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Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. - The Mail Rail and Postal Museum are in different buildings on opposite sides of Phoenix Place, about 90m apart. You have separate tickets for both. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Recliner wrote:
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
"Recliner" wrote in message ... Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR was "automatic"? PA |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message
-sept ember.org, at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Recliner wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Snipped the stuff I forgot to finish last time, sorry - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? I mean, I'd like to see a demonstration of the previous, automatic operation. Perhaps 'unmanned operation' would have been a better phrase. I'm not aware of the line having been used for any testing, trials or otherwise. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Peter Able wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR was "automatic"? I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life, it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'. Apart from having drivers, the new trains have one other difference: they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message
-septe mber.org, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septe mber.org, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Through the depot surface access, of course. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR was "automatic"? I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life, it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'. On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train? Apart from having drivers, the new trains have one other difference: they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end. The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings... Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septe mber.org, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Same way they got the original trains in and out, presumably; the depot must have some kind of suitable access. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Recliner wrote: Peter Able wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR was "automatic"? I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life, it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'. On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train? They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on. There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward. Apart from having drivers, the new trains have one other difference: they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end. The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings... I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in and out of the depot). Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to the east of Mount Pleasant station. Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station. I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power, but I think they must have been. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message -septe mber.org, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Same way they got the original trains in and out, presumably; the depot must have some kind of suitable access. Yes |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 23:49:28 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Peter Able wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR was "automatic"? I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life, it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'. On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train? They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on. There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward. Apart from having drivers, the new trains have one other difference: they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end. The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings... I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in and out of the depot). Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to the east of Mount Pleasant station. Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station. I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power, but I think they must have been. Spring brakes held off while traction current was present. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message
-sept ember.org, at 21:49:11 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Through the depot surface access, of course. So they can use that for other trains too. -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 21:49:11 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Through the depot surface access, of course. So they can use that for other trains too. Not without dismantling the museum. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 23:49:28 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Peter Able wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR was "automatic"? I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life, it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'. On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train? They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on. There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward. Apart from having drivers, the new trains have one other difference: they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end. The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings... I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in and out of the depot). Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to the east of Mount Pleasant station. Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station. I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power, but I think they must have been. Spring brakes held off while traction current was present. Yes, that sounds right. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message
-septe mber.org, at 09:01:35 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Through the depot surface access, of course. So they can use that for other trains too. Not without dismantling the museum. The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface access to the depot? -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message , at 16:44:49 on Sun, 11 Mar
2018, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. From the site's FAQ: "Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface." -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septe mber.org, at 09:01:35 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Through the depot surface access, of course. So they can use that for other trains too. Not without dismantling the museum. The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface access to the depot? I'm talking about the Mail Rail exhibition/museum in the former depot under the Mount Pleasant GPO site, not the entirely separate Postal Museum. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:49 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. From the site's FAQ: "Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface." If the ride was extended to loop round the next station, there would need to be an evacuation route through that station. The potential walk through the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station. They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at enthusiasts, not families. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message
-sept ember.org, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:44:49 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. From the site's FAQ: "Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface." If the ride was extended to loop round the next station, Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension. there would need to be an evacuation route through that station. Every station will have some kind of access to ground level. The potential walk through the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station. They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at enthusiasts, not families. The AV shows aren't aimed at enthusiasts, so probably just a longer ride would be sufficient. -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message
-sept ember.org, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Through the depot surface access, of course. So they can use that for other trains too. Not without dismantling the museum. The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface access to the depot? I'm talking about the Mail Rail exhibition/museum in the former depot under the Mount Pleasant GPO site, not the entirely separate Postal Museum. That's alongside the running tracks down to the tunnels, not in the way of them. I suppose you noticed that some running tracks remained in the waiting area? -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:44:49 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. From the site's FAQ: "Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface." If the ride was extended to loop round the next station, Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension. there would need to be an evacuation route through that station. Every station will have some kind of access to ground level. They did when they were active stations on Mail Rail. And even then, they were used by the workers on the railway, and probably emerged inside the mail sorting area above. That may be owned by someone else now, and the route to the tunnel sealed off. The potential walk through the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station. They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at enthusiasts, not families. The AV shows aren't aimed at enthusiasts, so probably just a longer ride would be sufficient. The museum people who run Mail Rail probably wouldn't see it that way. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there? The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway. That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in there?" Through the depot surface access, of course. So they can use that for other trains too. Not without dismantling the museum. The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface access to the depot? I'm talking about the Mail Rail exhibition/museum in the former depot under the Mount Pleasant GPO site, not the entirely separate Postal Museum. That's alongside the running tracks down to the tunnels, not in the way of them. I suppose you noticed that some running tracks remained in the waiting area? The waiting and film show area is on a false floor on top of the former depot floor, complete with tracks. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
In message
-septem ber.org, at 09:58:59 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension. there would need to be an evacuation route through that station. Every station will have some kind of access to ground level. They did when they were active stations on Mail Rail. And even then, they were used by the workers on the railway, and probably emerged inside the mail sorting area above. That may be owned by someone else now, and the route to the tunnel sealed off. Or it may not. (Plus, it's commonplace for closed tunnels to maintain an inspection access, even when the building on the surface has been re-purposed). The potential walk through the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station. They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at enthusiasts, not families. The AV shows aren't aimed at enthusiasts, so probably just a longer ride would be sufficient. The museum people who run Mail Rail probably wouldn't see it that way. Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension. -- Roland Perry |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message 2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng- , at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011: https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ving-the-mail- rail/ Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Recliner wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: Peter Able wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Recliner wrote: I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of course, I didn't get a ride that time. For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few observations and pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587 - You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins before. - They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every 20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins). - The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much quieter (fewer rampaging kids). - The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify it. - There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on the platform. - The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot, which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs down, so most people won't need the lift. - The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays, confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into thinking that there were used on Mail Rail. - The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount Pleasant station for audio-visual shows. - The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after passing through the platform, and then returning through the other platform. - The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage. - The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs. - The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too much pressure on them). - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. True Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR was "automatic"? I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life, it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'. On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train? They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on. There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward. Apart from having drivers, the new trains have one other difference: they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end. The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings... I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in and out of the depot). Four of the stations had sidings-suitable-for-reversing, as well as loops. I don't know the details, and I haven't yet visited the PO museum, so I may well be wrong, but it seems unlikely that all of them were provided solely for stabling of engineering trains; I'm pretty sure that the battery locos weren't allowed out during normal traffic hours because they weren't part of the 'signalling' system (presence or lack of line voltage). Perhaps a negative voltage could be applied to the siding to get the train back into the platform in order for its direction to be switched? Edit: from another post in this thread, https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-rail/ has a close up of one of the power units. It has a handle, behind which is a plate which reads 'point handle in direction for running'. Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to the east of Mount Pleasant station. Correct. Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station. Only Mount Pleasant had that many crossovers. Some of the others didn't have any crossovers at all, others had just two platform sections. I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power, but I think they must have been. AFAIK they were. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:44:49 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. From the site's FAQ: "Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface." Going further into the tunnels would mean a walk back to Mount Pleasant for emergency access. The next station in either direction is 1.4km... Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -sept ember.org, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:44:49 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: - They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the battery capacity for the extra distances involved. Problems include lack of emergency exits. From the site's FAQ: "Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface." If the ride was extended to loop round the next station, Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension. But that's what was being discussed in the post you replied to. there would need to be an evacuation route through that station. Every station will have some kind of access to ground level. They used to have, obviously, but I believe that most are now blocked off. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septem ber.org, at 09:58:59 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension. there would need to be an evacuation route through that station. Every station will have some kind of access to ground level. They did when they were active stations on Mail Rail. And even then, they were used by the workers on the railway, and probably emerged inside the mail sorting area above. That may be owned by someone else now, and the route to the tunnel sealed off. Or it may not. (Plus, it's commonplace for closed tunnels to maintain an inspection access, even when the building on the surface has been re-purposed). I believe most of them are sealed off. The inspection access is via Mount Pleasant... Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
Roland Perry wrote:
In message 2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng- , at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011: https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ving-the-mail- rail/ One of the pictures in that post answers a question from another post, thanks! There's a handle on the power units with a plate behind which reads 'point handle in direction for running'. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
wrote:
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message 2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng- , at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011: https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ving-the-mail- rail/ Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be. Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the set up? I'm sure it was all risk-assessed. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
On 12/03/2018 13:28, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote: On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message 2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng- , at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011: https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ving-the-mail- rail/ Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be. Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the set up? I'm sure it was all risk-assessed. The fabric strap has a steel core I assume. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message 2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng- , at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011: https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ving-the-mail- rail/ Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be. Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the set up? Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong. Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos. I'm sure it was all risk-assessed. I'm sure these were too :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyIrsZ7Zhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mu9jT2DUpQ |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
wrote:
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message 2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng- , at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011: https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ving-the-mail- rail/ Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be. Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the set up? Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong. Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos. There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting the power units. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:51:56 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message 2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng- , at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner remarked: Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it. I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be used for surface access? Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011: https://www.londonreconnections.com/...ving-the-mail- rail/ Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be. Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the set up? Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong. Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos. There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting the power units. I saw 4 metal chains lifting those. Rather thin looking chains IMO given those loco sections must be at least a ton each. |
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
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