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Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm
London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. Currently only one in seven stations are step-free, which allows entry for wheelchair users. [snip] -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. Currently only one in seven stations are step-free, which allows entry for wheelchair users. By October? Unrealistic expectations?! -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. Currently only one in seven stations are step-free, which allows entry for wheelchair users. [snip] And where will the resources needed to go back and restore the lifts originally removed in lieu of escalators come from? Brad |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"TheOneKEA" wrote in message om... "John Rowland" wrote in message ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. Currently only one in seven stations are step-free, which allows entry for wheelchair users. [snip] And where will the resources needed to go back and restore the lifts originally removed in lieu of escalators come from? Brad Not only that be you would need to upgrade them to 'modern' gold plated standards. Additonaly as I understand it correctly the former lift shafts at some stations aren't actually street-platform level in any event. Of course if the tube had been properly funded as Metro's in other countries are then this modernisation work could have been carried out ages ago. But then this is Britian with a Tresuary that suffers from acountantitis.. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
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Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes In article , (Farlie A) wrote: Additonaly as I understand it correctly the former lift shafts at some stations aren't actually street-platform level in any event. Most if not all of the original lifts, I thought. Of course if the tube had been properly funded as Metro's in other countries are then this modernisation work could have been carried out ages ago. But then this is Britian with a Tresuary that suffers from acountantitis. How many other metro systems have full wheelchair access then? Tyne & Wear Metro and the entire Melbourne Metropolitan railway network are two. London will take a *very* Long time to achieve this, though. That said, it's good to see so many wheelchair accessible buses (even if the ambulant disabled, if I can use that term) tend to prefer something with more stanchions. Incidentally, I was with a wheelchair bound friend in London last week. The low floor buses were a *real* boon BUT two out of the three we used had faults which prevented us from using them. The first could have the centre doors open *or* lower the ramp but not have both at the same time. The third one (in Whitehall!), lowered the ramp then it became stuck on the kerb and everyone had to transfer to the (bendi) behind. When the problem was eventually solve, though, we had a very private journey to Marylebone in the company of the driver. All the drivers, incidentally were *very* much amenable but if breakdowns are this common (are they?) then it compromises the use of the system. By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector) were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well. Ideas anyone? -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. All jolly interesting but someone should check the article and look at the grounds for being able to sue. If the organisation has plans in place - and LUL does and has had a policy in place for years - then they cannot be successfully sued. While I accept such access is important the legislators did recognise that none of these improvements can be delivered overnight or at the cost of other vital expenditure - like replacing worn out track, trains and signals. The improvements to the bus network that have been funded by TfL provide good access to those who are mobility impaired and is an adequate alternative until such time as LUL is properly funded to allow for the huge works that are needed to rectify the problems inherent in a network as old as the Underground. And before anyone jumps down my throat these remarks are mine and not those of LUL. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
... In article , (Farlie A) wrote: Additonaly as I understand it correctly the former lift shafts at some stations aren't actually street-platform level in any event. Most if not all of the original lifts, I thought. In addition to this, some of the lift shafts were "cut" by the building of escalator shafts - either by the escalator shaft physically passing through the site of the lift shaft (for example at Charing Cross (Northern)), or by the escalator shaft coming down into the space formerly occupied by the lift landings (e.g. Tottenham Court Road (Central), Holborn (Picc)). Re-installing lifts in the original shafts at these locations would be impossible. A further problem is that many of the former lift shafts have been converted to ventilation shafts. Curing one problem might create another. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
Ian Jelf wrote:
By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector) were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well. Ideas anyone? "Eligible disabled" people qualify for a Freedom Pass if they live in London. These passes are paid for by the London boroughs and give the holders free travel on most public transport services in London. -- John Ray, London UK. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland"
wrote this:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. A lawyer's money making scheme. The Act requires modifications that are reasonable, which is right. What is wrong is paying lawyers to argue over what is reasonable. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In message , John Ray
writes Ian Jelf wrote: By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector) were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well. Ideas anyone? "Eligible disabled" people qualify for a Freedom Pass if they live in London. These passes are paid for by the London boroughs and give the holders free travel on most public transport services in London. Yes, I knew about Freedom passes but I could have *sworn* that I'd seen written down somewhere (I thought it was in the 2004 edition of "Fares & Tickets" but it isn't) a blanket "free travel" note for those in wheelchairs. Each of the drivers (and the inspector) to whom we spoke thought the same and yet I can find no reference on the TfL site. -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article , Paul Corfield
writes On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100, "John Rowland" wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. All jolly interesting but someone should check the article and look at the grounds for being able to sue. If the organisation has plans in place - and LUL does and has had a policy in place for years - then they cannot be successfully sued. While I accept such access is important the legislators did recognise that none of these improvements can be delivered overnight or at the cost of other vital expenditure - like replacing worn out track, trains and signals. The improvements to the bus network that have been funded by TfL provide good access to those who are mobility impaired and is an adequate alternative until such time as LUL is properly funded to allow for the huge works that are needed to rectify the problems inherent in a network as old as the Underground. And before anyone jumps down my throat these remarks are mine and not those of LUL. I really think people have lost the plot on this one. I'm all for full disabled access to everything including theatres, the tube, cinemas etc but the LU is over 100 years old. It was never designed for disabled passengers. OK, so all the work is done to get wheelchairs down to the platforms, how do they get across the gap on curved platforms to the carriage? LU is working to improve things but it is under funded, dogged by poor management, heavy legislation and is creaking at the seams from years of neglect. And the disabled lobby want it fixed by October? It would take that long to work out some potential access routes at the stations, let alone tender the work etc. -- Andrew Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this communication can not be guaranteed. Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not associations or companies I am involved with. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access. Wheelchair users and free travel - As far as I am aware ALL passengers must have a ticket or other ''authority to travel''. A person with limited mobility would automatically qualify for a Disabled designated Freedom Pass allowing travel on all TfL facilities at any time (no time restrictions). However, as there is no universal agreement between boroughs, counties or the state about discounted travel, a person from outside London wheelchair bound or even blind does not qualify for free or discounted travel on TfL services (unless they hold a Disabled railcard that gives travelcards Zone 1-6D for around £4.50). In addition there is no concession to helpers or carers and they must pay the full fare. But of course what happens in practice is often very different and ''authority to travel'' is obtained at the barrier at no cost - but not always and nor should staff be put under pressure to do so. "Ian Jelf" wrote in message ... In message , Colin Rosenstiel writes In article , (Farlie A) wrote: Additonaly as I understand it correctly the former lift shafts at some stations aren't actually street-platform level in any event. Most if not all of the original lifts, I thought. Of course if the tube had been properly funded as Metro's in other countries are then this modernisation work could have been carried out ages ago. But then this is Britian with a Tresuary that suffers from acountantitis. How many other metro systems have full wheelchair access then? Tyne & Wear Metro and the entire Melbourne Metropolitan railway network are two. London will take a *very* Long time to achieve this, though. That said, it's good to see so many wheelchair accessible buses (even if the ambulant disabled, if I can use that term) tend to prefer something with more stanchions. Incidentally, I was with a wheelchair bound friend in London last week. The low floor buses were a *real* boon BUT two out of the three we used had faults which prevented us from using them. The first could have the centre doors open *or* lower the ramp but not have both at the same time. The third one (in Whitehall!), lowered the ramp then it became stuck on the kerb and everyone had to transfer to the (bendi) behind. When the problem was eventually solve, though, we had a very private journey to Marylebone in the company of the driver. All the drivers, incidentally were *very* much amenable but if breakdowns are this common (are they?) then it compromises the use of the system. By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector) were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well. Ideas anyone? -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
David Hansen wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland" wrote this:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. A lawyer's money making scheme. The Act requires modifications that are reasonable, which is right. What is wrong is paying lawyers to argue over what is reasonable. I'm afraid I would strongly disagree. While in principle it should seem easy to determine what constitutes "reasonable" it isn't always clear cut. And it can have significant benefits for the disabled community. For example, the charity I work for took a case against GNER on behalf of a disabled client which resulted in them changing their disabled passenger policy. I rather doubt that would have happened if one of my fellow lawyers had not been involved. jb |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win,
(SJCWHUK) wrote: OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with disabled access. When was the system built? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"SJCWHUK" typed
OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with disabled access. Wheelchair users and free travel - As far as I am aware ALL passengers must have a ticket or other ''authority to travel''. The under 5s don't need a ticket... A person with limited mobility would automatically qualify for a Disabled designated Freedom Pass allowing travel on all TfL facilities at any time (no time restrictions). It's not *that* automatic. I'm sure wheelchair users would qualify, but it's necessary to apply completing the necessary forms. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article , Ian Jelf
writes By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector) were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well. Ideas anyone? The other day I boarded a bus and the leaflet rack behind the driver held booklets entitled "A staff guide to ticketing on London's buses" dated January 2004 (on the back it has the code TfL2586.11.03). Page 23: Disabled Persons' freedom pass [...] Allows free travel on all bus services within Greater London, and on a number of bus services beyond Greater London, operated as part of the London bus network; at all times. Page 26: *Any* passenger in a wheelchair can travel free, at any time, on wheelchair accessible buses. On dual-door vehicles, where the wheelchair ramp is fitted at the middle doors, passengers in wheelchairs *must* board/alight through the middle doors only. Only one wheelchair may be carried at a time. [Emphasis in original.] Page 26: Other concessionary travel arrangements [...] In certain cases the pass also allows a companion to travel at concessionary rate - this is also shown clearly on the pass. ==== Two notes on photographs. Firstly, some passes for blind people require a photocard with no photo, while others require a normal photo. Secondly, to quote page 20: Any female passenger wearing a Burqa or Yashmak can hold a valid Photocard, that shows the face similarly covered, to support a valid Bus Pass, Travelcard or LT Card. Under *no* circumstances should a female passenger be asked to uncover her face or be refused travel when holding a valid ticket supported by such a Photocard. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"SJCWHUK" wrote in message news:HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win... OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with disabled access. But is it a tube? The London Underground is described as a tube because the deep level trains run through a 12ft od pipe into which the train has been designed to fit using as much of the space as possible. The Met and the District run in shallow "cut and cover" (mostly) tunnels with the two roads side by side. I suspect the Stockholm and others bear more resemblance to the latter that to the tube railways proper. The primary concern with allowing wheelchairs onto the Underground, specifically the tube lines, is getting them out in the event of an emergency. The interconnecting doors between cars aren't wide enough nor is the door in the front of the train allowing emergency access to the track permitting emergency evacuation along the track to the next station. On the Met and District evacuation can be done by brining another train to a stop on the adjacent road and creating a bridge between the two for people to walk across using one door on each train. This is still unsafe for wheelchair users since there remains the possibility of falling between the trains onto the track. In that scenario the wheelchair user presents a real danger to other passengers as well as to themselves. Before anyone asks, I have had to use a wheelchair and I still have difficulty walking, I have also been LT traincrew so can see the problem from both sides. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"Brimstone" wrote in message
... "SJCWHUK" wrote in message news:HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win... OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with disabled access. But is it a tube? The London Underground is described as a tube because the deep level trains run through a 12ft od pipe into which the train has been designed to fit using as much of the space as possible. The Met and the District run in shallow "cut and cover" (mostly) tunnels with the two roads side by side. I suspect the Stockholm and others bear more resemblance to the latter that to the tube railways proper. Some or most of the Stockholm system was created by blasting tunnels through solid rock, and the running tunnels and platform tunnels have largely been left as bare rock. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win, (SJCWHUK) wrote: OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with disabled access. When was the system built? 1950 (i.e. long after most of London's tube system). -- Paul Terry |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
John Rowland wrote:
Some or most of the Stockholm system was created by blasting tunnels through solid rock, and the running tunnels and platform tunnels have largely been left as bare rock. Whilst that is of interest it doesn't answer the question of how the tracks are arranged and how wheelchair users are dealt with in an emergency. Is there anyone who knows? |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
This subject line is getting a little heated! :-))
LUL are required by law to give access to Disabled passengers under this new Act. I assume the Act gave a time period for this to be done. LUL probably received no extra funding to pay for this large scale work. Therefore it hasn't been done. Do we really expect it would be any other way? :-)) Shall we now go onto slam door trains? Steve "Nick Cooper" wrote in message ... On 8 Apr 2004 18:25:35 -0700, (Jeremy Barker) wrote: David Hansen wrote in message . .. On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland" wrote this:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. A lawyer's money making scheme. The Act requires modifications that are reasonable, which is right. What is wrong is paying lawyers to argue over what is reasonable. I'm afraid I would strongly disagree. While in principle it should seem easy to determine what constitutes "reasonable" it isn't always clear cut. And it can have significant benefits for the disabled community. For example, the charity I work for took a case against GNER on behalf of a disabled client which resulted in them changing their disabled passenger policy. I rather doubt that would have happened if one of my fellow lawyers had not been involved. LOL! Yeah, well a lawyer would say that, wouldn't they? The harsh reality is that such improvements cost money, which, of course, LUL will have considerably less of if they have to contest frivolous legal actions brought by greedy and/or trouble-causing whingers. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
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Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
... how do they get across the gap on curved platforms to the carriage? Gap fillers, like those at South Ferry on the New York subway? For those that haven't seem them, these consist of an area of platform comprised of many parallel steel bars, running back from the edge of the platform edge for a metre or so, and wide enough to cover the width of the open doors when the train stops. The bars are in two sets, alternate ones being fixed and movable, when the train arrives the movable set moves forward to fill the gap between the train and the platform edge. There are chains at the sides of them at various hights, to prevent passengers falling off the side. Probably be banned of safety grounds here. The bars might need to be at a closer pitch than those in New York, to prevent a wheel from falling down the gap between them when extended. The New York ones are about the size of the cleats on the steps on the old 'wooden' escalators. And the disabled lobby want it fixed by October? It would take that long to work out some potential access routes at the stations, let alone tender the work etc. Not to mention where you would find the engineers qualified to design, build, install, test and certify all of those lifts. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article , Nick Cooper nick.cooper-
writes LOL! Yeah, well a lawyer would say that, wouldn't they? The harsh reality is that such improvements cost money, which, of course, LUL will have considerably less of if they have to contest frivolous legal actions brought by greedy and/or trouble-causing whingers. But if an action is genuinely frivolous or vexatious, LUL could expect to be awarded costs, surely? And if not, LUL could do their cause a lot of good if they worked proactively with recognised groups representing the disabled. -- Julian Hayward 'Booles' on FIBS +44-1480-210097 http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible. - T. E. Lawrence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
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Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:42:12 GMT, Steve wrote:
Does anybody why wheelchair users are allowed to travel for free? I imagine it's rather hard or time-consuming for the driver to get out, walk to the wheelchair space in the middle of the bus, ask for a ticket, and return to the driving seat. Particularly if the bus is busy with standing customers between the driver and the middle doors. It's probably easier just to take them. -- Flash Wilson http://www.gorge.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- I am a hostage to my .inbox. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
Colin Rosenstiel writes:
How many other metro systems have full wheelchair access then? Or, more to the point, how many built before, say, 1980? In Toronto, where most of the system opened between 1954 and 1978, conversion of subway stations for wheelchair access began in the mid-1990s. Of 63 stations (if I count correctly) on the subway and Scarborough RT (DLR-like) line then existing, about 1/4 * have been converted. Mostly this means adding elevators (lifts), some- times several in a station, but changes to the fare barriers are also required, and new passages to reach the elevators. The con- struction work is typically performed by small teams owing to the confined spaces, and it takes a couple of years to convert a station. The elevators normally used are largish ones that would hold about 12 people if there are no wheelchairs in them, and are open to the general public. A few are smaller. The vertical travel is fairly short in almost all cases; Toronto has only a few deep stations. All stations opened since this process began have been wheelchair- accessible from the outset. On older trains, wheelchair users go in the standing room; on newer ones (now about 2/3 of the fleet) there are places where seats can be folded up to make a wheelchair space, with fixtures to anchor the wheelchair into place. *I can think of 13 for sure, and two more that I would expect to have been converted but I don't normally get to them; and there may be a small number of other ones that I didn't think of. I also know of 3 stations where conversion is in progress right now. -- Mark Brader, Toronto "You are not the customer, you are the product." My text in this article is in the public domain. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
Has proper consideration been given to what would happen in a "panic" evacuation from below ground if wheelchairs were present? Perhaps someone has looked at this and concluded that, despite the Act, it would be better to delay the adaptation of LUL stations for wheelchairs. Would it not be more sensible to have a system of dial-up buses specially adapted for wheelchair users thus allowing them the mobility they desire without endangering the rest of us below ground? MJW |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win, SJCWHUK
writes OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with disabled access. Stockholm T-Bana is a modern systems that is not heavily used. The stations are spacious, the platforms are straight. The stations are not far below ground and usually a single lift connects the platform to the surface. What we are faced with is an old, crumbling, cramped system that has been neglected for decades. -- Andrew Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this communication can not be guaranteed. Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not associations or companies I am involved with. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article , Stephen Furley
writes Gap fillers, like those at South Ferry on the New York subway? For those that haven't seem them, these consist of an area of platform comprised of many parallel steel bars, running back from the edge of the platform edge for a metre or so, and wide enough to cover the width of the open doors when the train stops. The bars are in two sets, alternate ones being fixed and movable, when the train arrives the movable set moves forward to fill the gap between the train and the platform edge. There are chains at the sides of them at various hights, to prevent passengers falling off the side. Probably be banned of safety grounds here. The bars might need to be at a closer pitch than those in New York, to prevent a wheel from falling down the gap between them when extended. The New York ones are about the size of the cleats on the steps on the old 'wooden' escalators. I've used the NYC subway and the 'gap fillers' aren't wheelchair compatible. They simply stop someone falling into a void - they do not provide a smooth, slat bridge between the platform adn the carriage. -- Andrew Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this communication can not be guaranteed. Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not associations or companies I am involved with. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In message , M.Whitson
writes Has proper consideration been given to what would happen in a "panic" evacuation from below ground if wheelchairs were present? Perhaps someone has looked at this and concluded that, despite the Act, it would be better to delay the adaptation of LUL stations for wheelchairs. Has anyone considered what would happen in a "panic" evacuation from below ground if people who were drunk, blind, deaf, mentally unstable, seriously overweight, elderly and infirm or otherwise incapacitated were present? I venture to suggest that the wheelchair-bound would be only one of a wide range of members of the public with potentially extreme problems in such difficulties. -- Paul Terry |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
Steve wrote the following in:
Does anybody why wheelchair users are allowed to travel for free? Actually, before you do, let me make one thing clear - I am all for making travel in London more accessible for wheelchair-bound and disabled people. I think we all agree on this point - why should they be discriminated against? But I have a problem with the fact that they are allowed to travel free? Is this not rather discriminatory in itself? The idea of a lot of accomodations for disabled people is that they put the disabled person in question on a 'level playing field'. For example a person who has difficulty writing by hand would be allowed to use a computer to type in an exam. This is because it makes their ability to write in the exam equal with that of a person who has no difficulty writing by hand. For wheelchair users, getting around is an inherently more expensive and difficult business requiring specialist equipment like wheelchairs or, for example, adaptations to cars (although I don't really know a great deal about the subject). By making travel on public transport free that helps make them equal with people who do not have to bear the extra costs associated with travel for wheelchair users. -- message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law. "Dust Hill guy likes the Gordon clock" "You MUST NOT drive dangerously" - the Highway Code There are 20,000,000 women wearing kinky boots. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message ... In article , Stephen Furley I've used the NYC subway and the 'gap fillers' aren't wheelchair compatible. They simply stop someone falling into a void - they do not provide a smooth, slat bridge between the platform adn the carriage. This may be true of the existing ones, but I don't think it would be too difficult to design ones which were usable by passengers in wheelchairs. On systems such at the DLR and Croydon Tramlink the position of the vehicle relative the the platform edge is controlled very closely, both horizontally and vertically, and wheelchairs can easily get on and off. If track and or platform hights on other systems were adjusted to elininate the step, then a gap filler could reduce the gap which is inevitable at curved platforms to one of a centimetre or two, which a wheelchair is capable of crossing. With a bit of thought it would probably be possible to design a gap filler that could tilt as it extended to form a ramp if the platform was not quite level with the train floor. Such a system may not be ideal, but I believe it could enable passengers in wheelchairs to get on and off trains at somewhere like Bank Central line, where it is difficult to see how it could be done otherwise, other than by total reconstruction of the station, on a new site. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article , Stephen
Furley writes Hi Steve This may be true of the existing ones, but I don't think it would be too difficult to design ones which were usable by passengers in wheelchairs. On systems such at the DLR and Croydon Tramlink the position of the vehicle relative the the platform edge is controlled very closely, both horizontally and vertically, and wheelchairs can easily get on and off. I fail to see how a train can adjust its' position horizontally relative to the platform edge. It's on rails. To do that you would need a very clever bit of mechanics to do the movement, then go back to the standard position before the train could move off. Far easier to do what has been done on the JLE and get the platforms etc right first time. I don't doubt that the technology is available - but would it work in reality. If track and or platform hights on other systems were adjusted to elininate the step, then a gap filler could reduce the gap which is inevitable at curved platforms to one of a centimetre or two, which a wheelchair is capable of crossing. With a bit of thought it would probably be possible to design a gap filler that could tilt as it extended to form a ramp if the platform was not quite level with the train floor. Such a system may not be ideal, but I believe it could enable passengers in wheelchairs to get on and off trains at somewhere like Bank Central line, where it is difficult to see how it could be done otherwise, other than by total reconstruction of the station, on a new site. I agree with what you are saying but it would mean clever engineering and the train stopping in exactly the right place every time for the gap fillers to work properly. Far easier to get it right at the design stage rather than retro fit. Unfortunately for LU, that's 100 years late...... -- Andrew Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this communication can not be guaranteed. Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not associations or companies I am involved with. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message ... In article , Stephen Far easier to do what has been done on the JLE and get the platforms etc right first time. That was what I meant, that track can be positioned accurately relative to the platform edge, and prevented from moving. Given a straight platform this can bring the vehicle entrance very close to the platform edge, and a wheelchair can easily board. At existing stations which have tightly curved platforms it is not possible to avoid a gap which is too wide for a wheelchair to cross, but if the track is accurately positioned, so that the width of the gap is known, and constant, then I think that a device working on a similar principle to the New York gap filler could be designed to allow a wheelchair to board, and at a cost which would be affordable, which total reconstruction of the station, and the approach tracks leading to it, to eliminate the curved platforms would not be. If it is not possible to arrange for the vehicle floor to be exactly level with the platform surface then, as long as the difference is fairly small, known, and constant, then I think that a tilting gap filler could be designed, which would form a ramp as it extended. In an ideal world we would have anunderground system where all platforms were suitable for wheelchair access to trains, but in reality, the cost of the reconstruction which would be needed at some stations would be so high that it could never happen. In some circumstances this may be an affordable alternative. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
In article , Stephen
Furley writes In an ideal world we would have anunderground system where all platforms were suitable for wheelchair access to trains, but in reality, the cost of the reconstruction which would be needed at some stations would be so high that it could never happen. In some circumstances this may be an affordable alternative. I agree with that. -- Andrew Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this communication can not be guaranteed. Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not associations or companies I am involved with. |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled people if it does not improve access for them by October. By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access to transport will come into force. Currently only one in seven stations are step-free, which allows entry for wheelchair users. [snip] And at quite what height should the platforms be at Ealing Common and Rayner's Lane to Uxbridge to be step free? |
Disabled 'to sue for Tube access'
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:55:40 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote: In message , M.Whitson writes Has proper consideration been given to what would happen in a "panic" evacuation from below ground if wheelchairs were present? Perhaps someone has looked at this and concluded that, despite the Act, it would be better to delay the adaptation of LUL stations for wheelchairs. Has anyone considered what would happen in a "panic" evacuation from below ground if people who were drunk, blind, deaf, mentally unstable, seriously overweight, elderly and infirm or otherwise incapacitated were present? I venture to suggest that the wheelchair-bound would be only one of a wide range of members of the public with potentially extreme problems in such difficulties. Don't think that speculation is needed here, sadly there are facts to base planning/understanding on - viz KX Keith J Chesworth www.unseenlondon.co.uk www.blackpooltram.co.uk www.happysnapper.com www.boilerbill.com - main site www.amerseyferry.co.uk |
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