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Old September 10th 19, 09:32 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Recliner" wrote in message
...
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 11:16:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town
of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front
gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban areas
for
which BEVs are best suited.


In England in 2010 40% of dwellings had use of a garage and 26% had
other off street parking[1]. I am assuming that those with garages have
a car sized bit of drive in front on which they can park their car even
if they don't put it in the car. I'm sure there are exceptions but we
can loose a lot before we drop 16%.

Examples of towns with a population of 40,000, as cited by David
Cantrell,
include Bishop's Stortford[2]. A very unscientific look at the aerial
images of the town suggests to me that more than half the homes have
off street parking.

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

[1]
https://assets.publishing.service.go...48/2173483.pdf


[2] Closest to 40k in
https://www.thegeographist.com/uk-ci...pulation-1000/


BEVs are most commonly used in urban areas, where their lack of emissions
is a clear benefit, and their short range less of a problem. So I wonder
what proportion of inner city homes have private, off-street parking where
a charger could be installed? I'd guess that it's quite a small number.
It's obviously better in the suburbs, but I'd still espect a relatively
small number in London.


Problem of charging aside, the problem with this MO as a way of increasing
ownership of electric cars is that most families will have the city
"run-around" as a second car.

not many families can afford 30 grand for a second car

tim




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Old September 10th 19, 09:42 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 11:16:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town
of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front
gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban areas
for
which BEVs are best suited.

In England in 2010 40% of dwellings had use of a garage and 26% had
other off street parking[1]. I am assuming that those with garages have
a car sized bit of drive in front on which they can park their car even
if they don't put it in the car. I'm sure there are exceptions but we
can loose a lot before we drop 16%.

Examples of towns with a population of 40,000, as cited by David
Cantrell,
include Bishop's Stortford[2]. A very unscientific look at the aerial
images of the town suggests to me that more than half the homes have
off street parking.

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

[1]
https://assets.publishing.service.go...48/2173483.pdf


[2] Closest to 40k in
https://www.thegeographist.com/uk-ci...pulation-1000/


BEVs are most commonly used in urban areas, where their lack of emissions
is a clear benefit, and their short range less of a problem. So I wonder
what proportion of inner city homes have private, off-street parking where
a charger could be installed? I'd guess that it's quite a small number.
It's obviously better in the suburbs, but I'd still espect a relatively
small number in London.


Problem of charging aside, the problem with this MO as a way of increasing
ownership of electric cars is that most families will have the city
"run-around" as a second car.


True, or even the third car.


not many families can afford 30 grand for a second car


It's cheaper than the SUV they probably already have as the second car.

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Old September 10th 19, 09:46 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Electric Shapps

On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 11:16:41AM -0000, Recliner wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.

That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats?


The national average is "about half".

Even so, it means that electric vehicles not only aren't suitable for
about half the people who live there, they're also unsuitable for people
who *do* have their own drive but who have to visit people and places
that don't have a private drive.

My sister, for example, has private off road parking. But my parents
don't, and I don't, never mind any other relations and other people who
she might visit. That means that an electric vehicle would be a pain in
the arse for her even though she could have a private charger at home.

That's not typical of the urban areas for which BEVs are best suited.


What's a "BEV"? All these weird abbreviations confuse me.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

Blessed are the pessimists, for they test their backups
  #54   Report Post  
Old September 10th 19, 09:54 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Electric Shapps

David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 11:16:41AM -0000, Recliner wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in.
Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.

That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats?


The national average is "about half".

Even so, it means that electric vehicles not only aren't suitable for
about half the people who live there, they're also unsuitable for people
who *do* have their own drive but who have to visit people and places
that don't have a private drive.

My sister, for example, has private off road parking. But my parents
don't, and I don't, never mind any other relations and other people who
she might visit. That means that an electric vehicle would be a pain in
the arse for her even though she could have a private charger at home.

That's not typical of the urban areas for which BEVs are best suited.


What's a "BEV"? All these weird abbreviations confuse me.


It's the normal abbreviation for a Battery Electric Vehicle, as opposed to
a PHEV.

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Old September 10th 19, 09:54 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Electric Shapps

On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 10:40:06PM +0100, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 09/09/2019 14:58, David Walters wrote:
There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

So what do the other half do..? We live in a flat with only on-street
parking available. To rip up the streets to install kerbside charging
points would not be cost effective - the existing cabling would not
stand the load on the system of everyone in the street with a car all
coming home from work at 6pm and plugging in.


The existing electrical distribution system (it's more than just the
cables) wouldn't stand up to a street full of chargers on private land
either.

I've said it before, the way forward is hydrogen. It takes no longer to
fill up than a petrol car and although it may not be as economical, it
would be far easier to install pumps at existing petrol stations than
charging points everywhere.


Hydrogen is an absolute bugger to store and transport and has some
rather serious safety issues. It also has a lot lower lower energy
density than petrol or diesel.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Erudite is when you make a classical allusion to a
feather. Kinky is when you use the whole chicken.


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Old September 10th 19, 10:02 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 10:32:04 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

BEVs are most commonly used in urban areas, where their lack of emissions
is a clear benefit, and their short range less of a problem. So I wonder
what proportion of inner city homes have private, off-street parking where
a charger could be installed? I'd guess that it's quite a small number.
It's obviously better in the suburbs, but I'd still espect a relatively
small number in London.


Problem of charging aside, the problem with this MO as a way of
increasing ownership of electric cars is that most families will have
the city "run-around" as a second car.

not many families can afford 30 grand for a second car


I went to a "Motor Show" (at ExCel) perhaps ten years ago when electric
cars were first 'a thing', and the vast majority were concept cars about
the size of an original mini.

I'd seriously consider something like an electric Kia Picanto, as long
as it wasn't significantly more expensive than a petrol one. Let's say
12k.
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 10th 19, 10:04 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Electric Shapps

In message , at 09:42:03 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:

not many families can afford 30 grand for a second car


It's cheaper than the SUV they probably already have as the second car.


I've got a 10k SUV as my first car. Not everyone buys new.
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 10th 19, 10:17 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:32:04 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

BEVs are most commonly used in urban areas, where their lack of emissions
is a clear benefit, and their short range less of a problem. So I wonder
what proportion of inner city homes have private, off-street parking where
a charger could be installed? I'd guess that it's quite a small number.
It's obviously better in the suburbs, but I'd still espect a relatively
small number in London.


Problem of charging aside, the problem with this MO as a way of
increasing ownership of electric cars is that most families will have
the city "run-around" as a second car.

not many families can afford 30 grand for a second car


I went to a "Motor Show" (at ExCel) perhaps ten years ago when electric
cars were first 'a thing', and the vast majority were concept cars about
the size of an original mini.

I'd seriously consider something like an electric Kia Picanto, as long
as it wasn't significantly more expensive than a petrol one. Let's say
£12k.


Tesla can be credited for the smart idea that, as BEVs are inherently
expensive to build, they might as well be premium (big, fast and luxurious)
as well. So the Model S competes with the likes of the S-Class Mercedes,
BMW 7 Series and Lexus LX. And in the US at least that strategy has worked.
Conversely, cheap little BEVs have all flopped.

Thanks to cheaper batteries, entry level BEVs are now more affordable, with
a decent range, and Kia does an excellent, very popular one. However, not
only can you not afford it, but it's also sold out a long way ahead anyway.

https://www.whatcar.com/kia/e-niro/estate/review/n18388

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Old September 10th 19, 10:20 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:42:03 on Tue, 10 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:

not many families can afford 30 grand for a second car


It's cheaper than the SUV they probably already have as the second car.


I've got a £10k SUV as my first car. Not everyone buys new.


Plenty can afford it, and do, particularly on PCP. Or they buy nearly new.

Apart from my very first car, I've always had brand new cars, whether as
company vehicles or personal purchases.

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Old September 10th 19, 10:46 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 11:16:41 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:
David Walters wrote:
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to
convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the
town
of
40,000 that my parents live in.

Around half the people in that town have private drives so can
install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


That sounds like quite a high proportion. Presumably it's a leafy
small
town with most houses detached or semi-detached with large front
gardens,
and few terrace houses or flats? That's not typical of the urban
areas
for
which BEVs are best suited.

In England in 2010 40% of dwellings had use of a garage and 26% had
other off street parking[1]. I am assuming that those with garages have
a car sized bit of drive in front on which they can park their car even
if they don't put it in the car. I'm sure there are exceptions but we
can loose a lot before we drop 16%.

Examples of towns with a population of 40,000, as cited by David
Cantrell,
include Bishop's Stortford[2]. A very unscientific look at the aerial
images of the town suggests to me that more than half the homes have
off street parking.

There are lots of people who can't easily have an electric car, they
include my parents who live in a street of Victorian terraces with
narrow pavement. However I think more than half the population could
charge at home.

[1]
https://assets.publishing.service.go...48/2173483.pdf


[2] Closest to 40k in
https://www.thegeographist.com/uk-ci...pulation-1000/


BEVs are most commonly used in urban areas, where their lack of
emissions
is a clear benefit, and their short range less of a problem. So I
wonder
what proportion of inner city homes have private, off-street parking
where
a charger could be installed? I'd guess that it's quite a small number.
It's obviously better in the suburbs, but I'd still espect a relatively
small number in London.


Problem of charging aside, the problem with this MO as a way of
increasing
ownership of electric cars is that most families will have the city
"run-around" as a second car.


True, or even the third car.


not many families can afford 30 grand for a second car


It's cheaper than the SUV they probably already have as the second car.


We need some figures for that

An SUV could very easily be the first car in many families

Just because it's being used for the homemaker to take kids to school,
doesn't mean it's the family's second car, especially in the central zones
where the wage earner can easily walk to the tube to get to work.

tim







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