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Northern Line Battersea extension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:01:47 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Great idea! Walking along tracks is bloody awful. If there is an evac then a walkway will speed things up enormously. Same with getting mechanics to problem scenes. It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. He mentioned a possible future extension to Clapham Jct! |
Northern Line Battersea extension
Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Interesting. Of course, the DLR bored tunnels are similar. I wonder if the Crossrail tunnels are also wide enough for a walkway, alongside the mainline-size trains? The larger tunnel will also reduce wind resistance and tunnel heating. It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. It would be nice if it's open to the public, but I suspect it isn't. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
Offramp wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:01:47 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Great idea! Walking along tracks is bloody awful. If there is an evac then a walkway will speed things up enormously. Same with getting mechanics to problem scenes. It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. He mentioned a possible future extension to Clapham Jct! I think there was always going to be passive provision for such an extension, simply by having the terminus tunnels point the right way, but with no current plan (or funding) to go any further. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 09:44:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: Offramp wrote: On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:01:47 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Great idea! Walking along tracks is bloody awful. If there is an evac then a walkway will speed things up enormously. Same with getting mechanics to problem scenes. It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. He mentioned a possible future extension to Clapham Jct! I think there was always going to be passive provision for such an extension, simply by having the terminus tunnels point the right way, but with no current plan (or funding) to go any further. Can't see it happening. There's no way the northern would cope with the shear number of passengers who would use it from there. While its nice to see crossrail and this extension, it would be even better if the government would spend even a fraction of the cost of these on improving public transport in the northern cities. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 09:44:33 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: Offramp wrote: On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:01:47 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Great idea! Walking along tracks is bloody awful. If there is an evac then a walkway will speed things up enormously. Same with getting mechanics to problem scenes. It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. He mentioned a possible future extension to Clapham Jct! I think there was always going to be passive provision for such an extension, simply by having the terminus tunnels point the right way, but with no current plan (or funding) to go any further. Can't see it happening. There's no way the northern would cope with the shear number of passengers who would use it from there. Yes, I agree. While its nice to see crossrail and this extension, it would be even better if the government would spend even a fraction of the cost of these on improving public transport in the northern cities. This extension was largely funded by the local property developers, not the government. Similarly, a large part of the Crossrail 2 funding will have to come from London itself, either from property levies or direct contributions from property developers. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:29:47 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: While its nice to see crossrail and this extension, it would be even better if the government would spend even a fraction of the cost of these on improving public transport in the northern cities. This extension was largely funded by the local property developers, not the government. Similarly, a large part of the Crossrail 2 funding will have to come from London itself, either from property levies or direct contributions from property developers. All offset against earnings for tax reasons naturally. Still, no reason that sort of scheme couldn't be used at least in part oop narth. Manchester is pretty much the UKs 2nd city now economically if not in population (sorry brum) and a bit more cash splashed that way could only be a good thing. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:29:47 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: While its nice to see crossrail and this extension, it would be even better if the government would spend even a fraction of the cost of these on improving public transport in the northern cities. This extension was largely funded by the local property developers, not the government. Similarly, a large part of the Crossrail 2 funding will have to come from London itself, either from property levies or direct contributions from property developers. All offset against earnings for tax reasons naturally. Still, no reason that sort of scheme couldn't be used at least in part oop narth. Manchester is pretty much the UKs 2nd city now economically if not in population (sorry brum) and a bit more cash splashed that way could only be a good thing. The Ordsall Chord is now almost complete so, at last, Piccadilly and Victoria stations will have a direct heavy rail link. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runnin...ordsall-chord/ And, yes, before anyone says it, it's a pity that it came at the expense of the MoSI link to the rail network. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
In message , at 10:56:30 on Wed, 27 Sep
2017, remarked: Manchester is pretty much the UKs 2nd city now economically if not in population (sorry brum) and a bit more cash splashed that way could only be a good thing. More than the cash splashed that way which currently subsidises their trains at 35p per passenger mile? -- Roland Perry |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 11:20:07 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:29:47 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: While its nice to see crossrail and this extension, it would be even better if the government would spend even a fraction of the cost of these on improving public transport in the northern cities. This extension was largely funded by the local property developers, not the government. Similarly, a large part of the Crossrail 2 funding will have to come from London itself, either from property levies or direct contributions from property developers. All offset against earnings for tax reasons naturally. Still, no reason that sort of scheme couldn't be used at least in part oop narth. Manchester is pretty much the UKs 2nd city now economically if not in population (sorry brum) and a bit more cash splashed that way could only be a good thing. The Ordsall Chord is now almost complete so, at last, Piccadilly and Victoria stations will have a direct heavy rail link. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runnin...ordsall-chord/ And, yes, before anyone says it, it's a pity that it came at the expense of the MoSI link to the rail network. Heavy rail is always a good thing, but tbh Manchester and half a dozen other cities around the UK (particularly Bristol IMO, its almost gridlock there now) need a proper metro system, not just trams that get stuck in traffic and never get above 20mph in the city centres. Or if thats too expensive, pre-metro type systems that are popular in europe - tram rolling stock that has street and rail line running in the burbs but runs in tunnel through the centre. Rouen in France is a good example of this and London had it at Holborn. If europe can afford it so can we, that they don't get built is purely political not financial. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On 2017\09\27 10:44, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Interesting. Of course, the DLR bored tunnels are similar. I wonder if the Crossrail tunnels are also wide enough for a walkway, alongside the mainline-size trains? The larger tunnel will also reduce wind resistance and tunnel heating. It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. It would be nice if it's open to the public, but I suspect it isn't. The sign says "Pedestrian and visitor entrance." The viewing platform has one of those information boards that you get at National Trust viewpoints. I doubt it would have that if you could only get there on booked shepherded tours like the one Geoff had. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\09\27 10:44, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Interesting. Of course, the DLR bored tunnels are similar. I wonder if the Crossrail tunnels are also wide enough for a walkway, alongside the mainline-size trains? The larger tunnel will also reduce wind resistance and tunnel heating. It looks like the public can get into a raised viewing platform over the Battersea Power Station Station. It would be nice if it's open to the public, but I suspect it isn't. The sign says "Pedestrian and visitor entrance." The viewing platform has one of those information boards that you get at National Trust viewpoints. I doubt it would have that if you could only get there on booked shepherded tours like the one Geoff had. Ah, that sounds promising! |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On 2017\09\27 08:14, Offramp wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:01:47 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Great idea! Walking along tracks is bloody awful. No, walking on sleepers is bloody awful. Walking along the tarmac between tram tracks is okay. The benefit of the walkway beside the train is mainly for wheelchairs. We have doubled the amount of spoil from new tube extensions just for wheelchair users. Having said that, a diversity firework in a train in the new tunnel might only cause serious injuries in one carriage, as the walkway would let the blast dissipate. He mentioned a possible future extension to Clapham Jct! I'll believe that when I ride on it. Would their contract with the train manufacturers allow extra 95 stock for that, or would it have to wait until the 95s are replaced? |
Northern Line Battersea extension
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\09\27 08:14, Offramp wrote: On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:01:47 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Great idea! Walking along tracks is bloody awful. No, walking on sleepers is bloody awful. Walking along the tarmac between tram tracks is okay. The benefit of the walkway beside the train is mainly for wheelchairs. We have doubled the amount of spoil from new tube extensions just for wheelchair users. Having said that, a diversity firework in a train in the new tunnel might only cause serious injuries in one carriage, as the walkway would let the blast dissipate. He mentioned a possible future extension to Clapham Jct! I'll believe that when I ride on it. Would their contract with the train manufacturers allow extra 95 stock for that, or would it have to wait until the 95s are replaced? More stock is being procured, both for the Battersea extension, and more intensive services on the whole line. It will probably look similar to the current 95 stock, but may be technically more advanced. I don't think there's any prospect of a further extension to Clapham Junction during the remaining life of the 95s. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 13:37:14 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:56:30 on Wed, 27 Sep 2017, remarked: Manchester is pretty much the UKs 2nd city now economically if not in population (sorry brum) and a bit more cash splashed that way could only be a good thing. More than the cash splashed that way which currently subsidises their trains at 35p per passenger mile? I don't really care tbh. The regional cities need to be opened up for busines far more than they are and for that you need decent public transport. They figured this out in europe decades ago but it seems to elude british governments. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
It can't be too expensive to construct a really modern Wupperthal Dangelbahn around these big cities.
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Northern Line Battersea extension
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Northern Line Battersea extension
"Offramp" wrote in message ... On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 08:01:47 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6RWMaAtTOY The tunnels have TWICE the cross section area of existing tube tunnels, to allow a walkway! Great idea! Walking along tracks is bloody awful. If there is an evac then a walkway will speed things up enormously. Same with getting mechanics to problem scenes. and how many times a decade is there an evacuation? and, assuming a theoretical equal chance [1] of that happening anywhere in the network how many times a century will an evacuation occur at this specific location? tim [1] which may not be correct but I have no way of determining otherwise |
Northern Line Battersea extension
"Offramp" wrote in message ... It can't be too expensive to construct a really modern Wupperthal Dangelbahn around these big cities. but not all of them have suitable rivers tim |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On 2017\09\27 19:46, tim... wrote:
"Offramp" wrote in message ... It can't be too expensive to construct a really modern Wupperthal Dangelbahn around these big cities. but not all of them have suitable rivers Yes, you don't want to drop an elephant on the ground. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On 27/09/2017 18:05, Offramp wrote:
It can't be too expensive to construct a really modern Wupperthal Dangelbahn around these big cities. Sadly one tautology seems to be that building anything transport related in the UK is never "can't be too expensive" |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 19:42:44 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 15:50:19 on Wed, 27 Sep 2017, remarked: Manchester is pretty much the UKs 2nd city now economically if not in population (sorry brum) and a bit more cash splashed that way could only be a good thing. More than the cash splashed that way which currently subsidises their trains at 35p per passenger mile? I don't really care tbh. The regional cities need to be opened up for busines far more than they are and for that you need decent public transport. They figured this out in europe decades ago but it seems to elude british governments. Manchester has a vast railway network, but the locals either don't use Vast compared to what? There are large parts of the north and south of the city and satellite towns/suburbs that arn't anywhere near a train station. it, or won't pay for it. Train users in London, like yourself, are paying for much of it. I pay for a lot of things in my taxes that I never use. Thats how taxation works. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
In message , at 08:39:16 on Thu, 28 Sep
2017, remarked: Manchester has a vast railway network Vast compared to what? There are large parts of the north and south of the city and satellite towns/suburbs that arn't anywhere near a train station. Compared to other big cities outside London (other than perhaps Birmingham and Glasgow). This map gives a good birds eye view of the phenomenon: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static...temaps/nationa lrailoperatorsmapZoom.pdf Train users in London, like yourself, are paying for much of it. I pay for a lot of things in my taxes that I never use. Thats how taxation works. Londoners are paying in their fares. On latest available figures, about 9p per passenger mile on Southern and SWT (as was) being an excess shunted off to subsidise lines like Northern (receiving 30ppm more than the national average) and TPE. -- Roland Perry |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:10:41 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:39:16 on Thu, 28 Sep 2017, remarked: Manchester has a vast railway network Vast compared to what? There are large parts of the north and south of the city and satellite towns/suburbs that arn't anywhere near a train station. Compared to other big cities outside London (other than perhaps Birmingham and Glasgow). This map gives a good birds eye view of the phenomenon: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static...temaps/nationa lrailoperatorsmapZoom.pdf Train users in London, like yourself, are paying for much of it. I pay for a lot of things in my taxes that I never use. Thats how taxation works. Londoners are paying in their fares. On latest available figures, about Thats 2 seperate issues. Londoners getting screwed on fares doesn't mean that the northern cities shouldn't have decent public transport infrastructure. |
Northern Line Battersea extension
In message , at 10:15:45 on Thu, 28 Sep
2017, remarked: Manchester has a vast railway network Vast compared to what? There are large parts of the north and south of the city and satellite towns/suburbs that arn't anywhere near a train station. Compared to other big cities outside London (other than perhaps Birmingham and Glasgow). This map gives a good birds eye view of the phenomenon: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static...temaps/nationa lrailoperatorsmapZoom.pdf Train users in London, like yourself, are paying for much of it. I pay for a lot of things in my taxes that I never use. Thats how taxation works. Londoners are paying in their fares. On latest available figures, about Thats 2 seperate issues. Londoners getting screwed on fares doesn't mean that the northern cities shouldn't have decent public transport infrastructure. Except where's the money coming from? Currently the vast amount being "screwed" out of Londoners as the cross-subsidy isn't enough to stop the northerners whinging. -- Roland Perry |
Northern Line Battersea extension
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:07:46 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:15:45 on Thu, 28 Sep 2017, remarked: Manchester has a vast railway network Vast compared to what? There are large parts of the north and south of the city and satellite towns/suburbs that arn't anywhere near a train station. Compared to other big cities outside London (other than perhaps Birmingham and Glasgow). This map gives a good birds eye view of the phenomenon: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static...temaps/nationa lrailoperatorsmapZoom.pdf Train users in London, like yourself, are paying for much of it. I pay for a lot of things in my taxes that I never use. Thats how taxation works. Londoners are paying in their fares. On latest available figures, about Thats 2 seperate issues. Londoners getting screwed on fares doesn't mean that the northern cities shouldn't have decent public transport infrastructure. Except where's the money coming from? Currently the vast amount being "screwed" out of Londoners as the cross-subsidy isn't enough to stop the northerners whinging. Dare I say the money thats going to be spent on HS2 would have been far better spent on local rail and metro projects. The government always finds money when it wants to, even where the economic case is flakey bordering on non existant as it is with HS2. |
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