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Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a3791496.html
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20, from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected! |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected! I further note that the £12.10 fare is also exactly the same as the cheapest advance purchase single from HEx so presumably LHR has some restriction that it can't be cheaper than the cheapest HEx fare? |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at 10:13:23 on Fri, 16 Mar
2018, Someone Somewhere remarked: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...line-fares-to- match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium- a3791496.html "London Elizabeth line fares to match TfL Tube prices... except where it doesn't" "Mayor Sadiq Khan said: I'm delighted to announce that the cost of travelling on the Elizabeth Line in zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar journey on the Tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge ..." Someone tell him that Heathrow is in Z6! Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20, from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. Does this mean that splitting the trip at a Z2 station will save money? (You'll need two different cards, presumably) And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected! "the new line, which will eventually link Reading with Sheffield and Abbey Wood" Tell me about it! Lots of the post I used to get in Brentwood had first been undeliverable in Brentford. At the time the latter featured in a wall to wall "Brentford Nylons" advertising. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? -- Clive Page |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ...
On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...elizabeth-line -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 2018\03\16 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected! More northerly than North Pole? |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at 12:15:19 on Fri, 16 Mar
2018, Richard J. remarked: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...h/mayor-of-lon don-announces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line What appears to be happening here is that while PAYG fares have a premium, you will reach the existing (and continuing) daily cap very quickly. Verily a tourist tax on people doing one one-way trip to/from Heathrow on a particular day. The fudge continues, even under TfL management, that the ex Heathrow Connect (now Elizabeth Line) stations may be geographically in Z6, but they are not for fares purposes. Apart from this concession about capping/all-day tickets. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote: Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ... On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube- prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...or-of-london-a nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line Or, to be precise, no. It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is entirely unstated. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote: On 2018\03\16 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube- prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected! More northerly than North Pole? Depends on your choice of North Pole. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 16/03/2018 13:26, wrote:
In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ... On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube- prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...or-of-london-a nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line Or, to be precise, no. It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is entirely unstated. Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to Heathrow." mean then? |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 08:26:39 on Fri, 16 Mar 2018, remarked: In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ... On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...s-to-match-tub e-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...yor-of-london- announces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line Or, to be precise, no. It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. "As part of the integrated service, daily fare capping for Oyster and contactless and weekly fare capping for contactless will apply, with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to Heathrow." It also says: "Standard zonal fares will continue to apply for journeys between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, with special single fares applying for journeys to and from Heathrow Airport." No wonder I missed the other reference contradicting that. No mention of Heathrow Express so presumably none of this integration will apply there. It's well written as smoke and mirrors but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is entirely unstated. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 13:49:26 +0000, Someone Somewhere
wrote: On 16/03/2018 13:26, wrote: In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ... On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube- prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...or-of-london-a nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line Or, to be precise, no. It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is entirely unstated. Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to Heathrow." mean then? Probably what you think it does, but the release seems to me to have been written very badly or very carefully, I'm not sure which. Richard. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at 20:55:41 on
Fri, 16 Mar 2018, Richard remarked: It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is entirely unstated. Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to Heathrow." mean then? Probably what you think it does, but the release seems to me to have been written very badly or very carefully, I'm not sure which. It suffers from being a press release about the Mayor's infamous "fare freeze" as much as an announcement about Elizabeth Line fares. Much of the wriggling is because the Elizabeth Line (as discussed here wrt roundels) is "neither fish nor flesh nor fowl" when it comes to being a tube, an Overground or a National Rail line, having as it does a station at Heathrow which both is and isn't in Z6 depending on the ticket you buy. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at 08:37:14 on Sat, 17 Mar
2018, Roland Perry remarked: Much of the wriggling is because the Elizabeth Line (as discussed here wrt roundels) is "neither fish nor flesh nor fowl" when it comes to being a tube, an Overground or a National Rail line, having as it does a station at Heathrow which both is and isn't in Z6 depending on the ticket you buy. I think I'll change that last bit to "or fare you are charged", because until your day's trips are amalgamated under the capping system, all you actually "buy" with smart ticketing is a trip through a gate. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Friday, 16 March 2018 13:26:41 UTC, wrote:
In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Clive Page wrote on 16 Mar 2018 at 11:45 ... On 16/03/2018 10:13, Someone Somewhere wrote: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...to-match-tube- prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,Â* from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares. An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow? Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...or-of-london-a nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line Or, to be precise, no. It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is entirely unstated. To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision. https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/...es-20-may-2018 It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly caps covering travel to Zone 6. All existing concessions also apply to TfL Rail services including the 60+ Pass, Freedom Pass, Veterans Oyster Card and the various child / low income / job seeker reductions. TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a "goodwill" measure from GWR. HEX will remain outside capping and Travelcard schemes. Oyster and Contactless acceptance will begin in the Summer when the gating of HEX's platforms at Paddington is complete. The HEX stations at Heathrow are also being gated as part of this scheme. -- Paul C via Google |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 17/03/2018 20:57, Paul Corfield wrote:
TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a "goodwill" measure from GWR. Whilst I appreciate many staff are low paid (although many aren't), I don't quite understand why HAL gets or expects a goodwill measure from GWR when they then insist on charging or minimum fares (which is what this is) for access to their infrastructure... And the clamouring about whether freedom passes are valid is starting to be irksome - they are a concession, not a right. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at
13:57:35 on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, Paul Corfield remarked: To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision. https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/...es-20-may-2018 It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly caps covering travel to Zone 6. What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares such as: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...&ldn=1&tkt=SVR and http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...st=ZHJ&tkt=SVR will be affected (if at all). Although one obvious conclusion be "not at all". In other words the Elizabeth Line trip won't count as 'underground' for such fares, even if they presumably would for outboundary Travelcards. The results in an anomaly for day tickets where for £50.50 one will be able to get a [valid on Lizzy Line] outboundary travelcard: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...d=0035&tkt=ADT But it would cost £84.90 to do the same trip on a SDR: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?o...d=0035&tkt=ADT -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at 08:16:12 on Sun, 18 Mar
2018, Someone Somewhere remarked: TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a "goodwill" measure from GWR. Whilst I appreciate many staff are low paid (although many aren't), I don't quite understand why HAL gets or expects a goodwill measure from GWR when they then insist on charging or minimum fares (which is what this is) for access to their infrastructure... The answer to that is fairly simple. Heathrow Connect exists almost entirely as a way for staff to get to and from the airport. The occasional tourist using it as a HEx-lite is almost a loophole. The arrangement between Heathrow and GWR for the use of HEx infrastructure will no doubt reflect the fact that GWR is in effect waiving the airport premium for airport workers. Everyone wins, because GWR get the bums on seats because the fares are competitive with other means of workers getting to the airport, and the airport gets to bask in the modal shift (which includes meeting targets for pollution/congestion, and the cost of providing parking) for those workers whose alternative to Heathrow Connect would be driving. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:53:11 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 13:57:35 on Sat, 17 Mar 2018, Paul Corfield remarked: To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision. https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/...-fares-20-may- 018 It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly caps covering travel to Zone 6. What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares such as: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at 09:39:40 on Mon, 19 Mar
2018, remarked: To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision. https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/...-fares-20-may- 018 It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly caps covering travel to Zone 6. What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares such as: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube, which differs from the flat fare on a train. I don't think Sadiq can afford to have £1.50 flat fares across the whole of the TfL empire; he can't even afford to keep his price-pledge when part of the journey is on NR trains. The obvious and simple solution is to make Heathow unequivocally in zone 6, except that would also be costly because: (a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx (b) you'd lose the single-trip[1] "tourist[2] tax" which is most of what this Byzantine fares structure at Heathrow is designed to collect [1] It's notable that TfL is trying to spin "being able to take more than that one single trip, for just 40p extra" as a benefit to tourists, when all it's actually doing is bringing them under the wing of temporary regular commuter fare structure. [2] Which includes, specific to my last posting, Brits living outboundary who depart Heathrow one day, and return on another. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:39:40 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube, which differs from the flat fare on a train. I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping for the tube would be reasonable. With the amount of tourists who go 1 or 2 stops because they're too lazy to walk (no excuse not to have some kind of map these days) they'd probably clean up. (a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway. "You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners, cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex" |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 19/03/2018 11:25, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:39:40 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube, which differs from the flat fare on a train. I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping Does that include travel cards? |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000
Someone Somewhere wrote: On 19/03/2018 11:25, wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:39:40 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube, which differs from the flat fare on a train. I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping Does that include travel cards? What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 19/03/2018 11:46, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000 Someone Somewhere wrote: On 19/03/2018 11:25, wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:39:40 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube, which differs from the flat fare on a train. I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping Does that include travel cards? What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip. Potentially more than doubling the cost of some annual fares? Yes, I can see that being a popular policy.... |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:26:01 +0000
Someone Somewhere wrote: On 19/03/2018 11:46, wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000 Someone Somewhere wrote: On 19/03/2018 11:25, wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:39:40 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube, which differs from the flat fare on a train. I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping Does that include travel cards? What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip. Potentially more than doubling the cost of some annual fares? Yes, I can see that being a popular policy.... Why would it? For people who simply commute in and out it would be cheaper unless they're only commuting within zone 1. If you mean travel cards for national rail, too bad, they can pay the tube fare or walk. The difference would have to be made up somewhere. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On 19/03/2018 12:46, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:26:01 +0000 Someone Somewhere wrote: On 19/03/2018 11:46, wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000 Someone Somewhere wrote: On 19/03/2018 11:25, wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:39:40 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses it can work on TfLs tube and train lines. Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube, which differs from the flat fare on a train. I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping Does that include travel cards? What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip. Potentially more than doubling the cost of some annual fares? Yes, I can see that being a popular policy.... Why would it? For people who simply commute in and out it would be cheaper unless they're only commuting within zone 1. If you mean travel cards for national rail, too bad, they can pay the tube fare or walk. The difference would have to be made up somewhere. 2 journeys a day in zone 3, £6. Include weekends, but no extra trips. 6 * 365 = £2190 Zone 3-4 travelcard = £1020 Yes, there are holidays and so on but then again some people make lots of trips on top of commuting so it may even out. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
|
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:17:14 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:25:15 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: (a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway. "You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners, cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex" Part of the problem with that, is the main reason for HEx is to abstract traffic from black cabs, aiming at the market for whom it's "A cab or the Airport Express", and whatever you do to try to persuade them to use what feels to a visitor like the local metro, doesn't deliver. Possibly, but I would guess that the majority of people who would prefer to take a train to central london don't want to pay extortionate fares only to be dumped at paddington. If anything a new 3rd runway will need HEx even more, to deliver the pollution reduction targets. Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi around a large airport such as Heathrow , the contribution of ground traffic to the overall pollution increase that the 3rd runway will cause is probably negligable. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:54:58 +0000
Someone Somewhere wrote: On 19/03/2018 12:46, wrote: If you mean travel cards for national rail, too bad, they can pay the tube fare or walk. The difference would have to be made up somewhere. 2 journeys a day in zone 3, £6. Include weekends, but no extra trips. 6 * 365 = £2190 Zone 3-4 travelcard = £1020 Zone 1-4 = 1960, 1-5 = 2328, 1-6 = 2492 Plus 3 quid was at my upper limit, 2.50 IMO would be more reasonable so the cost comes down to 5 * 365 = 1825. Subtract weekends and its 5 * 260 = 1300 Yes, there are holidays and so on but then again some people make lots of trips on top of commuting so it may even out. Some people, yes, but with a flat fare someone will always end up paying more or it wouldn't be viable, but everyone benefits from a simpler fare system plus its less costly to administer, the savings of which can be passed back to the passenger. Plus there's a chance fare dodging could drop depending on how they rejigged the entry gates - you can't force your way through or over a head high turnstile (at least not without people noticing) like in the paris metro and numerous football grounds. Exit gates could be a simple waist high one. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at 15:12:21 on Mon, 19 Mar
2018, remarked: On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:17:14 +0000 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:25:15 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: (a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway. "You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners, cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex" Part of the problem with that, is the main reason for HEx is to abstract traffic from black cabs, aiming at the market for whom it's "A cab or the Airport Express", and whatever you do to try to persuade them to use what feels to a visitor like the local metro, doesn't deliver. Possibly, but I would guess that the majority of people who would prefer to take a train to central london don't want to pay extortionate fares only to be dumped at paddington. The same is true of the destination of any "Airport Express" train (or indeed coach). But the point is those travellers now feel comfortable because they are safely "in the big city". If anything a new 3rd runway will need HEx even more, to deliver the pollution reduction targets. Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi around a large airport such as Heathrow , Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road. the contribution of ground traffic to the overall pollution increase that the 3rd runway will cause is probably negligable. Apparently not, and hence the need for the airport to go to extraordinary measures, like building HEx in the first place, to meet the targets. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
I understood what you said about flat fares. You weren't saying THIS MUST BE THE FARE!! In this computer age there is scope for a Parisian carnet style product to be put on a card.
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Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
In message , at
13:15:46 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, Offramp remarked: I understood what you said about flat fares. You weren't saying THIS MUST BE THE FARE!! In this computer age there is scope for a Parisian carnet style product to be put on a card. Part-time seasons (in effect a carnet) were part of the DfT plan for National Rail a couple of years ago. It's gone awfully quiet though. Pre-Oyster I used London Underground paper carnet tickets. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:29:47 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 15:12:21 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, remarked: Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi around a large airport such as Heathrow , Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road. It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former by an order of magnitude. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
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Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:23:05 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:33:39 on Tue, 20 Mar 2018, remarked: Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi around a large airport such as Heathrow , Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road. It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former by an order of magnitude. The figures are available online. As usual, you are completely wrong: "59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28% use rail and 13% bus/coach." Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
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Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:20:23 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:56:57 on Tue, 20 Mar 2018, remarked: Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi around a large airport such as Heathrow , Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road. It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former by an order of magnitude. The figures are available online. As usual, you are completely wrong: "59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28% use rail and 13% bus/coach." Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too. They are included in the car/taxi total, obviously. No **** sherlock. It certainly won't be car drivers, there arn't enough parking spaces. |
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
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Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:54:23 +0000
Roland Perry wrote: As this is UTL, I have to confess the last time was probably around 2010, and parking at Luton Airport *station* (as a backdoor) but only Don't most stations have a parking duration limit which could easily be exceeded by a holiday? |
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