Northern Line goes south
 

On 08/09/2019 15:38, Recliner wrote:

Engineering went metric many decades ago. Nobody would dream of
engineering a new British car using imperial measurements. In fact, no
engineers still working would have any experience of anything but SI
units.

And why do you think car acceleration timings in the UK are quoted for
the 0-62.5mph range? They gave up on 0-60 long ago.


Engineering in my experience still used imperial measurements where I
was working in 2005, sometimes we got orders in for plate steel in feet
and inches, yet a metric thickness and I also saw them in metric sizes
but a specific gauge. They *have* to understand the difference between
the two to prevent any misunderstandings with American companies who
still use feet and inches on a regular basis.

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.

Northern Line goes south
 

In message , at 10:06:34 on Mon, 9 Sep 2019,
Basil Jet remarked:
On 09/09/2019 09:25, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:58:14 on Sun, 8 Sep
2019, Marland remarked:


It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.
--
Roland Perry

Northern Line goes south
 

Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:
On 08/09/2019 15:38, Recliner wrote:

Engineering went metric many decades ago. Nobody would dream of
engineering a new British car using imperial measurements. In fact, no
engineers still working would have any experience of anything but SI
units.

And why do you think car acceleration timings in the UK are quoted for
the 0-62.5mph range? They gave up on 0-60 long ago.


Engineering in my experience still used imperial measurements where I
was working in 2005, sometimes we got orders in for plate steel in feet
and inches, yet a metric thickness and I also saw them in metric sizes
but a specific gauge. They *have* to understand the difference between
the two to prevent any misunderstandings with American companies who
still use feet and inches on a regular basis.

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

I know the length of my British car in metres, and its weight in kg,
because that's how it was quoted when I bought it. And I'm sure the British
engineers who designed it also used metric.

Northern Line goes south
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:06:34 on Mon, 9 Sep 2019,
Basil Jet remarked:
On 09/09/2019 09:25, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:58:14 on Sun, 8 Sep
2019, Marland remarked:


It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.

GH

Northern Line goes south
 

On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Northern Line goes south
 

On 10/09/2019 22:41, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:06:34 on Mon, 9 Sep 2019,
Basil Jet remarked:
On 09/09/2019 09:25, Marland wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.

The Milestone Hotel in Kensington has a "1.5 Miles to London" milestone
outside it. This seems to be the distance to Hyde Park Corner. It is
definitely *not* the distance to CHX, St Pauls or Westminster.

The Sainsburys in North Finchley has a milestone with "8 miles to
London" outside it. This seems to be the distance to either CHX or St
Pauls, but probably not Westminster or Hyde Park Corner.

Hang on, the answers are here. There are lots of different origins.
http://www.metadyne.co.uk/n-milestones.html


--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Pearls Before Swine - 1971 - Beautiful Lies You Could Live In

Northern Line goes south
 

On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:

It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

I know the length of my British car in metres, and its weight in kg,
because that's how it was quoted when I bought it. And I'm sure the British
engineers who designed it also used metric.

I am not an ignorant *Brit* I think of myself as British, nor am I
ignorant. Using the term Brit is to me demeaning, and describing all of
us who still use miles as ignorant is very condescending. I lived in
Germany for three years when working as a contractor for the British
Army, and over there I used kilometres as the standard measurement for
distance, but in this country we still use miles, and long may it continue.

Northern Line goes south
 

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago. Temperatures, whether body or
atmospheric, need only be quoted in ºC. Water boils at 100º, not 212º, and
freezes at zero, not -32º. It's hot, not cold, when the temperature hits
30º. We use metric tonnes, not short or long tons. Our car engine sizes are
quoted in litres, not cubic inches. Races are run over hundred(s) of
metres, not yards.

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

Our neighbours in Ireland had no trouble adapting, so why do some Brit[on]s
(if you insist) still think we're in the 1970?

Northern Line goes south
 

Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:

It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

I know the length of my British car in metres, and its weight in kg,
because that's how it was quoted when I bought it. And I'm sure the British
engineers who designed it also used metric.

I am not an ignorant *Brit* I think of myself as British, nor am I
ignorant.

'British' is an adjective; what noun do you prefer?

Using the term Brit is to me demeaning, and describing all of
us who still use miles as ignorant is very condescending. I lived in
Germany for three years when working as a contractor for the British
Army, and over there I used kilometres as the standard measurement for
distance, but in this country we still use miles, and long may it continue.

Why? To what benefit?

Northern Line goes south
 

In message , at 21:41:10 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.

You are making the assumption that one or other is "correct" and the
other must therefore be "wrong".

And "people" do *know* things, like the Eleanor Cross was the
penultimate not final destination (and a village outside London, not
remotely the centre of London), and that the structure some distance
away outside Charing Cross station is a replica.

We also know that the General Post Office (which had a need to
understand distances) predates the majority of Turnpike Trusts by a
century.

And that the Romans (but only the Romans) used a stone near what's now
Cannon St station, and that the nearby Monument is a red herring.

Major "A" roads out of London converge towards St Paul's (even if some
have been de-trunked in recent times), not Trafalgar Square.

We also know that no-one has been able to find any records explaining
what traditional mappers regarded as the datum - some observers saying
that it was because "everyone knew", so no-one wrote it down.

But the consensus is that the AA *did* chose to consolidate on Trafalgar
Square (having previously used a bunch of gateway locations such as
Marble Arch), and hence I suggest the current meme arises from that.
--
Roland Perry

Northern Line goes south
 

In message , at 23:09:13 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, Basil Jet remarked:

The Milestone Hotel in Kensington has a "1.5 Miles to London" milestone
outside it. This seems to be the distance to Hyde Park Corner.

That's in the mould of the early AA distances - to a gateway on the edge
of London.

It is definitely *not* the distance to CHX, St Pauls or Westminster.

The Sainsburys in North Finchley has a milestone with "8 miles to
London" outside it. This seems to be the distance to either CHX or St
Pauls,

Holborn Bar, perhaps.

but probably not Westminster

Westminster (or Big Ben) is a red herring.

or Hyde Park Corner.

Hang on, the answers are here. There are lots of different origins.
http://www.metadyne.co.uk/n-milestones.html

Lots of different routes, doing their own thing. But the only distance
which had to be standardised (cf "Railway time") was for postage.
--
Roland Perry

Northern Line goes south
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago.

but not when it came to measuring roads

tim

Northern Line goes south
 

On 11/09/2019 12:13, tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago.

but not when it came to measuring roads


A case of pragmatism winning out, very little gain for a lot of expense.



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Northern Line goes south
 

On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?



--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Northern Line goes south
 

On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago. Temperatures, whether body or
atmospheric, need only be quoted in ºC. Water boils at 100º, not 212º, and
freezes at zero, not -32º. It's hot, not cold, when the temperature hits
30º. We use metric tonnes, not short or long tons. Our car engine sizes are
quoted in litres, not cubic inches. Races are run over hundred(s) of
metres, not yards.

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

Our neighbours in Ireland had no trouble adapting, so why do some Brit[on]s
(if you insist) still think we're in the 1970?

As I said before I spent three years in Germany using the metric
measurements, which I had to convert in my head into miles so that I
could understand them. I couldn't wait to get back to the UK and use
miles again. As to my weight I could probably tell you what it is in kg,
but to me that's a meaningless number and I need to change into stones
and pounds. When cooking I use imperial measurements throughout. As to
the fact that the Irish have found it easy to adapt to metrication, have
you *asked* them all.? I'm sure that there are some like me who have to
convert metric to imperial before they understand it.

Northern Line goes south
 

Recliner wrote:

I know my weight in kg.

But quick, what about stone?

Northern Line goes south
 

wRoland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:41:10 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.

You are making the assumption that one or other is "correct" and the
other must therefore be "wrong".

Where did I say that one or the other is is correct and the other wrong ?

All I asked for was an answer and it appears that there are several all
which of which could be correct for one purpose but not another.

Its almost as if you are wanting me to argue that your suggestion was wrong
so you you can start one of your long winded arguments to bolster your
ego even though I haven’t actually disagreed with you, just not accepted
that the one you put forward has any more merit to be the main one than any
other.

GH

Northern Line goes south
 

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago.

but not when it came to measuring roads

Of course they're metric. Try finding any imperial measurements in this
typical document:

http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standards/mchw/vol1/pdfs/MCHW%20700.pdf

Northern Line goes south
 

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/09/2019 12:13, tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago.

but not when it came to measuring roads


A case of pragmatism winning out, very little gain for a lot of expense.

All the road standards are metric, but it's apparently too expensive to
replace all the road signs. But it didn't stop Australia, Canada, India,
Ireland, South Africa, etc doing so.

Northern Line goes south
 

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

You can't live in the last century forever.

Northern Line goes south
 

Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Recliner wrote:

I know my weight in kg.

But quick, what about stone?


I've no idea. In always thought stones were a silly unit of measure.

Northern Line goes south
 

On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8

You can't live in the last century forever.
Will you tell the Americans or should I?

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Villagers - 2010 - Becoming A Jackal

Northern Line goes south
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8

That's Amazon US. But I agree, it's probably possible to set digital
thermometers to have a retro display.


You can't live in the last century forever.
Will you tell the Americans or should I?


They can live in the last century if they like, but it's not an option
anywhere else.

Northern Line goes south
 

On 11/09/2019 16:20, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8

That's Amazon US. But I agree, it's probably possible to set digital
thermometers to have a retro display.

You can't live in the last century forever.
Will you tell the Americans or should I?


They can live in the last century if they like, but it's not an option
anywhere else.

So long as we can buy their products or products made for them, it is.
(I'm a metric fan BTW, I'm just saying people don't have to be.)

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Villagers - 2010 - Becoming A Jackal

Northern Line goes south
 

In message , at 14:44:35 on Wed, 11
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
wRoland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:41:10 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.

You are making the assumption that one or other is "correct" and the
other must therefore be "wrong".

Where did I say that one or the other is is correct and the other wrong ?

You are implying that you are clinging to the Trafalgar Square meme,
which I don't think there's any evidence for other than the AA deciding
to use it.

All I asked for was an answer and it appears that there are several all
which of which could be correct for one purpose but not another.

We can agree about that. So no "main one", not even Trafalgar Square
(unless we count it being the main old wife's tale on the subject).

Its almost as if you are wanting me to argue that your suggestion was wrong
so you you can start one of your long winded arguments to bolster your
ego even though I haven’t actually disagreed with you, just not accepted
that the one you put forward has any more merit

Only precedence over Turnpikes and Trafalgar Square, and I wouldn't
accuse you of ego over the mention of Ongar for the tube distances, so
I'm not sure why that comes into it. I'm trying to write about some
serious historical research here.

to be the main one than any other.

See earlier.
--
Roland Perry

Northern Line goes south
 

On 11/09/2019 16:07, Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as
that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I
know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8


You can't live in the last century forever.
Will you tell the Americans or should I?


Never mind the Americans, someone tell Rees-Mogg.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Northern Line goes south
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago.

but not when it came to measuring roads

Of course they're metric. Try finding any imperial measurements in this
typical document:

http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standards/mchw/vol1/pdfs/MCHW%20700.pdf

I was talking about distance along them

as well you knew

Northern Line goes south
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:44:35 on Wed, 11
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
wRoland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:41:10 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.

You are making the assumption that one or other is "correct" and the
other must therefore be "wrong".

Where did I say that one or the other is is correct and the other wrong ?

You are implying that you are clinging to the Trafalgar Square meme,
which I don't think there's any evidence for other than the AA deciding
to use it.

I never even mentioned Trafalgar Square or the AA the only location I
mentioned was the original Charing Cross and even then asked for other
opinions on that rather saying it must be so.
Even for you this a new technique to justify turning a discussion into an
argument, by implying something from words somebody hasn’t said.

All I asked for was an answer and it appears that there are several all
which of which could be correct for one purpose but not another.

We can agree about that. So no "main one", not even Trafalgar Square
(unless we count it being the main old wife's tale on the subject).

Its almost as if you are wanting me to argue that your suggestion was wrong
so you you can start one of your long winded arguments to bolster your
ego even though I haven’t actually disagreed with you, just not accepted
that the one you put forward has any more merit

Only precedence over Turnpikes and Trafalgar Square, and I wouldn't
accuse you of ego over the mention of Ongar for the tube distances, so
I'm not sure why that comes into it. I'm trying to write about some
serious historical research here.

My mention of Ongar was done because it is an interesting Railway factoid
and also an example to our Aberdeen correspondent that the London Transport
they remember as an example tradition of the good old days initiated a
major Metrication exercise 40 years ago, it was from that you seem to have
decided that you want to hold a point scoring debate ,an activity you are
renowned for by mentioning the Post office datum which turns not to be the
only candidate for distances too and from London .

At least the Ongar one can be verified

GH

Northern Line goes south
 

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:07, Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as
that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I
know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8


You can't live in the last century forever.
Will you tell the Americans or should I?


Never mind the Americans, someone tell Rees-Mogg.


I don't have a time machine to the 18th century…

Northern Line goes south
 

In message , at 18:25:32 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, Marland remarked:

I never even mentioned Trafalgar Square or the AA the only location I
mentioned was the original Charing Cross

The original Charing Cross was located at what's now one of the corners
of Trafalgar Square.

and even then asked for other opinions on that rather saying it must
be so.

My opinion, based on quite a lot of research, being: having earlier
specified mileages to various gateways like Marble Arch, the AA decided
for its maps to consolidate on Trafalgar Square. This has become a meme
about "Charing Cross" (the original one only having a plaque) and an
unspoken implication that it has always been the case (long before the
AA)

Its almost as if you are wanting me to argue that your suggestion was wrong
so you you can start one of your long winded arguments to bolster your
ego even though I haven’t actually disagreed with you, just not accepted
that the one you put forward has any more merit

Only precedence over Turnpikes and Trafalgar Square, and I wouldn't
accuse you of ego over the mention of Ongar for the tube distances, so
I'm not sure why that comes into it. I'm trying to write about some
serious historical research here.

My mention of Ongar was done because it is an interesting Railway factoid
and also an example to our Aberdeen correspondent that the London Transport
they remember as an example tradition of the good old days initiated a
major Metrication exercise 40 years ago, it was from that you seem to have
decided that you want to hold a point scoring debate ,an activity you are
renowned for by mentioning the Post office datum which turns not to be the
only candidate

It's the original one, though (if you ignore the Romans). And the
Turnpikes used a range of gateways (not unlike the AA did originally,
perhaps they modelled themselves on those).

for distances too and from London .

At least the Ongar one can be verified

The Post Office one can be as well. The mystery about the Charing
Cross/AA one is that as far as I can tell no-one has ever been able to
expand on what it says on that fairly recent and vague plaque.

I think I'll do a FOI on Westminster City Council, and see what they
have to say.
--
Roland Perry

Northern Line goes south
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:25:32 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, Marland remarked:



My opinion, based on quite a lot of research, being: having earlier
specified mileages to various gateways like Marble Arch, the AA decided
for its maps to consolidate on Trafalgar Square. This has become a meme
about "Charing Cross" (the original one only having a plaque) and an
unspoken implication that it has always been the case (long before the
AA)

My mention of Ongar was done because it is an interesting Railway factoid
and also an example to our Aberdeen correspondent that the London Transport
they remember as an example tradition of the good old days initiated a
major Metrication exercise 40 years ago, it was from that you seem to have
decided that you want to hold a point scoring debate ,an activity you are
renowned for by mentioning the Post office datum which turns not to be the
only candidate

It's the original one, though (if you ignore the Romans). And the
Turnpikes used a range of gateways (not unlike the AA did originally,
perhaps they modelled themselves on those).

for distances too and from London .

At least the Ongar one can be verified

The Post Office one can be as well. The mystery about the Charing
Cross/AA one is that as far as I can tell no-one has ever been able to
expand on what it says on that fairly recent and vague plaque.

I think I'll do a FOI on Westminster City Council, and see what they
have to say.

That would be interesting, I wonder if the Ordnance survey has any
information anywhere.



GH

Northern Line goes south
 

On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

I still have an old mercury thermometer, which has both F and C marked
on it. I've been using it for 40 years and I haven't died of mercury
poisoning yet.

You can't live in the last century forever.

I can have a damned good try. I refuse to be dictated to.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Northern Line goes south
 

On 11/09/2019 16:42, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:07, Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but
it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as
that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I
know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?

https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8


You can't live in the last century forever.
Will you tell the Americans or should I?


Never mind the Americans, someone tell Rees-Mogg.

Good on him, I say.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Northern Line goes south
 

In message , at 17:25:43 on Thu, 12
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:

You can't live in the last century forever.

I can have a damned good try. I refuse to be dictated to.

Not a shorthand typist by trade, then?
--
Roland Perry

Northern Line goes south
 

On 12/09/2019 17:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:25:43 on Thu, 12
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:

You can't live in the last century forever.

I can have a damned good try. I refuse to be dictated to.

Not a shorthand typist by trade, then?

No, but my mother was. I never managed to learn it, though.

--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Northern Line goes south
 

On 12/09/2019 17:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:25:43 on Thu, 12
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:

You can't live in the last century forever.

I can have a damned good try. I refuse to be dictated to.

Not a shorthand typist by trade, then?

Bang goes the coffee!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Northern Line goes south
 

On 12/09/2019 20:21, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 12/09/2019 17:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:25:43 on Thu, 12
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:

You can't live in the last century forever.

I can have a damned good try. I refuse to be dictated to.

Not a shorthand typist by trade, then?

Bang goes the coffee!

You can make your own..!


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Northern Line goes south
 

On 13/09/2019 00:52, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 12/09/2019 20:21, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 12/09/2019 17:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:25:43 on Thu, 12
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:

You can't live in the last century forever.

I can have a damned good try. I refuse to be dictated to.

Not a shorthand typist by trade, then?

Bang goes the coffee!

You can make your own..!



Ah, wrong interpretation! Hadn't thought of that one, good response. I
meant I was drinking coffee when I read the line and choked through
laughing.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Northern Line goes south
 

In article , MissRiaElaine
writes
I will resist metrication till my dying day.

Oh? What's the definition of an inch?

Answer: 25.4 mm.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Northern Line goes south
 

In article , writes
With the Underground gradually being reequipped with new signalling systems
and trains with in cab displays
are there going to be signals with LEDs to worry about in a few years.

Haven't those on five lines already gone? And, of course, the DLR never
had them.

And in typical TfL fashion the systems are all incompatible with each other.

That's not TfL's fault. That's because of the idiot privatisation
attempt - Metronet and Tube Lines chose different suppliers.

--
Clive D.W. Feather