"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 20:50:20 on Fri, 13 Sep 2019,
Basil Jet remarked:
My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of
them,
indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what
process
they used to produce them?

The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on
holiday in a new area.

Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet
of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to
print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as
well.

I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments,
assembled by hand.

Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now.

Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow
at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any
confusing sections.

https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route
https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...eline#aaroutes

Thanks, the pertinent bit is lower down at
https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...e#routesgrowth

The maps were called "Throughroutes", and there were about 50 of them.

Where were the ones starting in London originated from?



I have an ancient AA Road Book ("second post-war edition") with maps and
desriptions of these routes. For anywhere outside the London area "London"
is always Hyde Park Corner. However, the descriptions include routes from
Kew Bridge, London Bridge, Blackwall Tunnel and Woolwich Ferry. There is
also a table of distances in the back, which are all from Charing Cross.

--
DAS

In message , at 10:16:13 on Sat, 14 Sep
2019, D A Stocks remarked:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 20:50:20 on Fri, 13 Sep
2019, Basil Jet remarked:
My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of
them,
indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what
process
they used to produce them?

The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on
holiday in a new area.

Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a
booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could
be told to print out in its early days. They had written
directions on them as well.

I think they were produced by using a standard set of route
segments, assembled by hand.

Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now.

Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to
follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map
of any confusing sections.

https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route
https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...eline#aaroutes

Thanks, the pertinent bit is lower down at
https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...e#routesgrowth

The maps were called "Throughroutes", and there were about 50 of them.

Where were the ones starting in London originated from?

I have an ancient AA Road Book ("second post-war edition") with maps
and desriptions of these routes. For anywhere outside the London area
"London" is always Hyde Park Corner. However, the descriptions include
routes from Kew Bridge, London Bridge, Blackwall Tunnel and Woolwich
Ferry. There is also a table of distances in the back, which are all
from Charing Cross.

Thanks for that. Sounds like it was produced in the transitional phase
where the various peripheral gateways were being consolidated onto
Trafalgar Square.

(I presume they didn't mean Charing Cross Station, or the replica Cross
in its forecourt).
--
Roland Perry

On 14/09/2019 12:45, Roland Perry wrote:

(I presume they didn't mean Charing Cross Station, or the replica Cross
in its forecourt).

The official centre of London, from which all mileages are supposedly
measured has been the statue of Charles I in Trafalgar Square for quite
a while now. Presumably, for the pedantic, from the top of his head or
where his body meets the saddle. (Phew! I managed to avoid saying a rude
word. :-) )

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message , at 15:49:30 on Sat, 14
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked:
On 14/09/2019 12:45, Roland Perry wrote:

(I presume they didn't mean Charing Cross Station, or the replica Cross
in its forecourt).

The official centre of London, from which all mileages are supposedly
measured has been the statue of Charles I in Trafalgar Square for quite
a while now. Presumably, for the pedantic, from the top of his head or
where his body meets the saddle. (Phew! I managed to avoid saying a
rude word. :-) )

That's precisely what we are discussing, but in the absence of any
evidence of who/what made it official (and when).
--
Roland Perry

On 14/09/2019 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
That's precisely what we are discussing, but in the absence of any
evidence of who/what made it official (and when).

This is the best explanation I've seen.:-

"The custom of considering the location of the old Charing Cross to be
the arbitrary centre of London seems to have arisen in the late 18th or
early 19th century. Laws and rules were often written from that period
specifying that everything within a certain distance of Charing Cross
was to be considered part of London. In 1864 the new Charing Cross
railway station opened on the Strand, just adjacent to the new Trafalgar
Square, and the South Eastern Railway commissioned a new Cross to stand
in the station forecourt - a few hundred yards from the site of the
medieval original. London’s black-cab taxi drivers treat this new Cross
as the centre of the city: their famously rigorous “Knowledge” training
requires them to commit to memory every street and point of interest
within six miles of the station forecourt."

The original Charing Cross was on the site of the current statue of
Charles I, but the cross in the station forecourt dates from the 1860s,
so the cabbie's idea of the central point is from 1864 at the earliest,
when the station opened to traffic. The official centre is apparently
the plaque marking the site of the original Charing Cross, not the
statue.I was mistaken earlier.


I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and
practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall, and distances
from the centre of Government needed to be specified for various
reasons. One example of this in the 1970s was when I worked for BR in
Watford, and the "London allowance" which would have increased my salary
by about 10% was only available as far out as the South side of the road
our office block occupied the North side of.

The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon
Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was
traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the
middle ages.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 14/09/2019 17:42, John Williamson wrote:

The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon
Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was
traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the
middle ages.

In the middle? Do you mean with vehicles passing both side of it?

It's now in a little cage at one side of Cannon Street.
https://goo.gl/maps/s6zetFj72tU8ZN37A


--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Cardigans - 2003 - Long Gone Before Daylight

On 14/09/2019 18:26, Basil Jet wrote:
On 14/09/2019 17:42, John Williamson wrote:

The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon
Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was
traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the
middle ages.

In the middle? Do you mean with vehicles passing both side of it?

Pretty much, yes, and it even had to have a protective cover put over it
as traffic increased and it started getting hit by cart wheels. the
damage is still visible today.

From Wikilies:- "This is a fragment of the original piece of limestone
once securely fixed in the ground now fronting Cannon Street Station.

Removed in 1742 to the north side of the street, in 1798 it was built
into the south wall of the Church of St. Swithun London Stone which
stood here until demolished in 1962.

Its origin and purpose are unknown but in 1188 there was a reference to
Henry, son of Eylwin de Lundenstane, subsequently Lord Mayor of London."

It's now in a little cage at one side of Cannon Street.
https://goo.gl/maps/s6zetFj72tU8ZN37A

During the renovations at that site, it is on temporary display in the
Museum Of London.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

In message , at 17:42:01 on Sat, 14
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked:
On 14/09/2019 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
That's precisely what we are discussing, but in the absence of any
evidence of who/what made it official (and when).

This is the best explanation I've seen.:-

"The custom of considering the location of the old Charing Cross to be
the arbitrary centre of London seems to have arisen in the late 18th or
early 19th century. Laws and rules were often written from that period
specifying that everything within a certain distance of Charing Cross
was to be considered part of London. In 1864 the new Charing Cross
railway station opened on the Strand, just adjacent to the new
Trafalgar Square, and the South Eastern Railway commissioned a new
Cross to stand in the station forecourt - a few hundred yards from the
site of the medieval original. London’s black-cab taxi drivers treat
this new Cross as the centre of the city: their famously rigorous
“Knowledge� training requires them to commit to memory every street
and point of interest within six miles of the station forecourt."

The original Charing Cross was on the site of the current statue of
Charles I, but the cross in the station forecourt dates from the 1860s,
so the cabbie's idea of the central point is from 1864 at the earliest,
when the station opened to traffic. The official centre is apparently
the plaque marking the site of the original Charing Cross, not the
statue.I was mistaken earlier.

I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and
practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall,

Moved from where?

and distances from the centre of Government needed to be specified for
various reasons. One example of this in the 1970s was when I worked for
BR in Watford, and the "London allowance" which would have increased my
salary by about 10% was only available as far out as the South side of
the road our office block occupied the North side of.

The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon
Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was
traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the
middle ages.

Most of what you say has already been explored earlier in the thread.
The "London Allowance" however is a surprise, and I'd have expected it
to be based on boroughs, some of whose boundaries are indeed down the
middle of streets. Chorleywood, not far from Watford, being one example.
--
Roland Perry

On 14/09/2019 19:48, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:42:01 on Sat, 14
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked:
I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and
practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall,

Moved from where?

There was a process of centralisation over that period of the Civil
service for things like tax collection. Charles's statue just marked the
end of Whitehall, as Trafalgar Square didn't exist.

Most of what you say has already been explored earlier in the thread.
The "London Allowance" however is a surprise, and I'd have expected it
to be based on boroughs, some of whose boundaries are indeed down the
middle of streets. Chorleywood, not far from Watford, being one example.

In this case, it was actually based on the distance from the region's
headquarters, which was Euston Station, (15 miles was the limit, and we
were a street's width outside. The office location had been chosen on
that basis, according to the more cynical of us.) presumably measured
from the buffers.

The Union had "had words", but we were stuck with it. Rules is rules, innit?
--
Tciao for Now!

John.