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Old September 11th 19, 11:31 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Trolleybus" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:26:48 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



"David Walters" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 11:16:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town
of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front
gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban areas
for
which BEVs are best suited.

In England in 2010 40% of dwellings had use of a garage and 26% had
other off street parking[1]. I am assuming that those with garages have
a car sized bit of drive in front on which they can park their car even
if they don't put it in the car. I'm sure there are exceptions but we
can loose a lot before we drop 16%.


As a habitual flat dweller (12% of the housing stock), I can tell you that
every time I have had a flat with a garage (which I confess is a bit short
of 50%) It has always been of the "block round the back" type with no
alternative off street parking

Examples of towns with a population of 40,000, as cited by David
Cantrell,
include Bishop's Stortford[2]. A very unscientific look at the aerial
images of the town suggests to me that more than half the homes have
off street parking.

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

[1]
https://assets.publishing.service.go...48/2173483.pdf

[2] Closest to 40k in
https://www.thegeographist.com/uk-ci...pulation-1000/


who'd have thought that the silly litter town that was my previous place
of
abode, with no Aldi or Lidl, would make it almost into the top 500.

If you're talking about Bishop's Stortford


nope

that was the PPs selection

My "village" was further down the list

tim




  #112   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 11:41 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 12:06:22 on Wed,
11 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:38:07 on Wed,
11 Sep 2019, Theo remarked:
https://goo.gl/maps/ZVkwF8yevgVPVWwx5

Those garages aren't fit for purpose, because you couldn't fit a modern car
in them, and presumably the owners don't get anywhere else to put one.
They're essentially covered bike-and-junk shelters.


But we are where we are. And while those garages will be counted in the
stats being bandied about "40% have garages", I tend to agree they don't
in practice facilitate the charging of electric vehicles at all.


Those houses have no parking facility, for almost any kind of modern car.
The owners have to resort to parking their car on street, just like those in
Victoria terraces do. Their position is actually worse than a
Victorian-terrace-resident, since streets of terraces often have space for
much on-street parking.


This isn't a new phenomenon, Cambourne (which you can only realistically
access by car) restricted on-premises parking which simply resulted in
cares parked in silly places on the streets.

This is nothing to do with electric cars as such - these houses are not
designed for cars at all (even if they claim otherwise).


The claim we need to be interested in is that 40% of houses have
garages, and are therefore suitable for hosting chargers and electric
cars. The 40% figure ignores the fact that $foo% of those "garages" are
entirely unsuitable for that task.

Other developments at least admit that cars are parked outside these days:
https://goo.gl/maps/bpbaVTgDTCAJKpNA6
and charging here would be fine.


You wouldn't get much more than a Smart Car there, without obstructing
the pavement.


I think the Streetview car's lens is foreshortening the space, but you're
right it looks about 3-3.5m - supermini kind of size.


If you look at the boundary wall it's about 40 bricks on their side,
which is 13ft. That would make the paving slabs of which there are 6.5,
2ft each. A standard size. So 4.1m, which is enough for a Fiesta but not
a Focus. A Nissan Leaf is 4.5m

(although I don't know if there's a covenant about putting extra stuff on
the front of your house)


I've only seen covenants about satellite dishes, but if people invent
suitably ugly charging points, developers might catch on and start
banning them too.


More of the 'you can't stick anything on the front of your house and the
door has to be grey' kind of covenants.


I've seen door colour restrictions in conservation areas, but nothing as
generic as "anything on front".
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 11th 19, 12:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 04:14:34PM -0000, Recliner wrote:

The future for other than residential trickle charging top-ups is likely to
be fast chargers at filling stations. They will, of course, need a high
power grid connection, but that's simpler than rewiring the entire local
electricity supply grid, or setting up a whole hydrogen supply chain.

The new Taycan (and, no, Roland, it's not aimed at you) represents the
current state of the art:
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/taycan/charging-18558.html


22 minutes is *way* too slow for filling stations. But it's getting
there. We need less than an order of magnitude improvement.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

Arbeit macht Alkoholiker
  #114   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 12:51 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 12:22:29 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.

but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just
decide to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost


No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much bigger
than a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to premises. Unless
the premises supply is on overhead wires (typically rural areas),
when there's a whole other set of constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)


County Councils provide the street lighting.


not where I live they don't :-)


Unitary Authority?

--
Roland Perry
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Old September 11th 19, 01:11 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 11/09/2019 13:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:22:29 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.

but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just
decide to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost

No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much bigger
thanÂ* a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to premises. Unless
the premisesÂ* supply is on overhead wires (typically rural areas),
when there's a wholeÂ* other set of constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)

County Councils provide the street lighting.


not where I live they don't :-)


Unitary Authority?


or London Borough, City of London or Westminster, TfL, Highways England, ...

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


  #116   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 01:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at
14:11:32 on Wed, 11 Sep 2019, Robin remarked:
On 11/09/2019 13:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:22:29 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car,
they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.

but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just
decide to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost

No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much
bigger than* a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to premises.
Unless the premises* supply is on overhead wires (typically rural
areas), when there's a whole* other set of constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)

County Councils provide the street lighting.

not where I live they don't :-)


Unitary Authority?


or London Borough, City of London or Westminster,


If those are equivalent in the distribution of civic responsibilities to
a unitary authority, then they come into the same basket.

TfL, Highways England, ...


Not sure what housing estates either of those will be lighting.
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 11th 19, 01:46 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 11/09/2019 14:29, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
14:11:32 on Wed, 11 Sep 2019, Robin remarked:
On 11/09/2019 13:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:22:29 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car,
they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population
could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.

but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just
decide to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost

No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much
biggerÂ* thanÂ* a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to
premises. UnlessÂ* the premisesÂ* supply is on overhead wires
(typically rural areas),Â* when there's a wholeÂ* other set of
constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)

County Councils provide the street lighting.

not where I live they don't :-)

Â*Unitary Authority?


or London Borough, City of London or Westminster,


If those are equivalent in the distribution of civic responsibilities to
a unitary authority, then they come into the same basket.

TfL, Highways England, ...


Not sure what housing estates either of those will be lighting.


Ribbon developments?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old September 11th 19, 03:09 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Electric Shapps

On 11/09/2019 14:29, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
14:11:32 on Wed, 11 Sep 2019, Robin remarked:
On 11/09/2019 13:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:22:29 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car,
they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population
could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.

but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just
decide to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost

No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much
biggerÂ* thanÂ* a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to
premises. UnlessÂ* the premisesÂ* supply is on overhead wires
(typically rural areas),Â* when there's a wholeÂ* other set of
constraints in the overall amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)

County Councils provide the street lighting.

not where I live they don't :-)

Â*Unitary Authority?


or London Borough, City of London or Westminster,


If those are equivalent in the distribution of civic responsibilities to
a unitary authority, then they come into the same basket.


I forgot the law that when Roland Perry uses a word it means just what
he chooses it to mean — neither more nor less

GLA? Pah! Fake news!!



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #119   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 03:47 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at
16:09:51 on Wed, 11 Sep 2019, Robin remarked:
County Councils provide the street lighting.

not where I live they don't :-)

Â*Unitary Authority?

or London Borough, City of London or Westminster,


If those are equivalent in the distribution of civic
responsibilities to a unitary authority, then they come into the same
basket.


I forgot the law that when Roland Perry uses a word it means just what
he chooses it to mean — neither more nor less

GLA? Pah! Fake news!!


Odd how you complain when I agree with you (I assume you *are* saying
that London Boroughs and City of London/Westminster are the highways
authorities in their bits of the world).
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 11th 19, 04:16 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:11:32
on Wed, 11 Sep 2019, Robin remarked:
On 11/09/2019 13:51, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:22:29 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car,
they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population
could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..?

Something else. There doesn't need to be one solution for everyone.

but the solution isn't in the hands of individual - I can't just
decide to have a charge point connected to the local street lamppost

No-one can because the street lights are on circuits not much bigger
than a 13A ring main, Separate from the supply to premises. Unless
the premises supply is on overhead wires (typically rural areas),
when there's a whole other set of constraints in the overall
amperage.

HMG has to facilitate it (even if they don't directly provide it)

County Councils provide the street lighting.

not where I live they don't :-)

Unitary Authority?


or London Borough, City of London or Westminster,


If those are equivalent in the distribution of civic responsibilities to a
unitary authority, then they come into the same basket.


weird isn't it

London Boroughs are technically different to Unitaries but actually
identical

I suppose more things have been given to the Mayor to look after, but I
don't think that was the case when they were first set up







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