There have been quite a few posts lately about the railway lines and
stations under Heathrow, so I went along yesterday to refresh my
memory. I use Heathrow quite often, but am normally encumbered by
luggage and in a hurry to check-in or go home, but this trip was pure
sight-seeing:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57667996346665

A few points:

- The corridor connection to the Piccadilly station at T4 has quite a
slope, so departing pax have to push or tow their luggage up to the
lifts and escalator (of course, passengers heading into London walk
downhill to the station). I wonder why? Was the platform tunnel a bit
deeper than expected when the terminal was built (the T4 Piccadilly
Line extension was approved after the terminal was designed)?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/


- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/


- Both Heathrow Connect and Express trains have a quick security
walk-through (not cleaners) when reversing, before pax are allowed to
board. Was this always the case, or is it something recent?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/


- Heathrow Express trains have excellent luggage space, Piccadilly
Line much less so.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/
But people use the available space badly, preferring to keep their
bags right under their eyes, even though this clogs the already
limited space on the small Tube trains:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/


- The HEx and HC trains have an excellent level interface with the
platforms, with almost no gap:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/

However, I notice that the platforms slope upwards towards the trains,
presumably deliberately to reduce the chances of wheeled bags rolling
off, on to the tracks. Were they built this way, or was the profile
changed later?

The Piccadilly line trains have a higher floor than the platforms,
except where there's a short hump (not all platforms). This affects
not just disabled people, but anyone hauling heavy bags on and off the
trains.


- We know that the current terminating platforms at T5 will become
through platforms in a few years. But you can't yet see anything
before the platform ends:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/


- The Heathrow Connect platforms at T4 are much deeper than the
Piccadilly Line platform:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/

Have there been any proposals to extend this line as well, to run
through services to the south? The line could certainly pass over the
Piccadilly line with plenty of clearance.


- The empty frame for the lift bank down to the currently unused pair
of southern platforms is clearly visible, but there's a temporary
concrete floor above them, so it's not possible to see if there are
yet any actual platforms underneath (I suspect not):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/

This third (southern) pair of platforms for trains to and beyond
Staines will be accessed by their own dedicated escalators and lifts
from the Departures and Arrivals levels, so they will effectively form
their own separate station, in much the same way that the current Tube
and HEx platforms do. They will probably be barriered, like the
Piccadilly Line platforms, but unlike the HEx platforms (as the latter
provide the free service between terminals).

On 05/05/2016 13:42, Recliner wrote:
- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

Hardly surprising as the former is owned by the Airport and the last two
abstract revenue from it.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 05/05/2016 13:42, Recliner wrote:
- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

Hardly surprising as the former is owned by the Airport and the last two
abstract revenue from it.

Indeed so, though I think HAL also gets a share of the fares from both of
the latter. I don't know if this is from all terminals, or just T5, as HAL
paid for the Piccadilly Line extension from T23 to T5.

Nevertheless, it's unfair to air passengers who've not done their research.
Obviously HEx is the right choice for some, but I suspect a fair few others
will be misled.

What I did notice was almost all the pax got off a HEx train arriving at
T23, so it was almost empty for the last part of the journey to T5. I
wonder if T5 BA pax are more savvy, and more likely to use the Tube when
travelling from central London or the western suburbs? Of course, many may
be British and get to the airport by road.

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 07:55:15 on Fri, 6 May 2016, Recliner
remarked:
- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

Hardly surprising as the former is owned by the Airport and the last two
abstract revenue from it.

Indeed so, though I think HAL also gets a share of the fares from both of
the latter. I don't know if this is from all terminals, or just T5, as HAL
paid for the Piccadilly Line extension from T23 to T5.

Nevertheless, it's unfair to air passengers who've not done their research.
Obviously HEx is the right choice for some, but I suspect a fair few others
will be misled.

What I did notice was almost all the pax got off a HEx train arriving at
T23, so it was almost empty for the last part of the journey to T5. I
wonder if T5 BA pax are more savvy, and more likely to use the Tube when
travelling from central London or the western suburbs? Of course, many may
be British and get to the airport by road.

It could be the time of day, and what flights are leaving (balance
between business and leisure flyers). How many subsequently caught the
train to T4?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 07:55:15 on Fri, 6 May 2016, Recliner
remarked:
- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

Hardly surprising as the former is owned by the Airport and the last two
abstract revenue from it.

Indeed so, though I think HAL also gets a share of the fares from both of
the latter. I don't know if this is from all terminals, or just T5, as HAL
paid for the Piccadilly Line extension from T23 to T5.

Nevertheless, it's unfair to air passengers who've not done their research.
Obviously HEx is the right choice for some, but I suspect a fair few others
will be misled.

What I did notice was almost all the pax got off a HEx train arriving at
T23, so it was almost empty for the last part of the journey to T5. I
wonder if T5 BA pax are more savvy, and more likely to use the Tube when
travelling from central London or the western suburbs? Of course, many may
be British and get to the airport by road.

It could be the time of day, and what flights are leaving (balance
between business and leisure flyers). How many subsequently caught the
train to T4?

I took the train to T5, so I don't know for sure, but I didn't notice many
waiting on the platform. I suppose some might have been hanging around on
the wide concourse between the platforms, but I think most ordinary pax
with luggage wouldn't leave the platform their train was due to leave from.

You can see the empty platform in this pic:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7667996346665/

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 07:55:15 on Fri, 6 May 2016, Recliner
remarked:
- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

Hardly surprising as the former is owned by the Airport and the last two
abstract revenue from it.

Indeed so, though I think HAL also gets a share of the fares from both of
the latter. I don't know if this is from all terminals, or just T5, as HAL
paid for the Piccadilly Line extension from T23 to T5.

Nevertheless, it's unfair to air passengers who've not done their research.
Obviously HEx is the right choice for some, but I suspect a fair few others
will be misled.

What I did notice was almost all the pax got off a HEx train arriving at
T23, so it was almost empty for the last part of the journey to T5. I
wonder if T5 BA pax are more savvy, and more likely to use the Tube when
travelling from central London or the western suburbs? Of course, many may
be British and get to the airport by road.

It could be the time of day, and what flights are leaving (balance
between business and leisure flyers). How many subsequently caught the
train to T4?

If flights are evenly distributed between terminals, one would expect 3/4
of passengers to leave the train at T23, surely?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 07:55:15 on Fri, 6 May 2016, Recliner
remarked:
- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

Hardly surprising as the former is owned by the Airport and the last two
abstract revenue from it.

Indeed so, though I think HAL also gets a share of the fares from both of
the latter. I don't know if this is from all terminals, or just T5, as HAL
paid for the Piccadilly Line extension from T23 to T5.

Nevertheless, it's unfair to air passengers who've not done their research.
Obviously HEx is the right choice for some, but I suspect a fair few others
will be misled.

What I did notice was almost all the pax got off a HEx train arriving at
T23, so it was almost empty for the last part of the journey to T5. I
wonder if T5 BA pax are more savvy, and more likely to use the Tube when
travelling from central London or the western suburbs? Of course, many may
be British and get to the airport by road.

It could be the time of day, and what flights are leaving (balance
between business and leisure flyers). How many subsequently caught the
train to T4?

If flights are evenly distributed between terminals, one would expect 3/4
of passengers to leave the train at T23, surely?

They would if that were the case, but it's not. T5 is by far the largest,
busiest terminal, while T4 is now very quiet.

In message , at 09:19:15 on Fri, 6 May 2016,
Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:

What I did notice was almost all the pax got off a HEx train arriving at
T23, so it was almost empty for the last part of the journey to T5. I
wonder if T5 BA pax are more savvy, and more likely to use the Tube when
travelling from central London or the western suburbs? Of course, many may
be British and get to the airport by road.

It could be the time of day, and what flights are leaving (balance
between business and leisure flyers). How many subsequently caught the
train to T4?

If flights are evenly distributed between terminals,

The figures for 2014 are the latest published:

Terminal 1 - 9.8 million passengers on 81,696 flights
Terminal 2 - 6.2 million passengers on 41,481 flights
Terminal 3 - 16.6 million passengers on 82,801 flights
Terminal 4 - 9.2 million passengers on 54,567 flights
Terminal 5 - 31.6 million passengers on 207,859 flights

one would expect 3/4 of passengers to leave the train at T23, surely?

Clearly not. But first we have to look at how busy each terminal is
during the day, and what the proportion of business vs leisure
passengers is during the day.

If one terminal has a lot of laughaul flights to business destinations
in the early morning and shorter hall flights to tourist destinations
later in the morning then the percentage HEx passengers for that
terminal could change.

Similarly, while we know the runways are 98% busy all day long, the
balance of which terminals they are flying from could change during the
day. eg Dubai is one of the most popular destinations, but has just one
flight from Heathrow before 1pm, and five in the afternn, and seven in
the evening - 7:50pm and later. Those latter flights, five are from T3
and two from T5, which will skew passengers towards those from about 5pm
onwards.

It may be the case that these sorts of effects balance themselves out,
but they don't necessarily. Remember also that those particular flights
use big planes - 3 x A380, 3 x 777, 1 x A330.
--
Roland Perry

In message of Thu, 5 May
2016 13:42:23 in uk.railway, Recliner
writes
There have been quite a few posts lately about the railway lines and
stations under Heathrow, so I went along yesterday to refresh my
memory. I use Heathrow quite often, but am normally encumbered by
luggage and in a hurry to check-in or go home, but this trip was pure
sight-seeing:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57667996346665

A few points:


[snip]


- We know that the current terminating platforms at T5 will become
through platforms in a few years. But you can't yet see anything
before the platform ends:


Please include me in your we.
I don't yet know "terminating platforms at T5 will become
through platforms in a few years"
--
Walter Briscoe

On 06/05/2016 08:55, Recliner wrote:

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 05/05/2016 13:42, Recliner wrote:
- The Heathrow Airport terminal signs all promote Heathrow Express,
barely mentioning the Tube or Heathrow Connect. But there's never any
mention of the higher fares:

Hardly surprising as the former is owned by the Airport and the last two
abstract revenue from it.

Indeed so, though I think HAL also gets a share of the fares from both of
the latter. I don't know if this is from all terminals, or just T5, as HAL
paid for the Piccadilly Line extension from T23 to T5.

I think the only arrangement is that HAL keeps all the income from LU
ticket sales at T5, in exchange for building (and maintaining?) the
extension and T5 station (and staffing the latter). I'm pretty sure
there's nowt re the other Heathrow LU stations.

Heathrow Connect isn't quite in direct competition with HEx, not least
because it is run by the Heathrow Express Operating Company! There's an
arrangement between HAL/HEOC and the GWML franchisee (currently GWR)
regarding Heathrow Connect providing local train services on the line
from H&H into Paddington.


Nevertheless, it's unfair to air passengers who've not done their research.
Obviously HEx is the right choice for some, but I suspect a fair few others
will be misled.

What I did notice was almost all the pax got off a HEx train arriving at
T23, so it was almost empty for the last part of the journey to T5. I
wonder if T5 BA pax are more savvy, and more likely to use the Tube when
travelling from central London or the western suburbs? Of course, many may
be British and get to the airport by road.