On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 at 20:24:04, Richard J.
wrote:


Complete rubbish. If a wheelchair user needs to access any level other
than ground level, a lift is required. In the event of fire, the lifts
are not available, and people have to use the stairs. In those
circumstances, wheelchair users have to be carried to ground level. The
same applies to tube trains.

I've yet to see a tube train being carried! (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

But on balance I agree; it's a pity, but really the Tube should have
been built 150 years after it was so that the needs of wheelchair users
could have been thought of. As it is, I'm afraid access will always be
rather limited.

Incidentally has anybody actually seen a wheelchair user on a bus yet?
I haven't in this country, although I have in New York; the space
designed for them seems used by young mothers with pushchairs (Oh, how I
envy them; I so remember walking home *miles* in the rain because my
baby was asleep and I would have to wake her to get her out of her
pushchair to get on a bus.....).
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 8 March 2004

Annabel Smyth typed


Incidentally has anybody actually seen a wheelchair user on a bus yet?

I have, on about 4 occasions. Getting the bus close enough to the kerb
to use the exit doors was a problem, as were parked cars.

Ramp problems once led to a bus being taken out of service.

There have been times when the wheelchair users have been a little
aggressive regarding the difficulties boarding or alighting the buses.

As in the newsgroups, this has not endeared them to the others around.

I appreciate life with disability is a challenge, as I live with
increasing disability myself.

I haven't in this country, although I have in New York; the space
designed for them seems used by young mothers with pushchairs (Oh, how I
envy them; I so remember walking home *miles* in the rain because my
baby was asleep and I would have to wake her to get her out of her
pushchair to get on a bus.....).

The baby pushers are also sometimes a touch aggressive...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In message , Annabel Smyth
writes
Incidentally has anybody actually seen a wheelchair user on a bus yet?

A couple of times I've taken a wheelchair-bound friend around much of
Central London by tube, moist recently just last week.

Per se, London's wheelchair access on buses is commendable. Indeed,
the first time we took my friend, it was the first time he'd been on a
bus in over 30 years and that added greatly to our enjoyment and to the
"special" nature of the day.

Last week, we repeated the whole exercise with more mixed results. Two
buses had problems with the ramps, both on the 436. The first, at
Marylebone, was able to put out the ramp but not open the doors at the
same time! Accordingly, we waited for the next bus which worked a
treat.

Later in the day, we boarded a double decker on the 436 (this was just
after the fire problems with then bendis) in Parliament Street
(Whitehall) to return to Marylebone. The ramp came out as sweet as a
nut and the doors opened. Great. Unfortunately, the ramp then
steadfastly refused to retract, causing the bus to become stuck there
and necessitating all the passengers transferring to the bus behind.

All the drivers were extremely patient and understanding (and
apologetic) but they gave us the distinct impression that:

9i) People in wheelchairs don't use buses that often

and

(ii) When they do, things tend to go wrong with the equipment.

The fact is, retracting ramps with a lot of moving parts presumably have
a lot to go wrong and in London's heady conditions this must put a great
strain on the equipment, the more so as more disabled people use the
buses.

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:37:15 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote:

The fact is, retracting ramps with a lot of moving parts presumably have
a lot to go wrong and in London's heady conditions this must put a great
strain on the equipment, the more so as more disabled people use the
buses.

IMO, the manual folding ramps are better - but sadly it is not considered
safe for the driver to leave his cab to unfold one.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
Mail me on neil at the above domain; mail to the above address is NOT read

Neil Williams wrote:

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 19:37:15 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote:

The fact is, retracting ramps with a lot of moving parts presumably have
a lot to go wrong and in London's heady conditions this must put a great
strain on the equipment, the more so as more disabled people use the
buses.

Yes, but why don't they have equipment robust enough to cope with this?

IMO, the manual folding ramps are better - but sadly it is not considered
safe for the driver to leave his cab to unfold one.

Fortunately this is likely to change with cashless buses.

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:58:10 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

Incidentally has anybody actually seen a wheelchair user on a bus yet?

Yes, more than once. A while ago I saw a group of yoofs who were on a
pub crawl of the Sutton area [why?], and one was in a wheelchair. I
noticed it as it was the first time I'd seen the ramp thingy appear
from under the door.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK