Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 14/12/2019 20:52, Marland wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 10:12:42 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:18:56 on Sat, 14 Dec
2019, remarked:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:18:51 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
As I said if anyobe had bothered to read - I have relatives living in a
village near Huntingdon directly impacted by this bloody bypass. The amount
of farmland concreted over for it just so some drivers can save 15 mins is
obscene and thats before the extra pollution and noise is taken into
account.

I don't know how much farmland is actually being taken long-term (I do
have the scheme plans, but I have better things to do), but there will
actually be *less* pollution and noise because people won't be sitting
in almost-stationary cars for ages with their engines running.

Ah, the old build more roads to solve congestion and pollution fallacy.

If planned properly, they work fine.

Sure, it all goes to plan for a few years. Then ever more people start to use
the route and in a decade or so you're back where you started except now the
jams have twice as many cars with twice the pollution. The best example of this
in the UK is the M25. No matter how much they widen it it just jams up again
in a few years. It has 6 lanes each way around Heathrow yet they're still often
jammed solid in the rush hour. So what do you do, widen it to 8 lanes, 10?
Where does it stop?

By stopping people breeding or the population increasing by immigration.

We entered a period of what is going to be a generation of political
upheaval partly to deal with the expectations by some that the latter can
be managed in some way that pleases them.
The other can only be done in a civilised society by encouragement .
If people have only two children they are just replacing themselves but
many have more.


Actually the replacement rate is about 2.4 children per couple to allow
for infertility, , infant mortality, gay couples and those who just
don't want children. Currently the average is nearer 1.8 so in the long
term the population of this country is going to shrink fairly rapidly.
The downside is the population is getting older. It's a phenomenon that
is being repeated across the world as people get better educated and the
religious ties are loosened.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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On 14/12/2019 21:55, Graeme Wall wrote:

Actually the replacement rate is about 2.4 children per couple to allow
for infertility, , infant mortality, gay couples and those who just
don't want children. Currently the average is nearer 1.8 so in the long
term the population of this country is going to shrink fairly rapidly.
The downside is the population is getting older. It's a phenomenon that
is being repeated across the world as people get better educated and the
religious ties are loosened.


I don't know what you mean by "long term" but the ONS project the
population of the UK continuing to increase through to 2043.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:22:53 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:58:48 on Sat, 14 Dec
2019, remarked:
Sure, it all goes to plan for a few years. Then ever more people start to use
the route and in a decade or so you're back where you started except now the
jams have twice as many cars with twice the pollution. The best example of
this
in the UK is the M25. No matter how much they widen it it just jams up again
in a few years. It has 6 lanes each way around Heathrow yet they're still
often
jammed solid in the rush hour. So what do you do, widen it to 8 lanes, 10?
Where does it stop?

When they plan it better and segregate the long distance and local
traffic. The problem with that bit of the M25 (and I lived *there* 25yrs
ago and saw it first hand) was mixing them up.

And how do you plan to segregate them? Either you allow local traffic onto
the M25 or you close the junctions.

The newest bit of A14 (remember, the road we are discussing) segregates
them, just as the A1(M) north of Huntingdon does, the road which hasn't
shown any sign of jamming up 20yrs later.

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or midlands
as there are too many roundabouts, too much slowing down and speeding up and
too many selfish truckers doing the tortoise race holding up a quarter mile of
traffic as they pass each other at 0.5mph difference in order to gain 1 minute
that they immediately lose at the next roundabout anyway.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 15/12/2019 09:19, Robin wrote:
On 14/12/2019 21:55, Graeme Wall wrote:

Actually the replacement rate is about 2.4 children per couple to
allow for infertility, , infant mortality, gay couples and those who
just don't want children. Currently the average is nearer 1.8 so in
the long term the population of this country is going to shrink fairly
rapidly. The downside is the population is getting older. It's a
phenomenon that is being repeated across the world as people get
better educated and the religious ties are loosened.


I don't know what you mean by "long term" but the ONS project the
population of the UK continuing to increase through to 2043.



After the middle of the century as the offspring of the baby boomers
start to die out and the influence of effective contraception took hold
from the mid 1960s onward.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 15/12/2019 10:25, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/12/2019 09:19, Robin wrote:
On 14/12/2019 21:55, Graeme Wall wrote:

Actually the replacement rate is about 2.4 children per couple to
allow for infertility, , infant mortality, gay couples and those who
just don't want children. Currently the average is nearer 1.8 so in
the long term the population of this country is going to shrink
fairly rapidly. The downside is the population is getting older. It's
a phenomenon that is being repeated across the world as people get
better educated and the religious ties are loosened.


I don't know what you mean by "long term" but the ONS project the
population of the UK continuing to increase through to 2043.



After the middle of the century as the offspring of the baby boomers
start to die out and the influence of effective contraception took hold
from the mid 1960s onward.


Thanks for calibrating "long term".

While you may of course be right I'll merely note that the statisticians
at Eurostat do not agree. They project the UK population continuing to
increase (albeit more slowly) through to 2100.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/po...ta/main-tables

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

In message , at 09:59:22 on Sun, 15 Dec
2019, remarked:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:22:53 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:58:48 on Sat, 14 Dec
2019, remarked:
Sure, it all goes to plan for a few years. Then ever more people start to use
the route and in a decade or so you're back where you started except now the
jams have twice as many cars with twice the pollution. The best example of
this
in the UK is the M25. No matter how much they widen it it just jams up again
in a few years. It has 6 lanes each way around Heathrow yet they're still
often
jammed solid in the rush hour. So what do you do, widen it to 8 lanes, 10?
Where does it stop?

When they plan it better and segregate the long distance and local
traffic. The problem with that bit of the M25 (and I lived *there* 25yrs
ago and saw it first hand) was mixing them up.

And how do you plan to segregate them? Either you allow local traffic onto
the M25 or you close the junctions.

You build a local road in parallel.

The newest bit of A14 (remember, the road we are discussing) segregates
them, just as the A1(M) north of Huntingdon does, the road which hasn't
shown any sign of jamming up 20yrs later.

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or
midlands as there are too many roundabouts,

Almost none left now.

too much slowing down and speeding up and too many selfish truckers
doing the tortoise race holding up a quarter mile of traffic as they
pass each other at 0.5mph difference in order to gain 1 minute that
they immediately lose at the next roundabout anyway.

There typically isn't a "next roundabout", but I agree that HGV-races
are a pain, and hence why some roads (like the new A14, and the 20yr old
A1(M) in north Cambs) are built with more than 2 lanes.
--
Roland Perry

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 15/12/2019 10:44, Robin wrote:
On 15/12/2019 10:25, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/12/2019 09:19, Robin wrote:
On 14/12/2019 21:55, Graeme Wall wrote:

Actually the replacement rate is about 2.4 children per couple to
allow for infertility, , infant mortality, gay couples and those who
just don't want children. Currently the average is nearer 1.8 so in
the long term the population of this country is going to shrink
fairly rapidly. The downside is the population is getting older.
It's a phenomenon that is being repeated across the world as people
get better educated and the religious ties are loosened.


I don't know what you mean by "long term" but the ONS project the
population of the UK continuing to increase through to 2043.



After the middle of the century as the offspring of the baby boomers
start to die out and the influence of effective contraception took
hold from the mid 1960s onward.


Thanks for calibrating "long term".

While you may of course be right I'll merely note that the statisticians
at Eurostat do not agree.Â* They project the UK population continuing to
increase (albeit more slowly) through to 2100.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/po...ta/main-tables



A quick look at the fertility table shows the rate in the UK varying
from a low of 1.27 in inner London to a high of 1.97 in outer London for
2017. The general trend is consistently falling across the country over
the 5 year period on the chart.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 15/12/2019 11:24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:59:22 on Sun, 15 Dec
2019, remarked:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:22:53 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:58:48 on Sat, 14 Dec
2019, remarked:
Sure, it all goes to plan for a few years. Then ever more people
start to use
the route and in a decade or so you're back where you started except
now the
jams have twice as many cars with twice the pollution. The best
example of
this
in the UK is the M25. No matter how much they widen it it just jams
up again
in a few years. It has 6 lanes each way around Heathrow yet they're
still
often
jammed solid in the rush hour. So what do you do, widen it to 8
lanes, 10?
Where does it stop?

When they plan it better and segregate the long distance and local
traffic. The problem with that bit of the M25 (and I lived *there* 25yrs
ago and saw it first hand) was mixing them up.

And how do you plan to segregate them? Either you allow local traffic
onto
the M25 or you close the junctions.

You build a local road in parallel.

Where? There are already local rads in parallel and they are swamped too.


The newest bit of A14 (remember, the road we are discussing) segregates
them, just as the A1(M) north of Huntingdon does, the road which hasn't
shown any sign of jamming up 20yrs later.

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south
or midlands as there are too many roundabouts,

Almost none left now.

too much slowing down and speeding up and too many selfish truckers
doing the tortoise race holding up a quarter mile of traffic as they
pass each other at 0.5mph difference in order to gain 1 minute that
they immediately lose at the next roundabout anyway.

There typically isn't a "next roundabout", but I agree that HGV-races
are a pain, and hence why some roads (like the new A14, and the 20yr old
A1(M) in north Cambs) are built with more than 2 lanes.

They tried banning HGVs from the outside lane on a hilly section of the
A34 around Didcot. It was routinely ignored and TVP didn't have the
resources or inclination to police it properly.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

In message , at 11:45:31 on Sun, 15 Dec
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
On 15/12/2019 11:24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:59:22 on Sun, 15 Dec
2019, remarked:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:22:53 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:58:48 on Sat, 14 Dec
2019, remarked:
Sure, it all goes to plan for a few years. Then ever more people
start to use
the route and in a decade or so you're back where you started
except now the
jams have twice as many cars with twice the pollution. The best
example of
this
in the UK is the M25. No matter how much they widen it it just
jams up again
in a few years. It has 6 lanes each way around Heathrow yet
they're still
often
jammed solid in the rush hour. So what do you do, widen it to 8
lanes, 10?
Where does it stop?

When they plan it better and segregate the long distance and local
traffic. The problem with that bit of the M25 (and I lived *there* 25yrs
ago and saw it first hand) was mixing them up.

And how do you plan to segregate them? Either you allow local
traffic onto
the M25 or you close the junctions.
You build a local road in parallel.

Where? There are already local rads in parallel and they are swamped too.

There are legacy local roads well away from the M25 corridor itself.
None that I'm aware of newly built as M25 local relief roads.

The newest bit of A14 (remember, the road we are discussing)
segregates
them, just as the A1(M) north of Huntingdon does, the road which hasn't
shown any sign of jamming up 20yrs later.

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south
or midlands as there are too many roundabouts,
Almost none left now.

too much slowing down and speeding up and too many selfish truckers
doing the tortoise race holding up a quarter mile of traffic as they
pass each other at 0.5mph difference in order to gain 1 minute that
they immediately lose at the next roundabout anyway.
There typically isn't a "next roundabout", but I agree that
HGV-races are a pain, and hence why some roads (like the new A14, and
the 20yr old A1(M) in north Cambs) are built with more than 2 lanes.

They tried banning HGVs from the outside lane on a hilly section of the
A34 around Didcot.

That's only 2-lane, I think. Or are you saying HGVs are racing also in a
third lane?

It was routinely ignored and TVP didn't have the resources or
inclination to police it properly.

If they can catch and ANPR people speeding in any lane, they can issue
tickets to HGVs in the 'wrong' lane.
--
Roland Perry

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 15/12/2019 11:56, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:45:31 on Sun, 15 Dec
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
On 15/12/2019 11:24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:59:22 on Sun, 15 Dec
2019, remarked:
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:22:53 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:58:48 on Sat, 14 Dec
2019, remarked:
Sure, it all goes to plan for a few years. Then ever more people
start to use
the route and in a decade or so you're back where you started
exceptÂ* now the
jams have twice as many cars with twice the pollution. The best
example of
this
in the UK is the M25. No matter how much they widen it it just
jamsÂ* up again
in a few years. It has 6 lanes each way around Heathrow yet
they'reÂ* still
often
jammed solid in the rush hour. So what do you do, widen it to 8
lanes, 10?
Where does it stop?

When they plan it better and segregate the long distance and local
traffic. The problem with that bit of the M25 (and I lived *there*
25yrs
ago and saw it first hand) was mixing them up.

And how do you plan to segregate them? Either you allow local
trafficÂ* onto
the M25 or you close the junctions.
Â*You build a local road in parallel.

Where? There are already local rads in parallel and they are swamped too.

There are legacy local roads well away from the M25 corridor itself.
None that I'm aware of newly built as M25 local relief roads.

The newest bit of A14 (remember, the road we are discussing)
segregates
them, just as the A1(M) north of Huntingdon does, the road which
hasn't
shown any sign of jamming up 20yrs later.

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south
or midlands as there are too many roundabouts,
Â*Almost none left now.

too much slowing down and speeding up and too many selfish truckers
doing the tortoise race holding up a quarter mile of traffic as they
pass each other at 0.5mph difference in order to gain 1 minute that
they immediately lose at the next roundabout anyway.
Â*There typically isn't a "next roundabout", but I agree that
HGV-racesÂ* are a pain, and hence why some roads (like the new A14,
and the 20yr oldÂ* A1(M) in north Cambs) are built with more than 2
lanes.

They tried banning HGVs from the outside lane on a hilly section of
the A34 around Didcot.

That's only 2-lane, I think. Or are you saying HGVs are racing also in a
third lane?

No 2 lane, it was an attempt to solve the problem on the cheap.


It was routinely ignored and TVP didn't have the resources or
inclination to police it properly.

If they can catch and ANPR people speeding in any lane, they can issue
tickets to HGVs in the 'wrong' lane.

First install your ANPR cameras. It is not an area where too much
speeding can take place because of the hills.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 15/12/2019 09:59, wrote:

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or midlands
as there are too many roundabouts,

I think the A1/A1M has two or three roundabouts between the London
boundary and Northumberland.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Can - 1976 - Flow Motion

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On 15/12/2019 11:42, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/12/2019 10:44, Robin wrote:
On 15/12/2019 10:25, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/12/2019 09:19, Robin wrote:
On 14/12/2019 21:55, Graeme Wall wrote:

Actually the replacement rate is about 2.4 children per couple to
allow for infertility, , infant mortality, gay couples and those
who just don't want children. Currently the average is nearer 1.8
so in the long term the population of this country is going to
shrink fairly rapidly. The downside is the population is getting
older. It's a phenomenon that is being repeated across the world as
people get better educated and the religious ties are loosened.


I don't know what you mean by "long term" but the ONS project the
population of the UK continuing to increase through to 2043.



After the middle of the century as the offspring of the baby boomers
start to die out and the influence of effective contraception took
hold from the mid 1960s onward.


Thanks for calibrating "long term".

While you may of course be right I'll merely note that the
statisticians at Eurostat do not agree.Â* They project the UK
population continuing to increase (albeit more slowly) through to 2100.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/po...ta/main-tables



A quick look at the fertility table shows the rate in the UK varying
from a low of 1.27 in inner London to a high of 1.97 in outer London for
2017. The general trend is consistently falling across the country over
the 5 year period on the chart.


I'm unclear if you are saying Eurostat have made mistakes in their
projections of population growth continuing through to 2100. All I know
is that fertility is not the only factor.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

In article , Basil Jet
writes
On 15/12/2019 09:59, wrote:
I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or
midlands
as there are too many roundabouts,

I think the A1/A1M has two or three roundabouts between the London
boundary and Northumberland.

Off the top of my head the only one I can think of is the Black Cat.

Google Maps says that, after the A411 in Borehamwood, there are two at
Biggleswade, one at Sandy, the Black Cat, then the A1167 at Scremerston.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On 15/12/2019 13:34, Robin wrote:
On 15/12/2019 11:42, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/12/2019 10:44, Robin wrote:
On 15/12/2019 10:25, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 15/12/2019 09:19, Robin wrote:
On 14/12/2019 21:55, Graeme Wall wrote:

Actually the replacement rate is about 2.4 children per couple to
allow for infertility, , infant mortality, gay couples and those
who just don't want children. Currently the average is nearer 1.8
so in the long term the population of this country is going to
shrink fairly rapidly. The downside is the population is getting
older. It's a phenomenon that is being repeated across the world
as people get better educated and the religious ties are loosened.


I don't know what you mean by "long term" but the ONS project the
population of the UK continuing to increase through to 2043.



After the middle of the century as the offspring of the baby boomers
start to die out and the influence of effective contraception took
hold from the mid 1960s onward.


Thanks for calibrating "long term".

While you may of course be right I'll merely note that the
statisticians at Eurostat do not agree.Â* They project the UK
population continuing to increase (albeit more slowly) through to 2100.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/po...ta/main-tables



A quick look at the fertility table shows the rate in the UK varying
from a low of 1.27 in inner London to a high of 1.97 in outer London
for 2017. The general trend is consistently falling across the country
over the 5 year period on the chart.


I'm unclear if you are saying Eurostat have made mistakes in their
projections of population growth continuing through to 2100. All I know
is that fertility is not the only factor.


Just saying those figures are of the same order as the ones I derived
from the New Scientist report on population changes a few months back.
They will, inevitably, lead to a decline in the population in the long
term. Defining that long term is a bit woolly but I would think the
Eurostat projections are a mite pessimistic.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:50:52 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 15/12/2019 09:59, wrote:

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or
midlands
as there are too many roundabouts,

I think the A1/A1M has two or three roundabouts between the London
boundary and Northumberland.

And the rest:

Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

All in the same 50 mile stretch and all with queues during a weekday and thats
before you take into account some tight curves and average speed camera enforced
speed restrictions in the non motorway bedfordshire section. I made the mistake
of driving to Edinburgh up the A1 about 5 years ago. Its not one I shall be
repeating anytime soon though given the endless roadworks on the M1 with barely
a worker to be seen for 5 miles at a time its a PITA going north out of London
for any significant distance atm.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

In article , writes
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:50:52 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 15/12/2019 09:59, wrote:

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or
midlands
as there are too many roundabouts,

I think the A1/A1M has two or three roundabouts between the London
boundary and Northumberland.

And the rest:

Apex Corner
Stirling Corner

Aren't both those within London? And I listed the second one, though not
under that name.

Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat

Agreed. I listed all those.

Buckden

Oops: I managed to miss that one.

After Buckden, though, I think the next one is at Scremerston, on the
edge of Berwick-on-Tweed.

So 5 roundabouts between the London boundary and Northumberland. All
south of St.Neots. I agree that that's not perfect, though it's a lot
better than when I had to go to Tyne and Wear regularly, and at least
the Black Cat is on the list for rebuilding properly.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

wrote in message ...
On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 17:22:53 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:58:48 on Sat, 14 Dec
2019, remarked:
Sure, it all goes to plan for a few years. Then ever more people start to
use
the route and in a decade or so you're back where you started except now
the
jams have twice as many cars with twice the pollution. The best example
of
this
in the UK is the M25. No matter how much they widen it it just jams up
again
in a few years. It has 6 lanes each way around Heathrow yet they're still
often
jammed solid in the rush hour. So what do you do, widen it to 8 lanes,
10?
Where does it stop?

When they plan it better and segregate the long distance and local
traffic. The problem with that bit of the M25 (and I lived *there* 25yrs
ago and saw it first hand) was mixing them up.

And how do you plan to segregate them? Either you allow local traffic onto
the M25 or you close the junctions.

The newest bit of A14 (remember, the road we are discussing) segregates
them, just as the A1(M) north of Huntingdon does, the road which hasn't
shown any sign of jamming up 20yrs later.

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or
midlands
as there are too many roundabouts, too much slowing down and speeding up
and
too many selfish truckers doing the tortoise race holding up a quarter
mile of
traffic as they pass each other at 0.5mph difference in order to gain 1
minute
that they immediately lose at the next roundabout anyway.

A1 is now roundabout free from Buckden to Newcastle

tim

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

wrote in message ...
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 12:50:52 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 15/12/2019 09:59, wrote:

I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or
midlands
as there are too many roundabouts,

I think the A1/A1M has two or three roundabouts between the London
boundary and Northumberland.

And the rest:

Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

tim

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

I have a vague memory that if you try to divide the UK by population
into three equal parts with two east-west lines, one goes through St.
Albans and the other through Peterborough. But I could be wrong and
can't be bothered to seek out the data and reconstruct it.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

Neil lives in northeast London.


I have a vague memory that if you try to divide the UK by population
into three equal parts with two east-west lines, one goes through St.
Albans and the other through Peterborough. But I could be wrong and
can't be bothered to seek out the data and reconstruct it.

There's a general drift of the population in a southerly direction, so such
lines have probably moved south, too.

Latest Heathrow master plan
 

"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

I have a vague memory that if you try to divide the UK by population
into three equal parts with two east-west lines, one goes through St.
Albans and the other through Peterborough. But I could be wrong and
can't be bothered to seek out the data and reconstruct it.

Sorry, doesn't pass scrutiny

If we just look at GB,

the total population is around 61,500,000,

so one third is 20,500,000

Population of Scotland + NW + NE + Yorks regions is 20,300,000, and that
doesn't include the part of Wales and East Mids that are north of the
southernmost point of the others.

So a line somewhere around Chester demarcates the Northern part

Adding in NI to consider UK as a whole moves the point further North

SE + SW + London is 22,000,00 so a point somewhere between St Albans and
Luton could be the southern part

tim

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:22:29 +0000, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article , Basil Jet
writes
On 15/12/2019 09:59, wrote:
I doubt many people use the A1 for long distance travel in the south or
midlands
as there are too many roundabouts,

I think the A1/A1M has two or three roundabouts between the London
boundary and Northumberland.

Off the top of my head the only one I can think of is the Black Cat.

Google Maps says that, after the A411 in Borehamwood,

The A411 roundabout (Stirling Corner) is in London, the Barnet boundary
runs on the west side of the A1 as far as the A5135.

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On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:23:11 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

Neil lives in northeast London.

Wrong. Have another go.

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:27:49 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

Its all norf o' wotfard init? ;)

I guess it depends how you define bedfordshires location. I'd call it the south
midlands and I'd say "the south" ends at the northern hertfordshire border.
But thats just how I think of it, ymmv.

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wrote:
On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:27:49 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

Its all norf o' wotfard init? ;)

I guess it depends how you define bedfordshires location. I'd call it the south
midlands and I'd say "the south" ends at the northern hertfordshire border.
But thats just how I think of it, ymmv.



Ignoring some that shifted at the weekend the old ITV regions were a
reasonable guide to where an area
was supposed to be a situation that is completely mucked up now with
places like Bicester being reported on
on broadcasts alongside reports about Bournemouth.



GH

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wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:23:11 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

Neil lives in northeast London.

Wrong. Have another go.



I suppose you prefer to call it North London?

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On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:08:34 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 00:23:11 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article , tim...
writes
Apex Corner
Stirling Corner
Biggleswade x 2
Sandy
Black Cat
Buckden

That's a rather strange definition of "The Midlands"

Boltar clearly comes from sarf of the Thames.

Neil lives in northeast London.

Wrong. Have another go.



I suppose you prefer to call it North London?

You're assuming I still live in London. But keep guessing, its amusing.