elongated is Thameslink to
Victoria/Piccadilly at Kings Cross/St Pancras. Previously it was a much
shorter passage (still extant).

The much shorter connection was to the old King's Cross Thameslink. The
station is still there, just abandoned. I don't see why they couldn't
keep it open - it would I suppose take the average Thameslink train an
extra couple of minutes to get through the core if they had to make an
extra stop, but given the typical delays we experience, that is surely
lost in the noise.


KX Thameslink was dangerously crowded at peak times, it really was. The
platforms were narrow, the passenger numbers large. St Pancras
Thameslink with its wide platforms is far preferable - bear in mind that
the Thameslink core will become ever busier in future years.

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

KX Thameslink was dangerously crowded at peak times, it really was.
The platforms were narrow, the passenger numbers large. St Pancras
Thameslink with its wide platforms is far preferable - bear in mind
that the Thameslink core will become ever busier in future years.

Precisely. Assuming the old station has lost its grandfather rights it can't
now be reopened.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thursday, 14 April 2016 16:49:08 UTC+1, wrote:
In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

KX Thameslink was dangerously crowded at peak times, it really was.
The platforms were narrow, the passenger numbers large. St Pancras
Thameslink with its wide platforms is far preferable - bear in mind
that the Thameslink core will become ever busier in future years.

Precisely. Assuming the old station has lost its grandfather rights it can't
now be reopened.

It wouldn't be able to take 12 car trains, or be extended to, either. (SDO would
be very impractical anywhere in the Thameslink core)

On 14/04/2016 13:04, Recliner wrote:
There was a recent discussion here on that very topic. In summary:

Somehow I missed that, thanks for the summary.

--
Clive Page

On 14/04/2016 14:31, Roland Perry wrote:
The problem wit the old station was inadequate platform widths (and
quite possibly now, platform lengths).

It's true that in rush hours it used to get rather overcrowded, though I
don't ever recall it being dangerously so. But if reopened it would
essentially only serve those wanting to change to Vic and Picc lines,
and perhaps a very few wanting to reach the Pentonville Road, not those
wanting the main line stations so it would surely be less than half as
popular. As for 12-coach trains, well selective door opening works on
other lines at short platforms.


--
Clive Page

On Friday, 15 April 2016 09:57:10 UTC+1, Clive Page wrote:
On 14/04/2016 14:31, Roland Perry wrote:
The problem wit the old station was inadequate platform widths (and
quite possibly now, platform lengths).

It's true that in rush hours it used to get rather overcrowded, though I
don't ever recall it being dangerously so. But if reopened it would
essentially only serve those wanting to change to Vic and Picc lines,
and perhaps a very few wanting to reach the Pentonville Road, not those
wanting the main line stations so it would surely be less than half as
popular.

For that you'd need to rename the station to something very confusing, surely?
"Kings Cross Thameslink for Victoria and Piccadilly lines but not Kings Cross but also Pentonville Road"? :-)

As for 12-coach trains, well selective door opening works on
other lines at short platforms.

It's possible though that on "new" Thameslink there'll be greater use of it as
a metro style line through the core due to the high frequency. That's probably why the new trains have a low seating density. Selective door opening is a pain anywhere, but four (?) carriages off the platform at somewhere like Kings Cross would be a real pain I think!