In message , at
13:41:52 on Sat, 8 Apr 2017, michael adams
remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach
to maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO
this isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a combination
of medium term weather conditions plus one of the big storms) the only
way to prevent the wheel flats would be to stop running the trains. And
passengers already get cross when trains are scheduled to run slower in
leaf-fall season.

Having got the wheel flats, they literally can't be fixed overnight.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
15:17:50 on Sat, 8 Apr 2017, michael adams
remarked:
The wheel flats were not caused by lack of maintenance. They were
caused by drivers locking the brakes on slippery track, causing the
wheels to slide along the track, which creates a flat spot. That's a
combination of a possible lack of drivers' skills and LU's failure to
use the RAT frequently enough after Storm Angus brought down a lot of
leaves in a short period.

How is LU's failure to use the RAT frequently enough to keep the
track clear of leaves, not evidence of a lack of maintenance ?

Because in the case last year, the leaves fell pretty much all in one go
as the result on one storm.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
13:41:52 on Sat, 8 Apr 2017, michael adams
remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach to
maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO this
isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a
combination of medium term weather conditions plus one of the big
storms) the only way to prevent the wheel flats would be to stop
running the trains. And passengers already get cross when trains are
scheduled to run slower in leaf-fall season.

Having got the wheel flats, they literally can't be fixed overnight.

They would have been able to deal with the wheel flats a lot quicker but for
Greater Anglia getting the portable wheel lathe before them.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Apparently there were five such reports, the latest Jan 16th one
at least involving a light in the cab indicating a door was open.
Quite where the spurious element comes in, drivers suffering from
hallucinations, deliberately lying, or faulty indicator lights
in the cabs I'm not sure. I rather wish B J hadn't raised this as
an example as now I'm rather intrigued to know how this issue
was resolved. If at all.

Have you actually looked at the video this one?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35337580

What exactly would have been the point of my having watched a video
which you yourself along with others suspect is simply a random
clip used by the BBC showing normal door operation ?


michael adams

....

"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...
In message , at 13:41:52 on Sat, 8
Apr 2017, michael adams remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach
to maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO
this isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a combination of medium term
weather conditions plus one of the big storms) the only way to prevent the wheel flats
would be to stop running the trains.

Or how about taking the first two or three scheduled trains out of service,
in both directions on the Uxbridge line where most of the problems
appear to arise, and run the RAT up and down instead between Acton Town
and Uxbridge ?


michael adams

....





And
passengers already get cross when trains are scheduled to run slower in leaf-fall
season.

Having got the wheel flats, they literally can't be fixed overnight.
--
Roland Perry

"Recliner" wrote in message
...

You may well know that, and his fellow drivers may well know that,
but do the general public ? If B J's example is allowed as a real
possibility, is it realistic to suppose that LU would immediately
own up to real possibility that their trains are at fault, without
first holding some sort of internal enquiry ?

The question was whether the reports of such door openings were
spurious.

The actual door problem appears to have been acknowledged, investigated and
fixed. It was apparently a fault in a single door engine, and no-one blamed
the driver.

To repeat "The question was whether the reports of such door openings were
spurious".

In other words, when supposedly trusted employees of LT, trusted sufficiently
to be able to drive trains at least., report a problem with doors, "a question"
immediately arises as to whether they're simply telling lies or not.

And then it turns out that "apparently" the drivers weren't telling lies or making
things up after all.

That's what you're saying in effect, is it not ?

But the union still used it as an excuse for industrial
action.

The union didn't use it as an "excuse" for anything. Although possibly they were
justifiably disappointed that the first recourse of LT management
whenever drivers report a problem who's effects aren't manifestly
apparent, is to suggest that the drivers are lying or making things up.

Although as I've already said, and in answer to your diatribe in your other post
the problem is not that the drivers are always in the right and the management
always in the wrong, but even in those cases where they are in the right they're
inadequately represented such that their point is not put across. If they
employed PR smoothies to represent them in the media as do LU -
then possibly they'd come over better.

As to management and the board. My 3rd most frequently used line is the
Central Line. For the new stock some genius presumably persuaded numerous
committees and boards that it would be a nice idea to have wrap around
windows up to the ceiling to allow the punters to better view the Essex
countryside. Unfortunately it was only after the new stock came on stream
that it was realised that in the absence of air-conditioning the insides of the
car became unbearably hot in sunny weather. Like little greenhouses
in fact. Now who'd have thought ? So that as result all the windows ended up
tinted. Which while maybe looking stylish to types attracted to that sort of thing
had the unfortunate result that passengers standing outside on the platform are
unable to see inside and which carriages are full and which are empty.
One possible solution might be to blank out the additional window area with
opaque film do reducing it to what it was before. However that's unlikely to
happen as it would be a living testament to the monumental
cock-up that was seemingly perpetrated at all levels of LT management.
Instead Central Line passengers are going to have to suffer a situation
where they can't see inside a train before boarding for the next, what
40 years ?

Oh and having done a bit of reading up. Apparently owing to the
brake thing plus the leaves on the Uxbridge line trains on the Piccadilly Line
are the most susceptible to flats. Which is why it was such a great idea
to put the only truing lathe in the maintenance pit at Northfelds depot
where its use would preclude other maintenance functions.

Although of course unlike the stroppy drivers who are all to real to some people
this stuff is only "rumours" appearing on blogs etc rather than LU hand-outs


michael adams

...

In message , at
10:01:56 on Mon, 10 Apr 2017, michael adams
remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach
to maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO
this isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a combination of medium term
weather conditions plus one of the big storms) the only way to prevent the wheel flats
would be to stop running the trains.

Or how about taking the first two or three scheduled trains out of service,
in both directions on the Uxbridge line where most of the problems
appear to arise, and run the RAT up and down instead between Acton Town
and Uxbridge ?

You are assuming they have such trains for the stretch from Acton Town
to Rayners Lane.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:07:57 +0100
"michael adams" wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
But the union still used it as an excuse for industrial
action.

The union didn't use it as an "excuse" for anything. Although possibly they
were
justifiably disappointed that the first recourse of LT management
whenever drivers report a problem who's effects aren't manifestly
apparent, is to suggest that the drivers are lying or making things up.

Perhaps if the drivers didn't cry wolf so often people might actually believe
them occasionally. Sadly those bridges burned and collapsed long ago. They only
have themselves to blame for the publics complete cynicism with anything they
have to say which of course emboldens management. It would seem the unions
and their members are too dim to see the long term consequences of calling
strikes for fatuous reasons. But then I suppose if you're fairly smart you
don't drive a train for a living.

--
Spud

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:07:57 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...

You may well know that, and his fellow drivers may well know that,
but do the general public ? If B J's example is allowed as a real
possibility, is it realistic to suppose that LU would immediately
own up to real possibility that their trains are at fault, without
first holding some sort of internal enquiry ?

The question was whether the reports of such door openings were
spurious.

The actual door problem appears to have been acknowledged, investigated and
fixed. It was apparently a fault in a single door engine, and no-one blamed
the driver.

To repeat "The question was whether the reports of such door openings were
spurious".

In other words, when supposedly trusted employees of LT, trusted sufficiently
to be able to drive trains at least., report a problem with doors, "a question"
immediately arises as to whether they're simply telling lies or not.

And then it turns out that "apparently" the drivers weren't telling lies or making
things up after all.

That's what you're saying in effect, is it not ?

But the union still used it as an excuse for industrial
action.

The union didn't use it as an "excuse" for anything. Although possibly they were
justifiably disappointed that the first recourse of LT management
whenever drivers report a problem who's effects aren't manifestly
apparent, is to suggest that the drivers are lying or making things up.

Although as I've already said, and in answer to your diatribe in your other post
the problem is not that the drivers are always in the right and the management
always in the wrong, but even in those cases where they are in the right they're
inadequately represented such that their point is not put across. If they
employed PR smoothies to represent them in the media as do LU -
then possibly they'd come over better.

As to management and the board. My 3rd most frequently used line is the
Central Line. For the new stock some genius presumably persuaded numerous
committees and boards that it would be a nice idea to have wrap around
windows up to the ceiling to allow the punters to better view the Essex
countryside.

I assume you're new to London? Otherwise, you might remember the
extensive public testing of three different prototype trains before
the current Central Line trains were ordered. The trains that were
ordered were based on the most popular of the new designs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London...und_1986_Stock

As for them being "new", I'm sure the LU management will be pleased
that one of its most severe, if uninformed, critics regards 25
year-old trains as "new". Perhaps you've also not noticed that the
three subsequent deep tube stock designs haven't had the wrap-over
windows you so hate.

Unfortunately it was only after the new stock came on stream
that it was realised that in the absence of air-conditioning the insides of the
car became unbearably hot in sunny weather. Like little greenhouses
in fact. Now who'd have thought ? So that as result all the windows ended up
tinted. Which while maybe looking stylish to types attracted to that sort of thing
had the unfortunate result that passengers standing outside on the platform are
unable to see inside and which carriages are full and which are empty.
One possible solution might be to blank out the additional window area with
opaque film do reducing it to what it was before. However that's unlikely to
happen as it would be a living testament to the monumental
cock-up that was seemingly perpetrated at all levels of LT management.
Instead Central Line passengers are going to have to suffer a situation
where they can't see inside a train before boarding for the next, what
40 years ?

You may hate LU management, but even they don't try and keep trains in
service for 65 years. Perhaps you'd like to comment on the likely
designs for the replacement stock?


Oh and having done a bit of reading up. Apparently owing to the
brake thing plus the leaves on the Uxbridge line trains on the Piccadilly Line
are the most susceptible to flats.

Yes, I'm glad you've read the document I linked to.


Which is why it was such a great idea
to put the only truing lathe in the maintenance pit at Northfelds depot
where its use would preclude other maintenance functions.

As you're such an expert, where would you have placed the wheel lathe?


Although of course unlike the stroppy drivers who are all to real to some people
this stuff is only "rumours" appearing on blogs etc rather than LU hand-outs

Unfortunately, the rail unions have acquired a bad reputation for
lying, so the default assumption now is that anything they say is
unlikely to be true.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 10:01:56 +0100, "michael adams"
wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...
In message , at 13:41:52 on Sat, 8
Apr 2017, michael adams remarked:
My technical knowledge is limited but as I understand it anyway
this was because of wheel flats, and the problem was solved eventually
by refacing the effected wheels on lathes.

Now while on the one hand maybe, taking a belt and braces approach
to maintenance is uneconomic in today's climate, nevertheless IMO
this isn't a situation which shouldn't have been allowed to develop in the
first place.

If there's a massive leaf-fall (as happened last Autumn as a combination of medium term
weather conditions plus one of the big storms) the only way to prevent the wheel flats
would be to stop running the trains.

Or how about taking the first two or three scheduled trains out of service,
in both directions on the Uxbridge line where most of the problems
appear to arise, and run the RAT up and down instead between Acton Town
and Uxbridge ?

How many RATs does LU have that can run on the Piccadilly Line? In
fact, LU also ran the A-stock RAT on the Rayner's Lane to Ealing
Common section because of the problems.