On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:32:17 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:01:42 on Fri, 23 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
The London mayor aims to deliver better, more coordinated local
services to local voters.

In the same way he aimed not to raise fares, and within days of taking
office had to retract?

He's delivering exactly what he said he would: a TfL fares freeze. He
never promised to freeze other fares, and has no ability to do so.

Actually he did, and I agree he doesn't.

He didn't promise any more than that, and didn't "retract" anything.

From his manifesto...

"Freeze TfL transport fares for four years [...]"
(page 8, PDF page 9)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/SadiqManifesto2016

The paragraph from his manifesto which was quoted the most was:

"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

Londoners don't only use trains where TfL sets the fares.

Not all the passengers are Londoners either but it seems to be one of
several places where the description "people" is displaced by a
presumption that strangers have all stayed on their own side of the
boundary.

In message , at 22:45:26 on
Sun, 25 Sep 2016, Charles Ellson remarked:

"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

Londoners don't only use trains where TfL sets the fares.

Not all the passengers are Londoners either

Those who aren't, benefit the same; no particular problem with that.

but it seems to be one of several places where the description "people"
is displaced by a presumption that strangers have all stayed on their
own side of the boundary.

Depends what is meant by "Londoner". Someone born there, or living there
at the moment??

--
Roland Perry

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:32:17 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:01:42 on Fri, 23 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
The London mayor aims to deliver better, more coordinated local
services to local voters.

In the same way he aimed not to raise fares, and within days of
taking
office had to retract?

He's delivering exactly what he said he would: a TfL fares freeze. He
never promised to freeze other fares, and has no ability to do so.

Actually he did, and I agree he doesn't.

He didn't promise any more than that, and didn't "retract" anything.

From his manifesto...

"Freeze TfL transport fares for four years [...]"
(page 8, PDF page 9)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/SadiqManifesto2016

The paragraph from his manifesto which was quoted the most was:

"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

Londoners don't only use trains where TfL sets the fares.

Not all the passengers are Londoners either but it seems to be one of
several places where the description "people" is displaced by a
presumption that strangers have all stayed on their own side of the
boundary.

Presumably that's just referring to Oyster fares, on the assumption that no
Londoner is stupid enough to pay cash fares, but some non Londoners do (and
then go on social media and complain about London's fares)

tim

tim... wrote:

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:32:17 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:01:42 on Fri, 23 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
The London mayor aims to deliver better, more coordinated local
services to local voters.

In the same way he aimed not to raise fares, and within days of
taking
office had to retract?

He's delivering exactly what he said he would: a TfL fares freeze. He
never promised to freeze other fares, and has no ability to do so.

Actually he did, and I agree he doesn't.

He didn't promise any more than that, and didn't "retract" anything.

From his manifesto...

"Freeze TfL transport fares for four years [...]"
(page 8, PDF page 9)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/SadiqManifesto2016

The paragraph from his manifesto which was quoted the most was:

"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

Londoners don't only use trains where TfL sets the fares.

Not all the passengers are Londoners either but it seems to be one of
several places where the description "people" is displaced by a
presumption that strangers have all stayed on their own side of the
boundary.

Presumably that's just referring to Oyster fares, on the assumption that no
Londoner is stupid enough to pay cash fares, but some non Londoners do (and
then go on social media and complain about London's fares)

That's not how I read it. I think the implicit assumption was that people
living and travelling within the London boroughs mainly pay TfL zonal fares
for the Tube, Overground, trams and buses. Relatively few travellers within
London are paying fares set by TOCs, and hence unaffected by the freeze.
But in most remarks and promises, Sadiq explicitly made clear he was only
referring to TfL fares.

On 26/09/2016 09:45, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:32:17 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:01:42 on Fri, 23 Sep
2016, Mizter T remarked:
The London mayor aims to deliver better, more coordinated local
services to local voters.

In the same way he aimed not to raise fares, and within days of
taking
office had to retract?

He's delivering exactly what he said he would: a TfL fares freeze. He
never promised to freeze other fares, and has no ability to do so.

Actually he did, and I agree he doesn't.

He didn't promise any more than that, and didn't "retract" anything.

From his manifesto...

"Freeze TfL transport fares for four years [...]"
(page 8, PDF page 9)

http://preview.tinyurl.com/SadiqManifesto2016

The paragraph from his manifesto which was quoted the most was:

"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

Londoners don't only use trains where TfL sets the fares.

Not all the passengers are Londoners either but it seems to be one of
several places where the description "people" is displaced by a
presumption that strangers have all stayed on their own side of the
boundary.

Presumably that's just referring to Oyster fares, on the assumption that no
Londoner is stupid enough to pay cash fares, but some non Londoners do (and
then go on social media and complain about London's fares)

That's not how I read it. I think the implicit assumption was that people
living and travelling within the London boroughs mainly pay TfL zonal fares
for the Tube, Overground, trams and buses. Relatively few travellers within
London are paying fares set by TOCs, and hence unaffected by the freeze.

Most of those sarf of the river mate!


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message , at 09:10:30 on Mon, 26 Sep
2016, tim... remarked:
"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

Londoners don't only use trains where TfL sets the fares.

Not all the passengers are Londoners either but it seems to be one of
several places where the description "people" is displaced by a
presumption that strangers have all stayed on their own side of the
boundary.

Presumably that's just referring to Oyster fares, on the assumption
that no Londoner is stupid enough to pay cash fares, but some non
Londoners do (and then go on social media and complain about London's
fares)

Some Oyster fares are based on National Rail fares for the route. Such
as Vauxhall to Waterloo direct (where iirc it's more than going on an
indirect tube-only route).
--
Roland Perry

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 08:45:30 on Mon, 26 Sep 2016, Recliner
remarked:

I think the implicit assumption was that people
living and travelling within the London boroughs mainly pay TfL zonal fares
for the Tube, Overground, trams and buses. Relatively few travellers within
London are paying fares set by TOCs, and hence unaffected by the freeze.
But in most remarks and promises, Sadiq explicitly made clear he was only
referring to TfL fares.

The problem is that he didn't. Hence the need for the embarrassing
u-turn when got into office and saw the books.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 08:45:30 on Mon, 26 Sep 2016, Recliner
remarked:

I think the implicit assumption was that people
living and travelling within the London boroughs mainly pay TfL zonal fares
for the Tube, Overground, trams and buses. Relatively few travellers within
London are paying fares set by TOCs, and hence unaffected by the freeze.
But in most remarks and promises, Sadiq explicitly made clear he was only
referring to TfL fares.

The problem is that he didn't. Hence the need for the embarrassing
u-turn when got into office and saw the books.

He didn't make a U turn. This is what he actually promised:

- Freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire scheme for
four years.

- Introduce 'The Hopper’ – a new one hour bus ticket allowing unlimited
changes within an hour, so that a £1.50 single ticket pays for a full
journey.

- Continue to support both Oyster and contactless payment card methods and
ensure fare structures remain equal so that nobody is disadvantaged by
choosing either payment method.

- Guarantee the Freedom Pass and the over-60s Oyster card, along with all
other existing concessionary fares schemes.

From http://www.sadiq.london/a_modern_and...nsport_network

The problem is with travelcards, whose price includes an element of
mainline TOC fares, and so they're not frozen.

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 10:47:27 on Mon, 26 Sep 2016, Recliner
remarked:
I think the implicit assumption was that people
living and travelling within the London boroughs mainly pay TfL zonal fares
for the Tube, Overground, trams and buses. Relatively few travellers within
London are paying fares set by TOCs, and hence unaffected by the freeze.
But in most remarks and promises, Sadiq explicitly made clear he was only
referring to TfL fares.

The problem is that he didn't. Hence the need for the embarrassing
u-turn when got into office and saw the books.

He didn't make a U turn. This is what he actually promised:

- Freeze all TfL fares and charges for the Mayor’s cycle hire scheme for
four years.

At the risk of repeating the oft-repeated quote from his manifesto:

"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

It's as discredited as the Brexit promise that £350m was heading for
the NHS, they could just as easily have picked any other figure and
claimed it was going towards free beer - something they later would
wriggle out of by saying "it was just one of a number of possibilities,
which we happened to select to paint on the side of the bus, it was
never our intention for it to be taken as a manifesto promise".
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 08:18:34 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 22:45:26 on
Sun, 25 Sep 2016, Charles Ellson remarked:

"Londoners won't pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do
today."

Londoners don't only use trains where TfL sets the fares.

Not all the passengers are Londoners either

Those who aren't, benefit the same; no particular problem with that.

but it seems to be one of several places where the description "people"
is displaced by a presumption that strangers have all stayed on their
own side of the boundary.

Depends what is meant by "Londoner". Someone born there, or living there
at the moment??

Or a Londoner by descent ? ;-)