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Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:07:00 on Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Jeremy Double remarked: There's probably around a thousand trains without toilets in and around London. I know but it's becoming obvious that this is unsatisfactory. I’m not sure where you’d put toilets on tube stock without obstructing the emergency exit to the next carriage; as you can’t walk through the train, would you want a toilet in each carriage? The point is made in the RAIB report that in the event of a train being unable to move, underground trains behind it are held at stations, so the problem that arose at Lewisham wouldn’t arise. This seems a very reasonable approach on a metro-style railway where the trains are not provided with toilets. That still leaves the train which is 'broken down' in the tunnel, and I don't believe the minimum block length on the Underground is fully from one station to the next, so there could be a train in the tunnel behind a broken down one. Actually it's worse than that, because if a train manages to limp to a station, or breaks down at a station, there's almost inevitably a least one train at a stand in the tunnel behind it. Yes, that's probably true on the busier lines with trains every two minutes. I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to the stalled train ahead. Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station. If the platform is already occupied, the reversing train will either couple up to it, or the other train will also reverse a short distance, so that one passenger door of the first train can get to the platform. Obviously, this only happens once they have given up on moving the stalled train any time soon. |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On Tue 26/03/2019 10:19, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:07:00 on Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Jeremy Double remarked: There's probably around a thousand trains without toilets in and around London. I know but it's becoming obvious that this is unsatisfactory. I’m not sure where you’d put toilets on tube stock without obstructing the emergency exit to the next carriage; as you can’t walk through the train, would you want a toilet in each carriage? The point is made in the RAIB report that in the event of a train being unable to move, underground trains behind it are held at stations, so the problem that arose at Lewisham wouldn’t arise. This seems a very reasonable approach on a metro-style railway where the trains are not provided with toilets. There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 10:19:13 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:07:00 on Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Jeremy Double remarked: There's probably around a thousand trains without toilets in and around London. I know but it's becoming obvious that this is unsatisfactory. I’m not sure where you’d put toilets on tube stock without obstructing the emergency exit to the next carriage; as you can’t walk through the train, would you want a toilet in each carriage? The point is made in the RAIB report that in the event of a train being unable to move, underground trains behind it are held at stations, so the problem that arose at Lewisham wouldn’t arise. This seems a very reasonable approach on a metro-style railway where the trains are not provided with toilets. That still leaves the train which is 'broken down' in the tunnel, and I don't believe the minimum block length on the Underground is fully from one station to the next, so there could be a train in the tunnel behind a broken down one. Actually it's worse than that, because if a train manages to limp to a station, or breaks down at a station, there's almost inevitably a least one train at a stand in the tunnel behind it. Yes, that's probably true on the busier lines with trains every two minutes. I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to the stalled train ahead. Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station. Not normally done on LU AFAIAA, mainly because of the need for something to push the stalled train and the likelihood that by that time the preceding station will also have a train in the platform. At some locations there might be a convenient crossover for a train to be backed out if the stalled train cannot be moved without engineering intervention. One or two trains in a tunnel between two occupied platforms is probably a regular event on the Jubilee Line and others with close signalling and an intensive service; in some places on ATO lines you can often see a following train less than a length away from the platform when there is bunching. If the platform is already occupied, the reversing train will either couple up to it, or the other train will also reverse a short distance, so that one passenger door of the first train can get to the platform. Obviously, this only happens once they have given up on moving the stalled train any time soon. |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In message , at 23:24:39 on
Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Charles Ellson remarked: I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to the stalled train ahead. Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station. Not normally done on LU AFAIAA I'd ask Recliner if he's ever seen a report of the activity he describes taking place. -- Roland Perry |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 17:26:06 +0000, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On Tue 26/03/2019 10:19, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:07:00 on Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Jeremy Double remarked: There's probably around a thousand trains without toilets in and around London. I know but it's becoming obvious that this is unsatisfactory. I’m not sure where you’d put toilets on tube stock without obstructing the emergency exit to the next carriage; as you can’t walk through the train, would you want a toilet in each carriage? The point is made in the RAIB report that in the event of a train being unable to move, underground trains behind it are held at stations, so the problem that arose at Lewisham wouldn’t arise. This seems a very reasonable approach on a metro-style railway where the trains are not provided with toilets. There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. There are quite a few. On your journey 8 of the 12 stations travelled through have toilets. There are fewer toilets on the deep bored sections. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On 27/03/2019 09:14, David Walters wrote:
There are quite a few. On your journey 8 of the 12 stations travelled through have toilets. There are fewer toilets on the deep bored sections. Any chance the SuperSewer will improve this situation? |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:12:33 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 23:24:39 on Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Charles Ellson remarked: I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to the stalled train ahead. Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station. Not normally done on LU AFAIAA I'd ask Recliner if he's ever seen a report of the activity he describes taking place. My old man worked on the Met, rising via yard manager at Neasden and station master, to becoming an area manager. He told the story or some bright young manager ordering an 8-car train of A-stock to couple up behind another 8-car train that had failed. Making it too long for a short section - the average block length is about 300 metres so some are shorter, and a 16-car A-stock train would be 256. So it would occupy three blocks at a time. I have no idea how it was sorted out. |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In article ,
MissRiaElaine wrote: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf -- Natalie Amery. +---------+ ________________ _________________ ##### |Cambridge| |# [] ## ## [] # | | # [] ## ## [] #| #######__o +-+-----+-+ | [] [] | | [] [] | #######'/ ----------+-----+--------- \-oo----------oo-/+\-oo----------oo-/ |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed,
27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. -- Roland Perry |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:22:33 +0000, Someone Somewhere
wrote: On 27/03/2019 09:14, David Walters wrote: There are quite a few. On your journey 8 of the 12 stations travelled through have toilets. There are fewer toilets on the deep bored sections. Any chance the SuperSewer will improve this situation? It could produce some spectacular backing up. |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 05:37:31 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
wrote: On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:12:33 +0000, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 23:24:39 on Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Charles Ellson remarked: I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to the stalled train ahead. Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station. Not normally done on LU AFAIAA I'd ask Recliner if he's ever seen a report of the activity he describes taking place. My old man worked on the Met, rising via yard manager at Neasden and station master, to becoming an area manager. He told the story or some bright young manager ordering an 8-car train of A-stock to couple up behind another 8-car train that had failed. Making it too long for a short section - the average block length is about 300 metres so some are shorter, and a 16-car A-stock train would be 256. So it would occupy three blocks at a time. I have no idea how it was sorted out. It would not have been a rare version of assistance on the Underground. Depending on where/what the fault was there would have been the opportunity to rearrange into different combinations of 4-coach units but the main problem might not have amounted to more than isolating the tripcock on the rear 8 set to conform to the standard practice of only the end vehicles having an operational tripcock (if you didn't disable the trips on the middle cabs of an 8 coach train you would get tripped all day). |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On 27/03/2019 18:51, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:22:33 +0000, Someone Somewhere wrote: On 27/03/2019 09:14, David Walters wrote: There are quite a few. On your journey 8 of the 12 stations travelled through have toilets. There are fewer toilets on the deep bored sections. Any chance the SuperSewer will improve this situation? It could produce some spectacular backing up. I was more suggesting (although half joking) that given the super sewer will somewhat guarantee for the first time that the sewer was lower than the drains in even deep level tubes it might make installing bogs easier. But then again, toilets don't drive revenue so adding new ones is presumably off the bottom of whatever today's priority list is. |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 07:12:33 +0000, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 23:24:39 on Tue, 26 Mar 2019, Charles Ellson remarked: I think the train behind is then instructed to proceed slowly and couple to the stalled train ahead. Alternatively, it can be instructed to reverse to the previous station. Not normally done on LU AFAIAA I'd ask Recliner if he's ever seen a report of the activity he describes taking place. My old man worked on the Met, rising via yard manager at Neasden and station master, to becoming an area manager. He told the story or some bright young manager ordering an 8-car train of A-stock to couple up behind another 8-car train that had failed. Making it too long for a short section - the average block length is about 300 metres so some are shorter, and a 16-car A-stock train would be 256. So it would occupy three blocks at a time. I have no idea how it was sorted out. Why would that be a problem, other than at the terminus? Presumably they were only going to run to the next station with passengers on and then detrain, then run empty to a siding or depot. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed, 27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline features on the map). Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger. If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington, Bristol Parkway, Swansea). Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar
2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed, 27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline features on the map). There's three situations: Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Situated and managed by "someone else". Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger. I can't see any in Z1 which aren't. If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington, Bristol Parkway, Swansea). "Station operator" - see above for whether that's TfL or National Rail. So yes, a toilet at say Kings Cross sited and managed by the NR operator (in that case Network Rail) isn't in the tube station. -- Roland Perry |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On 28/03/2019 14:23, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed, 27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline features on the map). There's three situations: Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Situated and managed by "someone else". Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger. I can't see any in Z1 which aren't. I can't see why that matters. But if it does there's Baker Street. Plus Shoreditch High Street on the Overground. If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington, Bristol Parkway, Swansea). "Station operator" - see above for whether that's TfL or National Rail. So yes, a toilet at say Kings Cross sited and managed by the NR operator (in that case Network Rail) isn't in the tube station. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In message , at
15:06:02 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Robin remarked: On 28/03/2019 14:23, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed, 27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline features on the map). There's three situations: Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Situated and managed by "someone else". Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger. I can't see any in Z1 which aren't. I can't see why that matters. Because of the higher concentration of passengers. But if it does there's Baker Street. Plus Shoreditch High Street on the Overground. Fair enough (and I forgot the latter was infamously Z1; disabled toilet only, does it need a RADAR key? I'll forgive the thread drift from Underground Stations to Overground). -- Roland Perry |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
On 28/03/2019 15:50, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:06:02 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Robin remarked: On 28/03/2019 14:23, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed, 27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline features on the map). Â*There's three situations: Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* can find a counter-example) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Situated and managed by "someone else". Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger. Â*I can't see any in Z1 which aren't. I can't see why that matters. Because of the higher concentration of passengers. But if it does there's Baker Street.Â* Plus Shoreditch High Street on the Overground. Fair enough (and I forgot the latter was infamously Z1; disabled toilet only, does it need a RADAR key? I'll forgive the thread drift from Underground Stations to Overground). That's immensely kind of you. It was indeed stupid of me to think that someone who posted about the map that "That's not toilets at TfL stations..." expected comments about TfL stations other than underground stations. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington, Bristol Parkway, Swansea). "Station operator" - see above for whether that's TfL or National Rail. So yes, a toilet at say Kings Cross sited and managed by the NR operator (in that case Network Rail) isn't in the tube station. From personal experience the toilets are Westminster (20p) and Monument (free) are within the tube station building (although in the outside wall at Westminster) albeit not apparently managed by TfL. I believe the map is now incorrect in that the toilets in Charing Cross station are now free to use. -- Natalie Amery. There through all the heartache, ##### There through all the pain #######__o You still sense a deeper peace, #######'/ A strength you can't explain - Mark Dennis |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed, 27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline features on the map). There's three situations: Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Just at a glance, Barking, Upminster, Ealing Broadway, Wimbledon, Clapham Junction (presumably all NR toilets); Earls Court (I wonder who manages those). Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Situated and managed by "someone else". Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger. I can't see any in Z1 which aren't. Baker Street. Besides which I didn’t realise the discussion was limited to zone 1... Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In message , at
17:32:13 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Robin remarked: On 28/03/2019 15:50, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 15:06:02 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Robin remarked: On 28/03/2019 14:23, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:51:27 on Wed, 27 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets, either. The only one that springs to mind immediately is Barons Court, we'd just travelled from Hounslow West and my other half was absolutely bursting by the time we got there. More than you'd think: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/toilets-map.pdf That's not toilets at TfL stations, it's largely toilets somewhere near TfL stations. The clue being the black lozenge "outside the gateline". With a side order of "Dagger": not managed by TfL. Only the dagger means it’s not toilets at TfL stations (and not necessarily even then; red-with-dagger ie not TfL managed but still inside the gateline features on the map). Â*There's three situations: Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Inside the gateline (and probably inevitably managed by TfL, but Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* no doubt someone can find a counter-example) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Outside the gateline but managed by TfL (and probably therefore Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* quite close to the gateline/ticket office but no doubt someone Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* can find a counter-example) Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Situated and managed by "someone else". Most stations on the map aren’t marked with the dagger. Â*I can't see any in Z1 which aren't. I can't see why that matters. Because of the higher concentration of passengers. But if it does there's Baker Street.Â* Plus Shoreditch High Street on the Overground. Fair enough (and I forgot the latter was infamously Z1; disabled toilet only, does it need a RADAR key? I'll forgive the thread drift from Underground Stations to Overground). That's immensely kind of you. It was indeed stupid of me to think that someone who posted about the map that "That's not toilets at TfL stations..." expected comments about TfL stations other than underground stations. I'm not calling you stupid (nor a fish from Wanda) but you haven't been paying attention. Some highlights from the quping above: There aren't all that many Underground stations with public toilets More than you'd think etc -- Roland Perry |
Passengers on the line at Leiwsham - RAIB report
In message , at 17:47:53 on Thu,
28 Mar 2019, Natalie Amery remarked: In article , Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 11:24:52 on Thu, 28 Mar 2019, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked: If you wish to claim that toilets outside the gateline, but in the station building and managed by the station operator aren’t "at" the station, then surely many NR stations with toilets also "don’t" have them (eg Paddington, Bristol Parkway, Swansea). "Station operator" - see above for whether that's TfL or National Rail. So yes, a toilet at say Kings Cross sited and managed by the NR operator (in that case Network Rail) isn't in the tube station. From personal experience the toilets are Westminster (20p) Recent experience, I'm pretty sure they've been 50p for about a decade. and Monument (free) are within the tube station building (although in the outside wall at Westminster) albeit not apparently managed by TfL. The Westminster toilets are in an entirely council pedestrian underpass. Which also has a link to the tube station, which may have confused you. I believe the map is now incorrect in that the toilets in Charing Cross station are now free to use. Dunno. -- Roland Perry |
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