In message , at 20:27:13 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

1. SPILL to Bedford. Already electrified, but only designed for 100mph
trains. There was a project to upgrade it for more, faster trains, but I
don't know if that project will continue. If it doesn't, IEPs will have
good acceleration, but lower top speeds than the old diesels.

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

2. Bedford to Kettering. Newly electrified,

Is it, already?

Not completed, but intended to be.

We are talking about NR and Grayling here. The only thing you can
reasonably expect is that whatever they claim today may change tomorrow.

suitable for 125 mph electric
or diesel trains. IEPs will outperform the existing diesels.

3. Kettering to Leicester and on to Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield.
Electrification work started,

Just a few bridge works.

but work will be suspended indefinitely. Bi-mode IEPs will be able to
run, but performance will be worse than current diesel trains,
specially the Meridians.

So keep the Meridians.

Yes, but not the HSTs.

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:27:13 on
Wed, 2 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:

1. SPILL to Bedford. Already electrified, but only designed for 100mph
trains. There was a project to upgrade it for more, faster trains, but I
don't know if that project will continue. If it doesn't, IEPs will have
good acceleration, but lower top speeds than the old diesels.

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.


2. Bedford to Kettering. Newly electrified,

Is it, already?

Not completed, but intended to be.

We are talking about NR and Grayling here. The only thing you can
reasonably expect is that whatever they claim today may change tomorrow.

suitable for 125 mph electric
or diesel trains. IEPs will outperform the existing diesels.

3. Kettering to Leicester and on to Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield.
Electrification work started,

Just a few bridge works.

but work will be suspended indefinitely. Bi-mode IEPs will be able to
run, but performance will be worse than current diesel trains,
specially the Meridians.

So keep the Meridians.

Yes, but not the HSTs.

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.

Doubt it all you like…

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.

Doubt it all you like…

It makes no sense to have an IEP mini-fleet to run 1tph.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:28:02 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

Class 802/2s have been ordered for Hull Trains (5) and TPE (19).
You'll be delighted that this is confirmed by Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...#Fleet_details

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.

Doubt it all you like…

It makes no sense to have an IEP mini-fleet to run 1tph.

There's six HSTs. Grayling says bi-modes will replace them. Can you
think of any other bi-modes available for immediate purchase with 100+
mph capability? If Hull trains can operate five, why shouldn't EMT?
Presumably Hitachi will maintain them.

On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:50:05 +0100, Recliner
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:28:02 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

Class 802/2s have been ordered for Hull Trains (5) and TPE (19).
You'll be delighted that this is confirmed by Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...#Fleet_details

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.

Doubt it all you like…

It makes no sense to have an IEP mini-fleet to run 1tph.

There's six HSTs. Grayling says bi-modes will replace them. Can you
think of any other bi-modes available for immediate purchase with 100+
mph capability? If Hull trains can operate five, why shouldn't EMT?
Presumably Hitachi will maintain them.

Actually, I've just looked again at the Rail article, and it sounds
like the class 802 order could be much larger. It talks about bi-modes
to Sheffield, which suggests that more or even the whole of the
existing diesel fleet (27x222s and 9 HSTs) could be replaced by 802s.

I suppose it'll be decided by the DfT this summer, as there won't be
time for the next franchise operator to select an HST replacement
before they have to go, and it makes little sense for Stagecoach to
select the new stock as it may have lost the franchise before it
arrives (as with the 707s on SWT). As Grayling is confidently talking
about bi-modes, the decision may well have been taken already. They
may ask for bids, but I don't see who but Hitachi could deliver in
time.

In message , at 12:50:05 on
Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:28:02 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

Class 802/2s have been ordered for Hull Trains (5) and TPE (19).
You'll be delighted that this is confirmed by Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...#Fleet_details

Glad to see you have joined the "Wikipedia says it" bandwagon.

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.

Doubt it all you like…

It makes no sense to have an IEP mini-fleet to run 1tph.

There's six HSTs.

Wiki says they have 24 power cars. I agree that you probably only
actually need about six sets. But Cricklewood has numerous parked up
during the day (rather than shuttling between Nottingham and London).

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sear...03/0200-0159?s
tp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=EM

Grayling says bi-modes will replace them.

He's waffling.

Can you think of any other bi-modes available for immediate purchase
with 100+ mph capability? If Hull trains can operate five, why
shouldn't EMT? Presumably Hitachi will maintain them.

More likely EMT's successor will get Hull's Adelante's cascaded to them,
like the Pioneers before them.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:50:05 on
Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner remarked:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:28:02 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

Class 802/2s have been ordered for Hull Trains (5) and TPE (19).
You'll be delighted that this is confirmed by Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...#Fleet_details

Glad to see you have joined the "Wikipedia says it" bandwagon.

There's only one tph (to Nottingham) operated by HSTs, and now
electrification has been cancelled they'll have to find something else
to replace the HST. But I doubt it'll be IEPs.

Doubt it all you like…

It makes no sense to have an IEP mini-fleet to run 1tph.

There's six HSTs.

Wiki says they have 24 power cars. I agree that you probably only
actually need about six sets. But Cricklewood has numerous parked up
during the day (rather than shuttling between Nottingham and London).

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sear...03/0200-0159?s
tp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=EM

Grayling says bi-modes will replace them.

He's waffling.

No, you're the one who's waffling, having already told us that no IEPs had
been ordered other than for GWR and EC, and that no magazines had yet
covered the story that IEPs would be used on the MML.


Can you think of any other bi-modes available for immediate purchase
with 100+ mph capability? If Hull trains can operate five, why
shouldn't EMT? Presumably Hitachi will maintain them.

More likely EMT's successor will get Hull's Adelante's cascaded to them,
like the Pioneers before them.

You seem to have developed a taste for being repeatedly proved wrong…

I don't think we'll have long to wait for the class 802 order; the only
question is how many. I suspect it may be another mass extinction job.

On 03/08/2017 12:50, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:28:02 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

Class 802/2s have been ordered for Hull Trains (5) and TPE (19).

IEP is a DfT procurement programme, rather than a type of rolling stock.
The Hull Trains and TPE trains (and some of the GWR ones) are being
bought conventionally by "normal" ROSCOs, rather than as part of the IEP.

cf random industrial saddle tanks not necessarily being J94s, or Javelin
being a brand name for a service to Stratford during the 2012 Olympics
which was operated on behalf of (cont'd platform 94)

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 03/08/2017 12:50, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 12:28:02 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 07:19:00 on Thu, 3 Aug 2017, Recliner
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

Class 802/2s have been ordered for Hull Trains (5) and TPE (19).

IEP is a DfT procurement programme, rather than a type of rolling stock.
The Hull Trains and TPE trains (and some of the GWR ones) are being
bought conventionally by "normal" ROSCOs, rather than as part of the IEP.

Yes, I know, but it's a convenient, widely-used shorthand that everyone
understands. And this stock might well be ordered by the DfT anyway.


cf random industrial saddle tanks not necessarily being J94s, or Javelin
being a brand name for a service to Stratford during the 2012 Olympics
which was operated on behalf of (cont'd platform 94)

In message , at
00:02:59 on Sat, 5 Aug 2017, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

But IEPs aren't expected on that line.

Aren't they...

No, all the ones on order are spoken for by VTEC and GWR.

Not true: do your research.

Cite please.

Class 802/2s have been ordered for Hull Trains (5) and TPE (19).

IEP is a DfT procurement programme, rather than a type of rolling
stock. The Hull Trains and TPE trains (and some of the GWR ones) are
being bought conventionally by "normal" ROSCOs, rather than as part of
the IEP.

While I agree with that, until an order is placed for class
800-something for the MML then it's just as much vapourware
as this for 'The North':

"... deploying alternative-fuel trains on the route by 2021",

the date for the MML refranchise,

the deadline for new tiolets in HSTs,

and most ludicrous: "hydrogen power".

ps. and there's always the weasel words - "subject to business case"
--
Roland Perry