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#1
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
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#2
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
Table four merely plucks the two figures out of the air. It doesn't derive them
or explain how it came to these figures, it just says "88%" versus "15%". Fair comment but it is the best data I could find in a hurry. We since have a figure of 34% for a 'Prius engine so I suspect that they have not tried hard to present ICE in the best possible light. Still the *efficiency* of the EV concept is similar as the losses are not large. One of the issues I have with the comparison is it ignores things like vehicle range and carrying capacity. A point that cannot be argued with and the true reason that EVs are not practical. Efficiency is not the issue. Batteries are very poor compared to petrol and are not getting better that quickly. You can get more from nicads, if you don't mind the fact that you are utilising a fairly expensive and polluting metal Cadmium, you can bump this up to maybe 1 MJ Why no NiMH? No Cadmium and a higher energy density again. Currently based on AA size (which may not be a useful comparison for a great many reasons) the achievable energy density seems to be something like four times that on NiCads. Again for small batteries Li poly do much better than NiMH and far more than twice NiCads. This doesn't tally with your data. Do you know why? Regardless it will not get close to petrol anytime soon. 80% of my annual milage is done in stop-start slow driving with total journey length of around 20 miles. This is achievable for an EV. Add an engine for long trips (hybrid) and the result should be really useful. I guess there must be snags or we would all have one since I am sure that my requirements are not unusual. It's an expensive, out of date concept that is only popular among those who do not understand the situation and is intended to solve a problem that no longer exists in any serious extent, which is the emission of nitrous oxides and incomplete combustion products by passenger vehicles in city environments, i.e. the reduction of smog. Modern cars in roadworthy condition produce almost no smog even in cities. Perhaps though it doesn't seem that was in a traffic jam. David -- ****** David Round - EMail Tel (01248) 382416 ***** *****These are my own views, I represent nobody (Well maybe myself)***** ***********I guarantee nothing - Particularly the spelling************** |
#3
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
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#4
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
In message , Sales!
writes There are hidden factors, an ICE engine produces heat that is used to keep the passenger compartment warm while the engine is running. Try keeping the car warm, dry or for that matter cool in summer, using your battery power source instead of the combustion engine's mechanical or heat energy and suddenly there's a whole extra load on the alternative power source that is not at all easy to incorporate. Showing just how inefficient a petrol engine is. -- Clive |
#5
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
In article ,
Clive wrote: There are hidden factors, an ICE engine produces heat that is used to keep the passenger compartment warm while the engine is running. Try keeping the car warm, dry or for that matter cool in summer, using your battery power source instead of the combustion engine's mechanical or heat energy and suddenly there's a whole extra load on the alternative power source that is not at all easy to incorporate. Showing just how inefficient a petrol engine is. Perhaps you'd better set about a more efficient way of converting a high density fuel like petrol to mechanical energy, then. Electric vehicles driven off storage batteries have been around for nearly as long. If they were capable of being developed into a viable competitor, it would have been done years ago. -- *Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy. Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#6
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
In message , Dave Plowman
writes Showing just how inefficient a petrol engine is. Perhaps you'd better set about a more efficient way of converting a high density fuel like petrol to mechanical energy, then. Electric vehicles driven off storage batteries have been around for nearly as long. If they were capable of being developed into a viable competitor, it would have been done years ago. Try diesel. Or indeed any compression ignition engine. -- Clive |
#7
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
"Clive" wrote in message
... In message , Dave Plowman writes Showing just how inefficient a petrol engine is. Perhaps you'd better set about a more efficient way of converting a high density fuel like petrol to mechanical energy, then. Electric vehicles driven off storage batteries have been around for nearly as long. If they were capable of being developed into a viable competitor, it would have been done years ago. Try diesel. Or indeed any compression ignition engine. I've always wondered: is it the fact that diesel engines use compression ignition or the fact that they use different fuel which gives rise their greater efficiency and their greater torque at lower engine revs? |
#8
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
In article ,
Clive wrote: Showing just how inefficient a petrol engine is. Perhaps you'd better set about a more efficient way of converting a high density fuel like petrol to mechanical energy, then. Electric vehicles driven off storage batteries have been around for nearly as long. If they were capable of being developed into a viable competitor, it would have been done years ago. Try diesel. Or indeed any compression ignition engine. They're still incredibly inefficient compared to a decent electric motor - energy in against energy out. Also, the difference between a petrol and diesel of similar output both at full power isn't that great. -- *A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it uses up a thousand times more memory. Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#9
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
Apparently on date Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:39:07 +0100, Clive
said: In message , Sales! writes There are hidden factors, an ICE engine produces heat that is used to keep the passenger compartment warm while the engine is running. Try keeping the car warm, dry or for that matter cool in summer, using your battery power source instead of the combustion engine's mechanical or heat energy and suddenly there's a whole extra load on the alternative power source that is not at all easy to incorporate. Showing just how inefficient a petrol engine is. Show me where a battery powered vehicle is even more efficient than an ICE engine, then, when adding in the factor of keeping the passenger compartment warm. Feel free to include steam power. Or sails. Solar energy is ok too, but be ready to justify the "sun is nice and warm" argument with something including going to work on a rainy day and in December when the windows are frozen. Steam does work. |
#10
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Electric or Hybrid Card or something car, suggestions?
In article ,
D.P.Round wrote: 80% of my annual milage is done in stop-start slow driving with total journey length of around 20 miles. This is achievable for an EV. Add an engine for long trips (hybrid) and the result should be really useful. I guess there must be snags or we would all have one since I am sure that my requirements are not unusual. All EV or hybrid vehicles use advanced weight and friction saving methods - combined with restricted performance. Apply these parameters to a small, say diesel, vehicle and the quoted differences might well disappear. In other words, the comparisons given by makers don't use an even playing field. -- *Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
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