On 2017\02\15 10:26, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2017-02-15 09:38:59 +0000, d said:

Putting traffic lights on roundabouts has always struck me as a
ridiculous
thing to do. Its as if the traffic planners didn't quite understand the
purpose of a roundabout or how it worked and assumed it was no different
to a 4 way junction. Once you've added the lights the roundabout is now
completely redundant and you'd probably get better traffic flow if you
did
replace it with a simple junction.

Roundabouts work very well where there is a reasonably balanced traffic
flow on all 4 (or more) arms. They fail badly where the traffic is
highly directional, e.g. towards a city centre.

Consider a typical 4 arm roundabout with arms A, B, C and D positioned
at noon, 3, 6 and 9. If at certain times of day you have a very large
flow from arm B (3 o'clock) to arm D (9 o'clock), it is basically
impossible to get out onto the roundabout on arm C (6 o'clock) because
there is a constant traffic flow preventing this. There are a number of
roundabouts in Milton Keynes where this causes peak time queueing,
particularly as the A421 passes through eastbound in the morning peak
and westbound in the evening peak.

The way to prevent this is to place traffic lights on all but one of the
arms, having no lights on an arm that is not a "blocking" flow but does
have reasonable demand. In the example above, putting them on all but
arm C would allow continuous traffic flow, but would regulate arm B such
that those on arm C could get out and queueing is prevented.

This has an advantage over a traditional traffic light junction as
traffic is always flowing - when the lights are on amber or all on red
for the "overlap", C can flow. With a traditional junction there is
dead time, which with certain designs of junction can be as much of 25%
of the time - reducing overall capacity of the junction. With the
roundabout, this doesn't happen.

I'm amazed part-time lights at roundabouts are allowed. It seems obvious
to me that every time a blown red bulb faces traffic already on the
roundabout, you will have traffic joining the roundabout seeing a green
light and thinking it has the priority, and the traffic on the
roundabout seeing no light and thinking it has the priority.

In message , at 12:02:15 on Wed, 15 Feb
2017, Basil Jet remarked:
I'm amazed part-time lights at roundabouts are allowed. It seems
obvious to me that every time a blown red bulb faces traffic already on
the roundabout, you will have traffic joining the roundabout seeing a
green light and thinking it has the priority, and the traffic on the
roundabout seeing no light and thinking it has the priority.

There will usually (always?) be two red lights. And in any event, green
doesn't mean "full steam ahead", rather than "proceed with caution".
--
Roland Perry

On 2017-02-15 15:02:33 +0000, Roland Perry said:

There will usually (always?) be two red lights. And in any event, green
doesn't mean "full steam ahead", rather than "proceed with caution".

Yes, with road traffic there is, unlike railway signalling, nothing
ever that says it is absolutely safe to proceed. However, I suspect
most drivers don't treat it that way.

LEDs of course reduce the chance of this, and these days it should be
reasonably easily possible to make all the red lights provable and in
the absence of them all working turn them all off.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2017-02-15 15:02:33 +0000, Roland Perry said:

There will usually (always?) be two red lights. And in any event,
green doesn't mean "full steam ahead", rather than "proceed with
caution".

Yes, with road traffic there is, unlike railway signalling, nothing
ever that says it is absolutely safe to proceed. However, I suspect
most drivers don't treat it that way.

LEDs of course reduce the chance of this, and these days it should be
reasonably easily possible to make all the red lights provable and in
the absence of them all working turn them all off.

Pre-LED lights have a second (dimmer) filament which shows some light when
the main filament has failed.

--
Colin Rosenstiel