On 12/02/2019 09:07, Robin9 wrote:
I think it's certain that prices will go up. The Uber rep is obviously
concerned primarily about Uber drivers working in "the middle"
but there is also the issue of suburban PHV drivers who make only
one trip per day into central London.

If, for example, a driver takes an outer suburban customer to
Barts Hospital, that customer will be the only one that day
necessitating the driver to pay the surcharge. Presumably the
entire charge will be added to that passenger's fare. The customer
will not be pleased with Mr. Khan!

As far as Uber goes, that can be done automatically by the app,
hopefully with an explanation. Or Uber can arrange things so the driver
has a full day in the centre once he's cleared the Bart's job.

What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on
the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6 will cost a fortune to
take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or
coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has
has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:22:20 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on
the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6

Or Euro 4 for petrol.

will cost a fortune to
take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or
coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has
has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply.

That's not annoying, that's fantastic news for the people that breath
the air in London[1]. I look forward to the improvement in air quality for
millions and the resultant improvement in health and healthcare savings.

[1] And the bits of not London that the vehicles also drive in.

On 12/02/2019 14:00, David Walters wrote:


That's not annoying, that's fantastic news for the people that breath
the air in London[1]. I look forward to the improvement in air quality for
millions and the resultant improvement in health and healthcare savings.

You won't notice any difference, and nor will the health services. Most
commercial vehicles going into the London ULEZ have been at the
appropriate Euro level for a long time now, and nobody seems to be
celebrating yet.

What people will notice is that it will cost more to deliver goods and
people to London, so Londoners will pay more for their groceries, and
there will be fewer tourists, leading to problems for the many
businesses that depend on them.



--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:18:46 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
Most
commercial vehicles going into the London ULEZ have been at the
appropriate Euro level for a long time now, and nobody seems to be
celebrating yet.

What people will notice is that it will cost more to deliver goods and
people to London, so Londoners will pay more for their groceries, and
there will be fewer tourists, leading to problems for the many
businesses that depend on them.

If most commercial vehicles don't need changing then delivery costs will
mostly stay the same and prices will mostly not increase (or if they do
it will not be a significant increase).

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:00:30 +0000
David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:22:20 +0000, John Williamson
wrote:
What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on
the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6

Or Euro 4 for petrol.

will cost a fortune to
take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or
coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has
has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply.

That's not annoying, that's fantastic news for the people that breath
the air in London[1]. I look forward to the improvement in air quality for
millions and the resultant improvement in health and healthcare savings.

Meanwhile all the extra CO2 from the manufacture of the replacement vehicles
chain will simple hasten climate change that little bit faster. I'll take
local pollution over global pollution any day. And a lot of the people whining
about air quality are the same people who install wood burning stoves in their
farrow and ball decorated living rooms.

On 12/02/2019 17:29, wrote:

Meanwhile all the extra CO2 from the manufacture of the replacement vehicles
chain will simple hasten climate change that little bit faster. I'll take
local pollution over global pollution any day. And a lot of the people whining
about air quality are the same people who install wood burning stoves in their
farrow and ball decorated living rooms.


Ah, well, the new Clean Air Act will sort those out. The first step will
be to ban the installation of new wood stoves that don't comply with the
emissions rules, as well as banning the retail sale of non-approved
solid fuels and unseasoned wood in many boroughs of London under powers
the Act grants to local authorities.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:22:20 +0000
John Williamson wrote:
On 12/02/2019 09:07, Robin9 wrote:
I think it's certain that prices will go up. The Uber rep is obviously
concerned primarily about Uber drivers working in "the middle"
but there is also the issue of suburban PHV drivers who make only
one trip per day into central London.

If, for example, a driver takes an outer suburban customer to
Barts Hospital, that customer will be the only one that day
necessitating the driver to pay the surcharge. Presumably the
entire charge will be added to that passenger's fare. The customer
will not be pleased with Mr. Khan!

As far as Uber goes, that can be done automatically by the app,
hopefully with an explanation. Or Uber can arrange things so the driver
has a full day in the centre once he's cleared the Bart's job.

What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on
the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6 will cost a fortune to
take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or
coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has
has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply.

I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together and
refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see what the
little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london.

On 12/02/2019 17:27, wrote:

I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together and
refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see what the
little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london.

A nice idea, but there are very few transport companies in a position to
influence the vote in central London. The only way to prevent what Khan
and BoJo before him wanted to do would be to get local voters to
threaten to vote them out.

Refusing to deliver stuff would just annoy the voters, and make them
more likely to support Khan, if anything.

I drive a coach for a living, and I know that the industry has been
lobbying strongly, and has been totally ignored. I assume the haulage
industry has been doing the same.

On the other hand, a lot of "important" people live and vote in Central
London, and they tend not to care about the problems and costs of
delivering what they want, but if they can convince themselves that
supporting even the tiny reduction in pollution that will result is
good, then that's what they will vote for.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:27, wrote:

I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together
and refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see
what the little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london.
I drive a coach for a living, and I know that the industry has been
lobbying strongly, and has been totally ignored. I assume the haulage
industry has been doing the same.

The purpose of the plan is to reduce the polluting vehicles in central
London, which it's acknowledged cause too high levels of pollution.
Presumably, lorries and coaches are a big contributor?

So what are the industry proposals that would be a better way to achieve
pollution reductions? What is the industry lobbying *for*, as opposed to
lobbying *against*? (lobbying against taxes is no surprise)

If you dispute that lorries and coaches are major contributors, do you have
evidence for that? If you dispute that pollution is too high, evidence for
that?

Theo

We all know how to reduce air pollution in London caused
by road vehicles. We've been through this several times
before in other threads. Vehicles have not suddenly become
more polluting in the past twenty years. They have become
cleaner. The huge increase in air pollution in London is because
the roads have been changed. (TfL calls them "improvements"
I call it sabotage) Vehicle journeys take far longer, their engines
are running longer; hence an increase in vehicle emissions.

There is also the issue of 20mph zones. Vehicle emit more
pollutants at 20mph than at 30 mph.