Roland Perry wrote:
In messge k, at
16:26:38 on Thu, 30 May 2019, Tim Woodall
remarked:
Doesn't this hinge on whether uber are agent or principal?

Here's a related case that went all the way to the court of appeal.
https://www.kwm.com/en/uk/knowledge/...gents-20160101

That's saying MedHotels wasn't acting simply as a conduit for
orders/money but was doing much more, being a self-contained
holiday-business with payments to hotels being imply one of its
overheads.

I don't think the billing matters. If I appoint you as my agent to
collect monies due to me and agree to pay you 10% of whatever you
collect then your turnover is the 10% and mine is 100% regardless of
whether, and how, the 10% ends up in my account and the 90% ends up in
mine.

Yes, TheTrainline is acting as agent for the TOCs, and their turnover is
only the 10% [well, 8% actually].

TheTrainline isn't a tour operator, in the sense of buying lots of
London-Manchester Open Returns off Virgin, and then hoping customers
will turn up and buy them. It's just a real-time conduit for orders.

Similarly, Uber doesn't pre-buy driver-hours (or driver-miles) from the
cabbies, and then hope it can sell them. It's just a real-time conduit
for orders.


And now there's another contender, prepared to make even bigger losses in
the quest for market sha
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rival-app-kapten-aims-to-drive-uber-off-the-road-as-cab-price-war-begins-ql50hf2d3?shareToken=ae520e4dc8d61cbc54da17360bf58 ba6

This story mentions that Uber now takes a 35% commission from new drivers.

In message , at 10:25:49 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:

And now there's another contender, prepared to make even bigger losses in
the quest for market sha
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...n=ae520e4dc8d6
1cbc54da17360bf58ba6

This story mentions that Uber now takes a 35% commission from new drivers.

£7.50/hr [Uber driver quoted] and providing your own car, doesn't seem
like it's worth it to me.

But I don't think Amazon delivery drivers have a much better deal.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:25:49 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:

And now there's another contender, prepared to make even bigger losses in
the quest for market sha
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...n=ae520e4dc8d6
1cbc54da17360bf58ba6

This story mentions that Uber now takes a 35% commission from new drivers.

£7.50/hr [Uber driver quoted] and providing your own car, doesn't seem
like it's worth it to me.

That's why only immigrants will do it. It's probably a step up from a car
wash.


But I don't think Amazon delivery drivers have a much better deal.

No, I suppose not.

At least Amazon drivers now turn up in smart newish (unmarked) vans, not
beaten-up private cars, like some other couriers. They also don't seem to
have impossible delivery rounds, as they nearly always turn up on the right
day, and don't falsely pretend they've attempted a delivery when they
haven't (unlike Parcelforce).

In message , at 22:37:39 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:25:49 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:

And now there's another contender, prepared to make even bigger losses in
the quest for market sha

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...s-to-drive-ube
r-off-the-road-as-cab-price-war-begins-ql50hf2d3?shareToken=ae520e4dc8d6
1cbc54da17360bf58ba6

This story mentions that Uber now takes a 35% commission from new drivers.

£7.50/hr [Uber driver quoted] and providing your own car, doesn't seem
like it's worth it to me.

That's why only immigrants will do it. It's probably a step up from a car
wash.

But I don't think Amazon delivery drivers have a much better deal.

No, I suppose not.

At least Amazon drivers now turn up in smart newish (unmarked) vans,

That may be a regional thing. My Amazon deliveries are still mainly
arriving in a beaten up and rattley ten year old car-based diesel van.
But is unmarked (by signage, anyway)

not beaten-up private cars, like some other couriers. They also don't
seem to have impossible delivery rounds, as they nearly always turn up
on the right day, and don't falsely pretend they've attempted a
delivery when they haven't (unlike Parcelforce).

I expect the Amazon drivers are tracked by their handheld devices which
may forbid the issuing of a "missed delivery" unless they are physically
on the doorstep.

The "silently post a card through the letterbox" syndrome is different,
and is more likely to be caused by the driver discovering the parcel o
his delivery list isn't in his van after all, but he has to register an
attempted delivery to make his quota. Amazon is likely better at
ensuring the vans are properly loaded at the depot.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 08:45:55 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:37:39 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:25:49 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:

And now there's another contender, prepared to make even bigger losses in
the quest for market sha

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...s-to-drive-ube
r-off-the-road-as-cab-price-war-begins-ql50hf2d3?shareToken=ae520e4dc8d6
1cbc54da17360bf58ba6

This story mentions that Uber now takes a 35% commission from new drivers.

£7.50/hr [Uber driver quoted] and providing your own car, doesn't seem
like it's worth it to me.

That's why only immigrants will do it. It's probably a step up from a car
wash.

But I don't think Amazon delivery drivers have a much better deal.

No, I suppose not.

At least Amazon drivers now turn up in smart newish (unmarked) vans,

That may be a regional thing. My Amazon deliveries are still mainly
arriving in a beaten up and rattley ten year old car-based diesel van.
But is unmarked (by signage, anyway)

not beaten-up private cars, like some other couriers. They also don't
seem to have impossible delivery rounds, as they nearly always turn up
on the right day, and don't falsely pretend they've attempted a
delivery when they haven't (unlike Parcelforce).

I expect the Amazon drivers are tracked by their handheld devices which
may forbid the issuing of a "missed delivery" unless they are physically
on the doorstep.

The "silently post a card through the letterbox" syndrome is different,
and is more likely to be caused by the driver discovering the parcel o
his delivery list isn't in his van after all, but he has to register an
attempted delivery to make his quota. Amazon is likely better at
ensuring the vans are properly loaded at the depot.

That problem is easily solved by visiting a shop and buying the goods there.
When you have a full time job you can't wait in for some oik in a van to show
up sometime between 8am-8pm so end up collecting from the delivery office or
depot anyway. Whats the point?

In message , at 08:14:05 on Sun, 2 Jun
2019, remarked:
£7.50/hr [Uber driver quoted] and providing your own car, doesn't seem
like it's worth it to me.

That's why only immigrants will do it. It's probably a step up from a car
wash.

But I don't think Amazon delivery drivers have a much better deal.

No, I suppose not.

At least Amazon drivers now turn up in smart newish (unmarked) vans,

That may be a regional thing. My Amazon deliveries are still mainly
arriving in a beaten up and rattley ten year old car-based diesel van.
But is unmarked (by signage, anyway)

not beaten-up private cars, like some other couriers. They also don't
seem to have impossible delivery rounds, as they nearly always turn up
on the right day, and don't falsely pretend they've attempted a
delivery when they haven't (unlike Parcelforce).

I expect the Amazon drivers are tracked by their handheld devices which
may forbid the issuing of a "missed delivery" unless they are physically
on the doorstep.

The "silently post a card through the letterbox" syndrome is different,
and is more likely to be caused by the driver discovering the parcel o
his delivery list isn't in his van after all, but he has to register an
attempted delivery to make his quota. Amazon is likely better at
ensuring the vans are properly loaded at the depot.

That problem is easily solved by visiting a shop and buying the goods there.

Not really, even not-that-local shops don't have most of the things I
buy online. Let alone the range of choice, or open Sundays.

When you have a full time job you can't wait in for some oik in a van to show
up sometime between 8am-8pm so end up collecting from the delivery office or
depot anyway. Whats the point?

We have neighbours, and they take parcels in. Other stuff fits through
the letterbox. Larger things I tend to specify "Click and Collect", so
can fetch them as easily as if that store had the stuff on the shelves
(which it never does).
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 10:25:48 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:14:05 on Sun, 2 Jun
2019, remarked:
That problem is easily solved by visiting a shop and buying the goods there.

Not really, even not-that-local shops don't have most of the things I
buy online. Let alone the range of choice, or open Sundays.

Unless you're buying dilithium for a warp drive you're building in your
shed I'd be rather surprised if you couldn't find it in a shop.

When you have a full time job you can't wait in for some oik in a van to show
up sometime between 8am-8pm so end up collecting from the delivery office or
depot anyway. Whats the point?

We have neighbours, and they take parcels in. Other stuff fits through

Yeah, and then when you go and collect them the neighbours are out or, as
happened to my wife a few years back, they'd gone on holiday the same day and
she had to wait a week to get her parcel. Also we've stopped accepting parcels
for a certain neighbour who seems to order something every week, we're not the
bloody post office.

On 02/06/2019 09:14, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 08:45:55 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:37:39 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:25:49 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:

And now there's another contender, prepared to make even bigger losses in
the quest for market sha

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...s-to-drive-ube
r-off-the-road-as-cab-price-war-begins-ql50hf2d3?shareToken=ae520e4dc8d6
1cbc54da17360bf58ba6

This story mentions that Uber now takes a 35% commission from new drivers.

£7.50/hr [Uber driver quoted] and providing your own car, doesn't seem
like it's worth it to me.

That's why only immigrants will do it. It's probably a step up from a car
wash.

But I don't think Amazon delivery drivers have a much better deal.

No, I suppose not.

At least Amazon drivers now turn up in smart newish (unmarked) vans,

That may be a regional thing. My Amazon deliveries are still mainly
arriving in a beaten up and rattley ten year old car-based diesel van.
But is unmarked (by signage, anyway)

not beaten-up private cars, like some other couriers. They also don't
seem to have impossible delivery rounds, as they nearly always turn up
on the right day, and don't falsely pretend they've attempted a
delivery when they haven't (unlike Parcelforce).

I expect the Amazon drivers are tracked by their handheld devices which
may forbid the issuing of a "missed delivery" unless they are physically
on the doorstep.

The "silently post a card through the letterbox" syndrome is different,
and is more likely to be caused by the driver discovering the parcel o
his delivery list isn't in his van after all, but he has to register an
attempted delivery to make his quota. Amazon is likely better at
ensuring the vans are properly loaded at the depot.

That problem is easily solved by visiting a shop and buying the goods there.
When you have a full time job you can't wait in for some oik in a van to show
up sometime between 8am-8pm so end up collecting from the delivery office or
depot anyway. Whats the point?

The difficulty comes in several parts. The first is finding a local shop
that stocks that DVD box set (or whatever) you want. The second is
finding it at an acceptable price, with the third being all the hassle
deliberately inflicted on people buying or collecting items at shops,
with punitive parking charges and shopping streets often not even
allowing traffic into them, etc.

A week or two back, I ordered one of those little adaptors which
converts a car's 12v port into two USB sockets (for power purposes only,
of course). I could have just picked one up at the local sub-PO, believe
it or not. But there, it was £6.99. On Amazon, it was £1.99 and having
been ordered at around 01:00, it arrived at around 15:00 the same day.

Local authorities who think they are being cute by preventing business
from being conducted are often the first to decry the death of the High
Street.

On Sun, Jun 02, 2019 at 08:14:05AM +0000, wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 08:45:55 +0100 Roland Perry wrote:
The "silently post a card through the letterbox" syndrome is different,
and is more likely to be caused by the driver discovering the parcel o
his delivery list isn't in his van after all, but he has to register an
attempted delivery to make his quota. Amazon is likely better at
ensuring the vans are properly loaded at the depot.
That problem is easily solved by visiting a shop and buying the goods there.
When you have a full time job you can't wait in for some oik in a van to show
up sometime between 8am-8pm so end up collecting from the delivery office or
depot anyway. Whats the point?

Taking my most recent Amazon order as an example, I probably could find
all the items in shops within a few miles, but I'd have to visit them
all in turn and spend most of Saturday doing so. Better by far to have
Amazon deliver to me. If they try to deliver while I'm out I can tell
them what day to try again (I can make sure that I'm working at home on
that day) or I can make one trip to their depot to pick everything up,
and then I can spend Saturday doing something better with my time like
cricket.

In practice, for most stuff I have them deliver to me at work, I only
have really bulky stuff delivered to me at home.

--
David Cantrell

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:37:39 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:25:49 on Sat, 1 Jun 2019,
Recliner remarked:

And now there's another contender, prepared to make even bigger losses in
the quest for market sha

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...s-to-drive-ube
r-off-the-road-as-cab-price-war-begins-ql50hf2d3?shareToken=ae520e4dc8d6
1cbc54da17360bf58ba6

This story mentions that Uber now takes a 35% commission from new drivers.

£7.50/hr [Uber driver quoted] and providing your own car, doesn't seem
like it's worth it to me.

That's why only immigrants will do it. It's probably a step up from a car
wash.

But I don't think Amazon delivery drivers have a much better deal.

No, I suppose not.

At least Amazon drivers now turn up in smart newish (unmarked) vans,

That may be a regional thing. My Amazon deliveries are still mainly
arriving in a beaten up and rattley ten year old car-based diesel van.
But is unmarked (by signage, anyway)

Mine come from Hemel Hempstead.


not beaten-up private cars, like some other couriers. They also don't
seem to have impossible delivery rounds, as they nearly always turn up
on the right day, and don't falsely pretend they've attempted a
delivery when they haven't (unlike Parcelforce).

I expect the Amazon drivers are tracked by their handheld devices which
may forbid the issuing of a "missed delivery" unless they are physically
on the doorstep.

Yes, very likely. They certainly track them in real time, and so can you,
as they show them on a map when they're under ten deliveries away, and tell
you how many more they have to do before getting to you.


The "silently post a card through the letterbox" syndrome is different,
and is more likely to be caused by the driver discovering the parcel o
his delivery list isn't in his van after all, but he has to register an
attempted delivery to make his quota. Amazon is likely better at
ensuring the vans are properly loaded at the depot.

I've had more than one Parcelforce 'delivery' where no delivery was
attempted, and no postcard through the door. But on their website, they
claimed that a delivery had been attempted, and the parcel had then been
taken to the local Post Office. My guess is that the driver was running
late, and just dropped all the remaining parcels off there.