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Heathrow T5 Transit photos
For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took
recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Wow, thanks for those pics. It reminds me of Total Recall.
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Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ...
For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: http://www.bombardier.com/content/da...b.750.750.jpeg -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Richard J. wrote:
Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ... For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: http://www.bombardier.com/content/da...b.750.750.jpeg Yes, that looks right. From memory, I think the trains have four (or five) carriages. The much more visible elevated Gatwick inter-terminal shuttle trains have three carriages. Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track, and the number of trains isnt limited to two. There's obvious scope for the line to be extended to a future third satellite or linked to a rebuilt central terminal. One thing that may or not be obvious from the pics is that the Transit is very clean and well maintained; it still looks brand new, despite being almost a decade old. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In article ,
Richard J. wrote: Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ... For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: ... Here's Bombardier's description. http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...le-movers.html They've installed larger systems with the same equipment at the Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix airports in the U.S. I've ridden the Dallas one. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On 2017\03\24 21:40, Richard J. wrote:
Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ... For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: http://www.bombardier.com/content/da...b.750.750.jpeg Thanks. I wonder why they have head and tail lights? |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\03\24 21:40, Richard J. wrote: Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ... For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: http://www.bombardier.com/content/da...b.750.750.jpeg Thanks. I wonder why they have head and tail lights? Yes, I wondered that. Perhaps for the benefit of (rare) track workers? |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
John Levine wrote:
In article , Richard J. wrote: Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ... For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: ... Here's Bombardier's description. http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...le-movers.html They've installed larger systems with the same equipment at the Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix airports in the U.S. I've ridden the Dallas one. Yes, the current Heathrow T5 installation is quite modest: relatively short, all underground, all within one terminal, flat and straight (apart from the crossovers). But it's likely to grow as T2 expands, and again when when (if) the third runway with associated terminal is built. I've ridden the DFW system, but a long time ago, and almost certainly an older generation of trains. Ditto Phoenix. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In article ,
Recliner wrote: Thanks. I wonder why they have head and tail lights? Yes, I wondered that. Perhaps for the benefit of (rare) track workers? Probably because the same equipment runs outside in other places. The Dallas-Fort Worth system is elevated, and the one in Phoenix is mostly elevated other than an underpass under a freight railway. Here's the DFW one: https://www.dfwairport.com/skylink/ Video of a ride on the PHX one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVLIe0VWouQ |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message
-septe mber.org, at 22:13:51 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track, and the number of trains isnt limited to two. In both cases like the shuttle at Stansted, or thinking back a long way the inter-terminal shuttle at DFW back in the 80's. May be still there. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septe mber.org, at 22:13:51 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track, and the number of trains isnt limited to two. In both cases like the shuttle at Stansted, or thinking back a long way the inter-terminal shuttle at DFW back in the 80's. May be still there. No, the Gatwick shuttle is different: it's simply two unconnected shuttle lines, with no switches or crossovers. Each line has its own train that simply shuttles backwards and forwards, so there are a maximum of two trains. In Stansted, there are separate up and down lines, and the number of trains isn't limited by the layout. The Heathrow T5 system can work in either mode. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Richard J. remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message , at 02:10:19 on Sat, 25 Mar
2017, John Levine remarked: Thanks. I wonder why they have head and tail lights? Yes, I wondered that. Perhaps for the benefit of (rare) track workers? Probably because the same equipment runs outside in other places. The Dallas-Fort Worth system is elevated, I'm pretty sure the original one was like a roller-coaster, at or below ground level (see below) and diving under the roads. Only four terminals then. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...t_guide_map200 2.jpg -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message
-sept ember.org, at 09:11:51 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track, and the number of trains isnt limited to two. In both cases like the shuttle at Stansted, or thinking back a long way the inter-terminal shuttle at DFW back in the 80's. May be still there. No, Yes ... Stansted and DFW "both have" points for trains to switch tracks, and not limited to two trains. the Gatwick shuttle is different: it's simply two unconnected shuttle lines, with no switches or crossovers. Each line has its own train that simply shuttles backwards and forwards, so there are a maximum of two trains. In Stansted, there are separate up and down lines, and the number of trains isn't limited by the layout. The Heathrow T5 system can work in either mode. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message
-sept ember.org, at 09:31:13 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. "You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips. As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg It doesn't *look* as long as the Angel one, or even the Gatwick bridge from the North terminal. The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators What's your estimate of the height of the two airport ones (in metres). -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 09:31:13 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. "You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive. Yes it is. I'm comparing it with other very large terminals that I've used multiple times. Obviously there's less walking in small terminals. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips. I use it several times a year, and have arrived and departed from all three of the buildings. I've also used all the business and first class lounges. As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg It doesn't *look* as long as the Angel one, or even the Gatwick bridge from the North terminal. It's comparable to, but almost certainly slightly longer than, Angel; it is definitely much longer than the Gatwick bridge escalator (which starts a bit higher, but only descends to first floor departures level, not deep underground). The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators What's your estimate of the height of the two airport ones (in metres). There's no point in my producing rough estimates of heights, but I've used both the escalators in question multiple times in the last year or so, and have no doubt which is longer. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message
-septe mber.org, at 10:39:23 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: "You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive. Yes it is. I'm comparing it with other very large terminals that I've used multiple times. Obviously there's less walking in small terminals. Just because there are other badly designed (from the pedestrian's point of view) terminals, doesn't excuse T5 from learning from those lessons. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips. I use it several times a year, and have arrived and departed from all three of the buildings. I've also used all the business and first class lounges. Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 10:54:10 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote: In message -septe mber.org, at 10:39:23 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: "You should see the other guy" isn't very persuasive. Yes it is. I'm comparing it with other very large terminals that I've used multiple times. Obviously there's less walking in small terminals. Just because there are other badly designed (from the pedestrian's point of view) terminals, doesn't excuse T5 from learning from those lessons. What lessons? As a frequent user, I think it's the best large terminal I've ever used and sets the standard that other large terminals should aim for. And I've used quite a few of them. Incidentally, I'm not the only one who thinks it's good: http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards/worlds_best_airport_terminal.html It's a pity that the newer Heathrow T2 isn't as good. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). I've flown in once (very long walk to immigration) and out once (not such a long walk to the gate). Different triangular trips. I use it several times a year, and have arrived and departed from all three of the buildings. I've also used all the business and first class lounges. Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches. Well, I know it's significantly better than any other large terminal I use, and I've used a lot, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, etc. I'm curious why you hate it so much, given that you've hardly any experience of it? |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message , at 11:20:49 on
Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches. Well, I know it's significantly better than any other large terminal I use, and I've used a lot, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, etc. I'm curious why you hate it so much, given that you've hardly any experience of it? The excessive walk the first time I landed there. When I've met people off flights, it's a shame the exit from customs is the other end of the building to the train stations. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:51:41 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 11:20:49 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches. Well, I know it's significantly better than any other large terminal I use, and I've used a lot, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, etc. I'm curious why you hate it so much, given that you've hardly any experience of it? The excessive walk the first time I landed there. When I've met people off flights, it's a shame the exit from customs is the other end of the building to the train stations. It would indeed be so if it were true, but it's not. Are you sure you've even been to T5? Your memories of it are so far divorced from reality that I wonder if you only imagine having been there. Or perhaps you had a bad lag on your visit to it, long ago, and had trouble walking? Here's the reality: From international arrivals, it's a short walk to the HEx exit (less than one sixth of the terminal length), and a slightly longer one to the Tube (less than a quarter of the terminal length). It's the other way round from domestic arrivals. The station for the future western rail link will be directly opposite the customs exit. Incidentally, what makes the walk longer than it needs to be is the arrivals 'duty free' (sic) shop that you have to walk through. Without that, the northern customs exit would be almost directly opposite to the HEx exit. Of course, apart from the shop's revenue aspect, they may not have wanted the crowd of meeters and greeters to be clustered directly in front of, and possibly blocking, the HEx exit. In all cases, the distances to the railway stations are less than any of the other Heathrow or Gatwick terminals. By far the worst in LHR is the T3 link to the central Tube station. See the last page of http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/PDF/Maps/Heathrow_T5_Map.pdf |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message , at 14:55:53 on
Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: From international arrivals, When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up being met near #13. So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again. it's a short walk to the HEx exit (less than one sixth of the terminal length), and a slightly longer one to the Tube (less than a quarter of the terminal length). Both are in the northern quartile of the terminal. See the last page of http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/PDF/Maps/Heathrow_T5_Map.pdf -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:55:53 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: From international arrivals, When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up being met near #13. So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again. No, that's a mistake travellers don't make twice. If you're not being met, there's no need to walk along the line of meeters and greeters in the wrong direction. Regular (or even second-time) users take the best exit (the northern customs exit from the baggage hall, and take the first right on exit). it's a short walk to the HEx exit (less than one sixth of the terminal length), and a slightly longer one to the Tube (less than a quarter of the terminal length). Both are in the northern quartile of the terminal. No, only the Tube entrance is in the northern quartile. The HEx entrance is about a third of the way along, while the best customs exit is just north of the centre. That makes the distance between the customs exit and the HEx entrance very short, though still longer than it needs to be. It'll be even easier to access the new western rail link station when/if it opens in a few years time. One other thing I should have mentioned: HAL stations its HEx ticket touts in the 'duty-free' shop, going it another reason not to let you bypass the shop. See the last page of http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/PDF/Maps/Heathrow_T5_Map.pdf |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On 25.03.17 1:58, Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote: In article , Richard J. wrote: Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ... For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: ... Here's Bombardier's description. http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...le-movers.html They've installed larger systems with the same equipment at the Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix airports in the U.S. I've ridden the Dallas one. Yes, the current Heathrow T5 installation is quite modest: relatively short, all underground, all within one terminal, flat and straight (apart from the crossovers). But it's likely to grow as T2 expands, and again when when (if) the third runway with associated terminal is built. I've ridden the DFW system, but a long time ago, and almost certainly an older generation of trains. Ditto Phoenix. What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other terminals? |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Richard J. remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe? They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which reportedly has the world's longest escalator. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
LHS1 wrote:
On 25.03.17 1:58, Recliner wrote: John Levine wrote: In article , Richard J. wrote: Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ... For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone not using the satellites. The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights (most European flights use the main terminal): https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761 Thanks for the photos. I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the public. Apparently they look like this: ... Here's Bombardier's description. http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...le-movers.html They've installed larger systems with the same equipment at the Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix airports in the U.S. I've ridden the Dallas one. Yes, the current Heathrow T5 installation is quite modest: relatively short, all underground, all within one terminal, flat and straight (apart from the crossovers). But it's likely to grow as T2 expands, and again when when (if) the third runway with associated terminal is built. I've ridden the DFW system, but a long time ago, and almost certainly an older generation of trains. Ditto Phoenix. What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other terminals? Pretty low, I think. The current T5 PRT system was supposed to be the first stage of a much bigger system to link all the terminals to the business car parks, in order to reduce the number of shuttle buses. It might even have been part of the planning conditions for T5. But I don't think anything has been heard of such expansion plans since T5 opened. A certain awol cynical member of this group predicted exactly that, and I'm sad to say he appears to have been proved right. But I fear Mr Polson won't be along shortly to say, "I told you so". |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote:
wrote: On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Richard J. remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe? They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which reportedly has the world's longest escalator. This one? https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it. Where is that, Puhung? There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator. On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from the Pyongyang Metro. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
wrote:
On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote: wrote: On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Richard J. remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe? They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which reportedly has the world's longest escalator. This one? https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it. Where is that, Puhung? Yes, PuhÅ*ng. There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator. I don't know if it's longer, but here's one I took at Kaeson station: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717502198/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ Pyongyang is fairly flat, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be much difference in escalator lengths. But it does raise a question: who made them? I'm guessing it must be a Chinese company. I doubt that North Korea was capable of making the world's longest escalators back in 1970. On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from the Pyongyang Metro. Sorry, can't help there. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:13:51 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: Yes, that looks right. From memory, I think the trains have four (or five) carriages. The much more visible elevated Gatwick inter-terminal shuttle trains have three carriages. Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track, and the number of trains isnt limited to two. There's obvious scope for the line to be extended to a future third satellite or linked to a rebuilt central terminal. One thing that may or not be obvious from the pics is that the Transit is very clean and well maintained; it still looks brand new, despite being almost a decade old. I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins? These vehicles seem to be in that grey area somewhere in between though the VAL metros in france are pretty much the same except ridiculously narrow (presumably for tunneling cost reasons). -- Spud |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Probably because the same equipment runs outside in other places. The
Dallas-Fort Worth system is elevated, I'm pretty sure the original one was like a roller-coaster, at or below ground level (see below) and diving under the roads. Only four terminals then. The old DFW system built by LTV used lots of small vehicles and tried too hard to do too many things, e.g., goods trains to move baggage between terminals, and was hard to adapt when they divided terminals into landside and post-screening airside areas. Bits of the track are still visible. It didn't help that LTV left the business so there was nobody willing to maintain or upgrade it. The new system is a train with a single circular route with all stops airside. If you want to change terminals landside, there is an ordinary rather slow bus. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:13:51 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: Yes, that looks right. From memory, I think the trains have four (or five) carriages. The much more visible elevated Gatwick inter-terminal shuttle trains have three carriages. Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track, and the number of trains isnt limited to two. There's obvious scope for the line to be extended to a future third satellite or linked to a rebuilt central terminal. One thing that may or not be obvious from the pics is that the Transit is very clean and well maintained; it still looks brand new, despite being almost a decade old. I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins? These vehicles seem to be in that grey area somewhere in between though the VAL metros in france are pretty much the same except ridiculously narrow (presumably for tunneling cost reasons). I'd say this is at the people mover end of the spectrum. But I wouldn't say it was ridiculously narrow: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/33493259211/in/photostream/lightbox/ One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of 575 tonne A380s a few metres above. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 21:46:40 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins? These vehicles seem to be in that grey area somewhere in between though the VAL metros in france are pretty much the same except ridiculously narrow (presumably for tunneling cost reasons). I'd say this is at the people mover end of the spectrum. But I wouldn't say it was ridiculously narrow: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/33493259211/in/photostream/lightbox/ No, not the T5 one - I was refering the the VAL systems. Even narrower than a tube train (though higher) and the one in toulouse in the rush hour was not a pleasent experience. -- Spud |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
On 25.03.17 21:26, Recliner wrote:
wrote: On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote: wrote: On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Richard J. remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe? They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which reportedly has the world's longest escalator. This one? https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it. Where is that, Puhung? Yes, PuhÅ*ng. There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator. I don't know if it's longer, but here's one I took at Kaeson station: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717502198/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ I liked the other pictures as well. Pyongyang is fairly flat, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be much difference in escalator lengths. Is there much variation in depths? But it does raise a question: who made them? I'm guessing it must be a Chinese company. I doubt that North Korea was capable of making the world's longest escalators back in 1970. I thought that they initially received technical assistance from the Soviet Union, though I know that the rolling stock was Chinese. On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from the Pyongyang Metro. Sorry, can't help there. I think that they are hard to find. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
wrote:
On 25.03.17 21:26, Recliner wrote: wrote: On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote: wrote: On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Richard J. remarked: I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel. The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling. There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I don't think you are). As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this doesn't look very long? https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/ Here's another pic: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg It goes through the equivalent of five high floors: https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe? They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which reportedly has the world's longest escalator. This one? https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it. Where is that, Puhung? Yes, PuhÅ*ng. There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator. I don't know if it's longer, but here's one I took at Kaeson station: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717502198/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/ I liked the other pictures as well. Pyongyang is fairly flat, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be much difference in escalator lengths. Is there much variation in depths? I don't know, but I don't know why there would be. The metro is too deep to have to be concerned by buildings and roads above. Any rivers are also high above it. But it does raise a question: who made them? I'm guessing it must be a Chinese company. I doubt that North Korea was capable of making the world's longest escalators back in 1970. I thought that they initially received technical assistance from the Soviet Union, though I know that the rolling stock was Chinese. Yes, you're right, those long escalators may well be Russian. The Russians do have significant experience of very deep metro lines. On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from the Pyongyang Metro. Sorry, can't help there. I think that they are hard to find. |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
|
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message
-sept ember.org, at 21:46:40 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of 575 tonne A380s a few metres above. You've not seen the highway tunnels with their portals only metres away from the runways at Schiphol? https://goo.gl/maps/K5NbbmjqqL42 -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message
-sept ember.org, at 17:25:53 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other terminals? Pretty low, I think. The current T5 PRT system was supposed to be the first stage of a much bigger system to link all the terminals to the business car parks, in order to reduce the number of shuttle buses. It might even have been part of the planning conditions for T5. But I don't think anything has been heard of such expansion plans since T5 opened. A certain awol cynical member of this group predicted exactly that, and I'm sad to say he appears to have been proved right. But I fear Mr Polson won't be along shortly to say, "I told you so". That was one of the rare things where I agreed with him. Stage 2 was supposed to be using the side tunnels reaching the central terminals to get from the car parking adjacent to the perimeter fence. Zilch. -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
In message
-septe mber.org, at 16:33:49 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: From international arrivals, When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up being met near #13. So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again. No, that's a mistake travellers don't make twice. If you're not being met, there's no need to walk along the line of meeters and greeters in the wrong direction. No "need", but the design is such that people get swept along in that direction with the others. The immediate u-turn is completely counter-intuitive. Regular (or even second-time) users take the best exit (the northern customs exit from the baggage hall, and take the first right on exit). There aren't many second-time users with that good a memory. Especially if they have three big terminals at Heathrow and two at Gatwick to cope with - and that's just one country! -- Roland Perry |
Heathrow T5 Transit photos
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 17:25:53 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked: What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other terminals? Pretty low, I think. The current T5 PRT system was supposed to be the first stage of a much bigger system to link all the terminals to the business car parks, in order to reduce the number of shuttle buses. It might even have been part of the planning conditions for T5. But I don't think anything has been heard of such expansion plans since T5 opened. A certain awol cynical member of this group predicted exactly that, and I'm sad to say he appears to have been proved right. But I fear Mr Polson won't be along shortly to say, "I told you so". That was one of the rare things where I agreed with him. Stage 2 was supposed to be using the side tunnels reaching the central terminals to get from the car parking adjacent to the perimeter fence. Zilch. Yup. Those are the business car parks, which were supposed to be PRT-connected like the T5 business car park. The central terminals' long stay car park is under the 27R threshold, but I don't think they ever proposed to connect that to the PRT system. |
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