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Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
The Uber representative of the GMB Union has sent out
a message, calling on GMB members to protest against the change in minicab (PHV) drivers' status regarding the congestion charge: You will know that Transport for London is imposing the Congestion Charge on you and all licenced private hire drivers from the 8 April 2019. This charge imposes a heavy burden on drivers, in addition to other costs we face such as the cost or rental of vehicle; high insurance; heavy maintenance and running costs; etc. The GMB have protested against these charges, see https://bit.ly/2UjsZ2t, and have made representations to TfL and the Mayor. They have not responded. To show our opposition to TfL’s proposals we are joining the Monday demonstrations and are asking you to show your disapproval of the Mayor’s unjust actions. The details a - Monday 11th February, from 4 to 6 pm, at London Bridge We need to show our solidarity and unity. Banners and placards will be available. Contact Dennis on for further details. Pass this information onto other private hire drivers; bring your friends and family. If this action goes through it will kill the private hire profession in London. Kind regards Dennis Bartholomew UBER Representative Professional Drivers G56 -------------------------------------- When Ken Livingstone first planned the fraudulently named congestion charge, minicab drivers were going to pay. He soon realised that the charge would be passed on to customers and he decided to exempt minicab drivers. Our new Mayor, strapped for cash partly through his own doing, has decided minicab drivers will now have to pay. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that this call to arms comes not from the GMB itself but from a Uber representative. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On 10/02/2019 15:24, Robin9 wrote:
Pass this information onto other private hire drivers; bring your friends and family. If this action goes through it will kill the private hire profession in London. The proposal will not "kill the private hire profession in London", all that will happen is that the prices will go up, and the cynic in me says they will go up by more than the congestion charge. It will add a maximum of £21.50 per day to the running costs of the vehicle, less if it is hybrid or petrol engined. Wait until Sadiq Khan's plan to ban all diesel engines comes in.... -- Tciao for Now! John. |
I think it's certain that prices will go up. The Uber rep is obviously
concerned primarily about Uber drivers working in "the middle" but there is also the issue of suburban PHV drivers who make only one trip per day into central London. If, for example, a driver takes an outer suburban customer to Barts Hospital, that customer will be the only one that day necessitating the driver to pay the surcharge. Presumably the entire charge will be added to that passenger's fare. The customer will not be pleased with Mr. Khan! |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On 12/02/2019 09:07, Robin9 wrote:
I think it's certain that prices will go up. The Uber rep is obviously concerned primarily about Uber drivers working in "the middle" but there is also the issue of suburban PHV drivers who make only one trip per day into central London. If, for example, a driver takes an outer suburban customer to Barts Hospital, that customer will be the only one that day necessitating the driver to pay the surcharge. Presumably the entire charge will be added to that passenger's fare. The customer will not be pleased with Mr. Khan! As far as Uber goes, that can be done automatically by the app, hopefully with an explanation. Or Uber can arrange things so the driver has a full day in the centre once he's cleared the Bart's job. What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6 will cost a fortune to take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:22:20 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6 Or Euro 4 for petrol. will cost a fortune to take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply. That's not annoying, that's fantastic news for the people that breath the air in London[1]. I look forward to the improvement in air quality for millions and the resultant improvement in health and healthcare savings. [1] And the bits of not London that the vehicles also drive in. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On 12/02/2019 14:00, David Walters wrote:
That's not annoying, that's fantastic news for the people that breath the air in London[1]. I look forward to the improvement in air quality for millions and the resultant improvement in health and healthcare savings. You won't notice any difference, and nor will the health services. Most commercial vehicles going into the London ULEZ have been at the appropriate Euro level for a long time now, and nobody seems to be celebrating yet. What people will notice is that it will cost more to deliver goods and people to London, so Londoners will pay more for their groceries, and there will be fewer tourists, leading to problems for the many businesses that depend on them. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:18:46 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
Most commercial vehicles going into the London ULEZ have been at the appropriate Euro level for a long time now, and nobody seems to be celebrating yet. What people will notice is that it will cost more to deliver goods and people to London, so Londoners will pay more for their groceries, and there will be fewer tourists, leading to problems for the many businesses that depend on them. If most commercial vehicles don't need changing then delivery costs will mostly stay the same and prices will mostly not increase (or if they do it will not be a significant increase). |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:22:20 +0000
John Williamson wrote: On 12/02/2019 09:07, Robin9 wrote: I think it's certain that prices will go up. The Uber rep is obviously concerned primarily about Uber drivers working in "the middle" but there is also the issue of suburban PHV drivers who make only one trip per day into central London. If, for example, a driver takes an outer suburban customer to Barts Hospital, that customer will be the only one that day necessitating the driver to pay the surcharge. Presumably the entire charge will be added to that passenger's fare. The customer will not be pleased with Mr. Khan! As far as Uber goes, that can be done automatically by the app, hopefully with an explanation. Or Uber can arrange things so the driver has a full day in the centre once he's cleared the Bart's job. What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6 will cost a fortune to take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply. I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together and refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see what the little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:00:30 +0000
David Walters wrote: On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:22:20 +0000, John Williamson wrote: What's really going to **** them off is the new ULEZ that kicks in on the date given, so anything earlier than Euro 6 Or Euro 4 for petrol. will cost a fortune to take in. It's also annoying transport companies, as using any lorry or coach older than Euro 6 will cost £200 a day. The company I work for has has to spend over two million quid to update our fleet to comply. That's not annoying, that's fantastic news for the people that breath the air in London[1]. I look forward to the improvement in air quality for millions and the resultant improvement in health and healthcare savings. Meanwhile all the extra CO2 from the manufacture of the replacement vehicles chain will simple hasten climate change that little bit faster. I'll take local pollution over global pollution any day. And a lot of the people whining about air quality are the same people who install wood burning stoves in their farrow and ball decorated living rooms. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
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Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
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Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
John Williamson wrote:
On 12/02/2019 17:27, wrote: I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together and refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see what the little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london. I drive a coach for a living, and I know that the industry has been lobbying strongly, and has been totally ignored. I assume the haulage industry has been doing the same. The purpose of the plan is to reduce the polluting vehicles in central London, which it's acknowledged cause too high levels of pollution. Presumably, lorries and coaches are a big contributor? So what are the industry proposals that would be a better way to achieve pollution reductions? What is the industry lobbying *for*, as opposed to lobbying *against*? (lobbying against taxes is no surprise) If you dispute that lorries and coaches are major contributors, do you have evidence for that? If you dispute that pollution is too high, evidence for that? Theo |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
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We all know how to reduce air pollution in London caused
by road vehicles. We've been through this several times before in other threads. Vehicles have not suddenly become more polluting in the past twenty years. They have become cleaner. The huge increase in air pollution in London is because the roads have been changed. (TfL calls them "improvements" I call it sabotage) Vehicle journeys take far longer, their engines are running longer; hence an increase in vehicle emissions. There is also the issue of 20mph zones. Vehicle emit more pollutants at 20mph than at 30 mph. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On 12 Feb 2019 20:34:46 +0000 (GMT)
Theo wrote: John Williamson wrote: On 12/02/2019 17:27, wrote: I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together and refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see what the little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london. I drive a coach for a living, and I know that the industry has been lobbying strongly, and has been totally ignored. I assume the haulage industry has been doing the same. The purpose of the plan is to reduce the polluting vehicles in central London, which it's acknowledged cause too high levels of pollution. Presumably, lorries and coaches are a big contributor? So what are the industry proposals that would be a better way to achieve pollution reductions? What is the industry lobbying *for*, as opposed to lobbying *against*? (lobbying against taxes is no surprise) If you dispute that lorries and coaches are major contributors, do you have evidence for that? If you dispute that pollution is too high, evidence for that? The bus and haulage industry don't build the vehicles. Stuff has to be delivered somehow unless you want to go back to horse drawn carts and until battery technology allows viable electric goods vehicles and buses** then its going be diesel. ** Yes, I know about the battery buses in southwark with their not great range even on the flat ground on which they operate. Put them on a hampstead route and see how long the battery charge lasts. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
In message , at 07:25:14 on Thu, 14 Feb
2019, Someone Somewhere remarked: On 13/02/2019 16:31, wrote: On 12 Feb 2019 20:34:46 +0000 (GMT) Theo wrote: John Williamson wrote: On 12/02/2019 17:27, wrote: I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together and refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see what the little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london. I drive a coach for a living, and I know that the industry has been lobbying strongly, and has been totally ignored. I assume the haulage industry has been doing the same. The purpose of the plan is to reduce the polluting vehicles in central London, which it's acknowledged cause too high levels of pollution. Presumably, lorries and coaches are a big contributor? So what are the industry proposals that would be a better way to achieve pollution reductions? What is the industry lobbying *for*, as opposed to lobbying *against*? (lobbying against taxes is no surprise) If you dispute that lorries and coaches are major contributors, do you have evidence for that? If you dispute that pollution is too high, evidence for that? The bus and haulage industry don't build the vehicles. Stuff has to be delivered somehow unless you want to go back to horse drawn carts and until battery technology allows viable electric goods vehicles and buses** then its going be diesel. What about the efficiency of the deliveries? How many vans etc are driving around half empty? Maybe some idea of huge depots on the M25 where things are delivered to and then have some system of allocating particular areas to particular delivery companies so they send in full vehicles that do as little driving as possible? Yes - it doesn't work for big goods and/or things that come on lorries (although it does work for things that come on pallets) but it would be a start. A lot of the things being delivered in central London will be in (wheeled) cages. It's a bit unusual to see a fork-lift truck unloading palettes in WC1. The trick with cages is to load them into the van in the correct order, so the ones you want first are by the doors at the back. Distribution depots on/outside the M25 already do a pretty good job sorting and consolidating deliveries. They don't send one truck of baked beans around several destinations, followed by a truck of Cornflakes to make numerous drop-offs. They'll load the truck with a mixture of Baked Beans, Cornflakes etc and try to have the minimum number of drop-offs. The cost of operating the trucks is mainly time and mileage (not a relatively small access fee) and therefore they have that sort of thing pretty well optimised already. -- Roland Perry |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
Roland Perry wrote:
The cost of operating the trucks is mainly time and mileage (not a relatively small access fee) and therefore they have that sort of thing pretty well optimised already. Pollution is an externality. There's not a lot of difference in road tax between a Euro 1-5 truck and a Euro 6 truck. As a haulier, I can buy a 15 year old truck for a lot less than a new one, and the operating costs are broadly the same (maybe the new one is more fuel efficient, but that's probably less of a concern in London where distances aren't so large). If a haulier wants to 'do the right thing' by running newer trucks, the risk is they're undercut by a competitor who doesn't. By including the costs of pollution in the bottom line, it now makes an economic incentive to invest in newer vehicles. And the playing field is level because everyone is under the same pressure. It might end up costing the consumer slightly more, which comes down to the question: do you want to live in a polluted city or don't you? (also not to forget the costs of pollution that taxpayers pay, eg in extra healthcare, and the way that the effects of pollution may not be evenly distributed across the population) Theo |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On 14 Feb 2019 12:22:13 +0000 (GMT)
Theo wrote: Roland Perry wrote: The cost of operating the trucks is mainly time and mileage (not a relatively small access fee) and therefore they have that sort of thing pretty well optimised already. Pollution is an externality. There's not a lot of difference in road tax between a Euro 1-5 truck and a Euro 6 truck. As a haulier, I can buy a 15 year old truck for a lot less than a new one, and the operating costs are broadly the same (maybe the new one is more fuel efficient, but that's probably less of a concern in London where distances aren't so large). I realise trucks are built to last a lot longer than cars, but even so, surely a 15 year old truck is going to be pretty heavy on maintenance costs? |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
In message , at 12:22:13 on Thu,
14 Feb 2019, Theo remarked: Roland Perry wrote: The cost of operating the trucks is mainly time and mileage (not a relatively small access fee) and therefore they have that sort of thing pretty well optimised already. Pollution is an externality. There's not a lot of difference in road tax between a Euro 1-5 truck and a Euro 6 truck. As a haulier, I'm obviously a bit confused. Aren't you a computer scientist. I can buy a 15 year old truck for a lot less than a new one, and the operating costs are broadly the same (maybe the new one is more fuel efficient, but that's probably less of a concern in London where distances aren't so large). If a haulier wants to 'do the right thing' by running newer trucks, the risk is they're undercut by a competitor who doesn't. By including the costs of pollution in the bottom line, it now makes an economic incentive to invest in newer vehicles. And the playing field is level because everyone is under the same pressure. But my proposition is that a pollution charge isn't in fact high enough for that to kick in. It might end up costing the consumer slightly more, which comes down to the question: do you want to live in a polluted city or don't you? (also not to forget the costs of pollution that taxpayers pay, eg in extra healthcare, and the way that the effects of pollution may not be evenly distributed across the population) Theo -- Roland Perry |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
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Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:17:40 +0000
David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 12:56:26PM +0000, wrote: I realise trucks are built to last a lot longer than cars, but even so, surely a 15 year old truck is going to be pretty heavy on maintenance costs? A car that is actually looked after doesn't have significantly higher maintenance costs in year 15 than in year 5. I ASSume that the same applies to larger vehicles. Whether the cost of that maintenance from the beginning of its life is worthwhile is a different kettle of fish. For all I know it might be cheaper to just run a lorry into the ground every few years and buy new. Some trucks go through quite a beating, especially tipper trucks. Even with good maintenance you're going to get some sort of major failure at some point just because of wear and tear on the materials they're made from. |
Uber Representative Calls For A United Protest
On 14/02/2019 07:48, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:25:14 on Thu, 14 Feb 2019, Someone Somewhere remarked: On 13/02/2019 16:31, wrote: On 12 Feb 2019 20:34:46 +0000 (GMT) Theo wrote: John Williamson wrote: On 12/02/2019 17:27, wrote: I have wondered if all the transport companies should have got together and refused to make deliveries if they have to pay the charge and see what the little squirt does when the shelves empty in central london. I drive a coach for a living, and I know that the industry has been lobbying strongly, and has been totally ignored. I assume the haulage industry has been doing the same. The purpose of the plan is to reduce the polluting vehicles in central London, which it's acknowledged cause too high levels of pollution. Presumably, lorries and coaches are a big contributor? So what are the industry proposals that would be a better way to achieve pollution reductions?Â* What is the industry lobbying *for*, as opposed to lobbying *against*? (lobbying against taxes is no surprise) If you dispute that lorries and coaches are major contributors, do you have evidence for that?Â* If you dispute that pollution is too high, evidence for that? Â*The bus and haulage industry don't build the vehicles. Stuff has to be delivered somehow unless you want to go back to horse drawn carts and until battery technology allows viable electric goods vehicles and buses** then its going be diesel. What about the efficiency of the deliveries?Â* How many vans etc are driving around half empty? Maybe some idea of huge depots on the M25 where things are delivered to and then have some system of allocating particular areas to particular delivery companies so they send in full vehicles that do as little driving as possible? Yes - it doesn't work for big goods and/or things that come on lorries (although it does work for things that come on pallets) but it would be a start. A lot of the things being delivered in central London will be in (wheeled) cages. It's a bit unusual to see a fork-lift truck unloading palettes in WC1. The trick with cages is to load them into the van in the correct order, so the ones you want first are by the doors at the back. Distribution depots on/outside the M25 already do a pretty good job sorting and consolidating deliveries. They don't send one truck of baked beans around several destinations, followed by a truck of Cornflakes to make numerous drop-offs. They'll load the truck with a mixture of Baked Beans, Cornflakes etc and try to have the minimum number of drop-offs. Nor did I say they did - I was excluding things that came on lorries as I fully admit they are already better optimised - I'm talking about the myriad of white vans. What you're describing is the supermarket model which is as you say is pretty well optimised, but that only forms a portion of the deliveries in question. If I order someething online can come from a variety of couriers, each with their own vans and routes - if those routes could be made a quarter as long by consolidation on the last mile then surely that can improve things? |
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