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Old September 10th 19, 02:15 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:28:10 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:48:11 on
Tue, 10 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:

Most companies have policies, which even if they aren't "this model,
whatever colour they have in stock this week", can include parameters
such as insisting on 4+ doors (so customers can be taken out to lunch in
relative comfort), specific makes, and a non-negotiable ceiling price.


Those policies applied early in my career, but later, the rules that I
had to follow were much more flexible for senior staff.


Depends on the company. Some expect the senior staff to set an example
to the more junior ones, by adhering to a fairly strict policy.


True, but luckily it didn't happen with me. I knew one company where
the owner had an M3 as his company car, and used that as a reason to
stop anyone else from having anything more than the lesser 3 Series
models.


I even had an Alfa Romeo once

Sometimes it's possible to play the system, so with the constraint once
of "Any Astra this garage has in stock", I got away with a red GTE.


All my company cars were ordered for me, built to my spec.


That wouldn't have worked for my Astra, because I needed it by the end
of the week.


I sometimes had to wait months for my new BMWs to be built to my
exacting spec, but I had a perfectly good previous car in the mean
time.

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Old September 10th 19, 02:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 14:41:05 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
On 10/09/2019 14:26, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:15:31 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:

Distribution shouldn't be that
much of a problem, we already have a large fleet of petrol
tankers, they
would just need adapting.

*The tankers would need replacing, not adapting. Hydrogen needs new
high pressure tanks and all-new piping.

Fair enough. But it's possible.

To replace them, if cost was no object, yes.


And how much will it cost to rip up every street in the country to lay
new cables to handle the power required when *everybody* has an
electric car that needs charging..?


A fortune. And it's required if the penetration of electric cars exceeds
about 10% by 2030 (it will vary locally depending on what cabling
currently exists, how old it is etc etc).

Note that as a rule of thumb one car in a household will on average
double its overall electricity consumption. And it's no good suggesting
peak/offpeak because there's not much difference at the supply end these
days, and if all the houses use off-peak charging, that'll roughly
treble the load on *their* infrastructure, not merely double it.

Not to mention the extra generating plant. One estimate I saw somewhere
said that the UK would require the equivalent of 20 extra nuclear power
stations.


And a whole new set of substations.

ps I don't think hydrogen is the answer either!
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 10th 19, 02:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 14:48:57 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:
There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?


Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.


but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just decide
to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost


No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much bigger
than a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to premises. Unless the
premises supply is on overhead wires (typically rural areas), when
there's a whole other set of constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)


County Councils provide the street lighting.
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 10th 19, 02:31 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 14:37:33 on Tue,
10 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:


The Peugeot looks interesting, but Insurance Group 28 - is that a
misprint!


That does appear to be the case - the same for the Mitsubishi and Citroen
versions. I'm not sure why - even a Leaf is lower. It's possible insurance
quotes will take other things beyond group into account (eg actual incident
stats).

It's the kind of car which would need recharging every night, like an
early 3G phone. I wonder if the secondhand prices include the charger.


Probably not, but a charger fitted is GBP100-200 on the grant scheme.


Does that include the wiring from the distribution box to the garage?
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 10th 19, 02:34 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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MissRiaElaine wrote:


It's quite possible to generate hydrogen locally at the filling station,
there is at least one such installation in London that I'm aware of,
although I don't recall the exact location. Solar power is ideal; there
are numerous wind turbines in this area, when not required for the grid,
they could be used to generate hydrogen.


Distribution shouldn't be that
much of a problem, we already have a large fleet of petrol tankers, they
would just need adapting.

Those last few words must be understatement the week, existing liquid fuel
tankers are just compartmentalised tanks with a reasonable amount of
airtightness to stop fuel and vapour slopping out.
A Hydrogen tanker would have to be a pressure vessel and depending if the
requirement is to carry it in liquid or compressed gas form may need
cooling or be heavily insulated as well.

It would be like trying to convert a saucepan into a pressure cooker,so
much hassle it would be better to build new.

GH







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Old September 10th 19, 04:05 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Graeme Wall wrote:
On 10/09/2019 13:14, tim... wrote:


"Theo" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
I'd seriously consider something like an electric Kia Picanto, as long
as it wasn't significantly more expensive than a petrol one. Let's say
£12k.

A used ~2012 Nissan Leaf or Mitsubishi i-MIEV (Citreon C-Zero, Peugeot
Ion)
start at about £5K.

Obviously whether they're suitable for you will depend on your use case.
(in particular the range of 60-100 miles means they're not ideal for long
journeys)

There's also the Renault Zoe in that price bracket, although the battery
leasing makes them less attractive unless you do a lot of miles.


surely a 7 year old car's going to have knackered battery


One of the unknown quantities with electric cars, they've not really
been around long enough to establish a benchmark for battery life.


https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90-capacity-after-160000-miles-may-last-for-500000-miles/

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Old September 10th 19, 04:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
Does that include the wiring from the distribution box to the garage?


https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

‘Standard Installation’ means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but not be
limited, to the following:
a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;

(that particular instance is GBP299, only selected because it came up
recently on another newsgroup. Others are cheaper)

Theo
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Old September 10th 19, 04:14 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:48:57 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:
There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.


but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just decide
to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost


No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much bigger
than a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to premises. Unless the
premises supply is on overhead wires (typically rural areas), when
there's a whole other set of constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)


County Councils provide the street lighting.


The future for other than residential trickle charging top-ups is likely to
be fast chargers at filling stations. They will, of course, need a high
power grid connection, but that's simpler than rewiring the entire local
electricity supply grid, or setting up a whole hydrogen supply chain.

The new Taycan (and, no, Roland, it's not aimed at you) represents the
current state of the art:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/taycan/charging-18558.html

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Old September 10th 19, 06:51 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 17:12:04 on Tue,
10 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
Does that include the wiring from the distribution box to the garage?


https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

‘Standard Installation’ means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but not be
limited, to the following:
a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;

(that particular instance is GBP299, only selected because it came up
recently on another newsgroup. Others are cheaper)


No good for about half the houses-with-garages I've owned over the
years, then. Only works for an integral garage, not most detached ones.
Not that I've ever used an integral garage to store a car in (rather
than using it as a lockup).
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 10th 19, 07:16 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:12:04 on Tue,
10 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
Does that include the wiring from the distribution box to the garage?


https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

‘Standard Installation’ means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but not be
limited, to the following:
a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;

(that particular instance is GBP299, only selected because it came up
recently on another newsgroup. Others are cheaper)


No good for about half the houses-with-garages I've owned over the
years, then. Only works for an integral garage, not most detached ones.
Not that I've ever used an integral garage to store a car in (rather
than using it as a lockup).


And I think you're typical of most garage owners. In any case, many modern
cars are simply too wide to fit comfortably in a traditional British
garage.

But, of course, if you have an integral garage, you probably have space to
park a BEV and somewhere to mount a charger box.



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