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Why does the victoria line still have signals?
Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role
occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? -- Spud |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
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Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:37:09 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? Don't they have possession of the line anyway? I can't imagine any running during normal passenger service. -- Spud |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 08:02:43 -0400
burfordTjustice wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:33:03 +0000 (UTC) wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:37:09 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? Don't they have possession of the line anyway? I can't imagine any running during normal passenger service. -- Spud Because you can't imagine it, then it must be so? Get ****ing real. Tell us how an engineering train would slot in between a one train a minute ATO service then genius. -- Spud |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:42:10 +0000 (UTC)
d wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 08:02:43 -0400 burfordTjustice wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:33:03 +0000 (UTC) wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:37:09 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? Don't they have possession of the line anyway? I can't imagine any running during normal passenger service. -- Spud Because you can't imagine it, then it must be so? Get ****ing real. Tell us how an engineering train would slot in between a one train a minute ATO service then genius. -- Spud Well i can't imagine so it is so genius. |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 10:45:28 -0400
burfordTjustice wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:42:10 +0000 (UTC) wrote: Tell us how an engineering train would slot in between a one train a minute ATO service then genius. -- Spud Well i can't imagine so it is so genius. I'd lay off the weed if I were you. Its not doing your brain any favours. -- Spud |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 08:02:43 -0400, burfordTjustice
wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:33:03 +0000 (UTC) wrote: On Fri, 10 Jun 2016 09:37:09 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? Don't they have possession of the line anyway? I can't imagine any running during normal passenger service. -- Spud Because you can't imagine it, then it must be so? Get ****ing real. F.O.A.D. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators. IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations. There are, of course, a couple of differences: The code aspect on the starters is now blue, rather than lunar white. Also, the upgrade saw a modification to Victoria Line platform repeaters in that they now simply show when a train can depart, rather than what the starter's aspect is. Perhaps somebody on the Victoria had the foresight to recognise the platform repeaters for their aesthetics and thus request modification, rather than deactivation and replacement with RTDIs? One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR? |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100
" wrote: One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR? It usually comes down to money in the end. Probably easier to replace than rebuild. -- Spud |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, "
wrote: On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators. IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations. The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a thought? I'm no expert in it! According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. [...] Perhaps somebody on the Victoria had the foresight to recognise the platform repeaters for their aesthetics and thus request modification, rather than deactivation and replacement with RTDIs? I agree, they look good. So 60s! One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR? Interesting, I don't know... Richard. |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
In article ,
(Richard) wrote: On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, " wrote: On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators. IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations. The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a thought? I'm no expert in it! According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
wrote:
In article , (Richard) wrote: On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, " wrote: On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators. IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations. The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a thought? I'm no expert in it! According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that? I don't know, but they perhaps replace their first ATO systems earlier? After all, the pioneering Victoria line ATO system did last for well over 40 years; perhaps other first generation ATO systems weren't as long-lived. |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On 14.06.16 20:05, Richard wrote:
On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 13:47:49 +0100, " wrote: On 10.06.16 9:37, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:28:20 on Fri, 10 Jun 2016, d remarked: Have they simply not got around to removing them or do they still play a role occasionally? Perhaps to let the station staff know when a train can leave? Maybe for engineering trains? I've wondered about this myself, esepcially as neither the Northern nor Jibilee have wayside signals, save for gap indicators. IMHO, they simply installed on the Victoria Line a newer and updated version of the previous system. This mainly starters at stations. The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the colour lights can provide an instant and continuing fallback if the ATO fails without buggering around with axle-counters. Just a thought? I'm no expert in it! According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. [...] Perhaps somebody on the Victoria had the foresight to recognise the platform repeaters for their aesthetics and thus request modification, rather than deactivation and replacement with RTDIs? I agree, they look good. So 60s! One thing that I don't understand, however, is why they replaced the waysides with other waysides with three lenses. Could they simply not have used one lense with LEDs, the way they do on NR? Interesting, I don't know... Richard. I also wonder why they did not do same with platform repeaters. The only single-lensed platform repeater that I know of is on the westbound track at Monument. It's true that many of them now have LEDs behind their fresnel lenses, rather than incandescent bulbs. But I wonder if having a single-lense platform repeater like the one at Monument would not cut costs of having to source Fresnel lenses. |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
|
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
In article ,
(Richard) wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500, wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that? Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice. Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got. And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:05:59 +0100
Richard wrote: The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the Technically the wiggly wires are also radio albeit the leaky feeder type. It could be argued a system that relies on long(er) distance radio control is more open to being interfered with and/or hacked. Probably not an issue on the victoria line thats all underground but it certainly could be out in the open air. -- Spud |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:05:59 +0100 Richard wrote: The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the Technically the wiggly wires are also radio albeit the leaky feeder type. It could be argued a system that relies on long(er) distance radio control is more open to being interfered with and/or hacked. Probably not an issue on the victoria line thats all underground but it certainly could be out in the open air. I believe the new Seltrac system on the SSR will be radio-based. |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 08:40:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 20:05:59 +0100 Richard wrote: The DTG-R system is completely new and some would say superior to the Seltrac installed on the other lines (radio, so no wires to get damaged, better "driving"). As the system uses track circuits, the Technically the wiggly wires are also radio albeit the leaky feeder type. It could be argued a system that relies on long(er) distance radio control is more open to being interfered with and/or hacked. Probably not an issue on the victoria line thats all underground but it certainly could be out in the open air. I believe the new Seltrac system on the SSR will be radio-based. Hmm, that'll be interesting then. Lets hope the trackside to train data connections are encrypted then otherwise someone who knows what they're doing could cause mayhem. -- Spud |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:49:40 -0500,
wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500, wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that? Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice. Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got. And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour? Paris's line 1 has around 20tph at the moment, local time 2100. But really that wasn't the question, nor was it a contest. Paris did achieve a first, the conversion of that line, the city's oldest, into unattended ATO a few years ago. Richard. |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On 14.06.16 22:40, Richard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500, wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that? Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice. Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got. Richard. I believe that PATCO in Philadelphia was also using auto-pilot since day one in 1969, mainly using what appeared be fixed trippers. Tripcocks on the train that came into contact with them would then act in terms of speed or stopping. |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On 15.06.16 20:00, Richard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:49:40 -0500, wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500, wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that? Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice. Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got. And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour? Paris's line 1 has around 20tph at the moment, local time 2100. But really that wasn't the question, nor was it a contest. Paris did achieve a first, the conversion of that line, the city's oldest, into unattended ATO a few years ago. Richard. Isn't line 4 due for conversion to crewless in the next few years? |
Why does the victoria line still have signals?
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016 13:54:33 +0100, "
wrote: On 15.06.16 20:00, Richard wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:49:40 -0500, wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 15:41:55 -0500, wrote: In article , (Richard) wrote: According to Wikipedia "LUL claims that this is the world's first ATO-on-ATO upgrade", which Paris, Barcelona, etc. might have something to say about. On the basis that the Victoria Line was the first automatically driven line and its ATO system has now been replaced? Have Paris or Barcelona done that? Both were testing automation in the 50s, and Barcelona's line 5 had ATO in service in 1961 (so LUL aren't correct about being first). This was a creaky system based upon photo-electric cells - I think Paris v1.0 was similar, so it will have been replaced, I imagine twice. Paris certainly replaced a lot of conventional ATO equipment on the busiest lines in the 70s, but in that case it was more of the same rather than the impressive upgrade that the Victoria line got. And do either plan to run 36 8-car trains an hour? Paris's line 1 has around 20tph at the moment, local time 2100. But really that wasn't the question, nor was it a contest. Paris did achieve a first, the conversion of that line, the city's oldest, into unattended ATO a few years ago. Richard. Isn't line 4 due for conversion to crewless in the next few years? Yes, apparently the platform edge doors will start to be fitted in 2018 and the line will run by itself in the early 2020s. A page here says 2022 but also that work "will start in 2014"! http://www.ratp.fr/en/ratp/r_92417/r...-4-automation/ Richard. |
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