Distances from London
The AA used to produce a set of paper maps which were mostly black and white but had red lines indicating the best driving route from the city named on the front to every major town in Britain. Does anyone know what they were called, because I can't find anything abut them on the web. I'd like to know for how many different cities were these maps produced. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Gang Of Four - 2019 - Happy Now |
Distances from London
In message , at 16:23:37 on Thu, 12 Sep
2019, Basil Jet remarked: The AA used to produce a set of paper maps which were mostly black and white but had red lines indicating the best driving route from the city named on the front to every major town in Britain. Does anyone know what they were called, because I can't find anything abut them on the web. I'd like to know for how many different cities were these maps produced. My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
On 12/09/2019 17:29, Roland Perry wrote:
My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on holiday in a new area. Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as well. I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments, assembled by hand. Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Distances from London
On 12/09/2019 19:07, John Williamson wrote:
On 12/09/2019 17:29, Roland Perry wrote: My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on holiday in a new area. Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as well. I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments, assembled by hand. Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...eline#aaroutes PA |
Distances from London
On 13/09/2019 18:47, Peter Able wrote:
On 12/09/2019 19:07, John Williamson wrote: On 12/09/2019 17:29, Roland Perry wrote: My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on holiday in a new area. Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as well. I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments, assembled by hand. Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...eline#aaroutes Thanks, the pertinent bit is lower down at https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...e#routesgrowth The maps were called "Throughroutes", and there were about 50 of them. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Sleater-Kinney - 2000 - All Hands On The Bad One |
Distances from London
In message , at 20:50:20 on Fri, 13 Sep
2019, Basil Jet remarked: My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on holiday in a new area. Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as well. I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments, assembled by hand. Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...eline#aaroutes Thanks, the pertinent bit is lower down at https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...e#routesgrowth The maps were called "Throughroutes", and there were about 50 of them. Where were the ones starting in London originated from? -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
... In message , at 20:50:20 on Fri, 13 Sep 2019, Basil Jet remarked: My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on holiday in a new area. Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as well. I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments, assembled by hand. Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...eline#aaroutes Thanks, the pertinent bit is lower down at https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...e#routesgrowth The maps were called "Throughroutes", and there were about 50 of them. Where were the ones starting in London originated from? I have an ancient AA Road Book ("second post-war edition") with maps and desriptions of these routes. For anywhere outside the London area "London" is always Hyde Park Corner. However, the descriptions include routes from Kew Bridge, London Bridge, Blackwall Tunnel and Woolwich Ferry. There is also a table of distances in the back, which are all from Charing Cross. -- DAS |
Distances from London
In message , at 10:16:13 on Sat, 14 Sep
2019, D A Stocks remarked: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 20:50:20 on Fri, 13 Sep 2019, Basil Jet remarked: My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on holiday in a new area. Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as well. I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments, assembled by hand. Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. https://www.theaa.com/route-planner/route https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...eline#aaroutes Thanks, the pertinent bit is lower down at https://www.theaa.com/about-us/aa-hi...e#routesgrowth The maps were called "Throughroutes", and there were about 50 of them. Where were the ones starting in London originated from? I have an ancient AA Road Book ("second post-war edition") with maps and desriptions of these routes. For anywhere outside the London area "London" is always Hyde Park Corner. However, the descriptions include routes from Kew Bridge, London Bridge, Blackwall Tunnel and Woolwich Ferry. There is also a table of distances in the back, which are all from Charing Cross. Thanks for that. Sounds like it was produced in the transitional phase where the various peripheral gateways were being consolidated onto Trafalgar Square. (I presume they didn't mean Charing Cross Station, or the replica Cross in its forecourt). -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
On 14/09/2019 12:45, Roland Perry wrote:
(I presume they didn't mean Charing Cross Station, or the replica Cross in its forecourt). The official centre of London, from which all mileages are supposedly measured has been the statue of Charles I in Trafalgar Square for quite a while now. Presumably, for the pedantic, from the top of his head or where his body meets the saddle. (Phew! I managed to avoid saying a rude word. :-) ) -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Distances from London
In message , at 15:49:30 on Sat, 14
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: On 14/09/2019 12:45, Roland Perry wrote: (I presume they didn't mean Charing Cross Station, or the replica Cross in its forecourt). The official centre of London, from which all mileages are supposedly measured has been the statue of Charles I in Trafalgar Square for quite a while now. Presumably, for the pedantic, from the top of his head or where his body meets the saddle. (Phew! I managed to avoid saying a rude word. :-) ) That's precisely what we are discussing, but in the absence of any evidence of who/what made it official (and when). -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
On 14/09/2019 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
That's precisely what we are discussing, but in the absence of any evidence of who/what made it official (and when). This is the best explanation I've seen.:- "The custom of considering the location of the old Charing Cross to be the arbitrary centre of London seems to have arisen in the late 18th or early 19th century. Laws and rules were often written from that period specifying that everything within a certain distance of Charing Cross was to be considered part of London. In 1864 the new Charing Cross railway station opened on the Strand, just adjacent to the new Trafalgar Square, and the South Eastern Railway commissioned a new Cross to stand in the station forecourt - a few hundred yards from the site of the medieval original. London’s black-cab taxi drivers treat this new Cross as the centre of the city: their famously rigorous “Knowledge” training requires them to commit to memory every street and point of interest within six miles of the station forecourt." The original Charing Cross was on the site of the current statue of Charles I, but the cross in the station forecourt dates from the 1860s, so the cabbie's idea of the central point is from 1864 at the earliest, when the station opened to traffic. The official centre is apparently the plaque marking the site of the original Charing Cross, not the statue.I was mistaken earlier. I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall, and distances from the centre of Government needed to be specified for various reasons. One example of this in the 1970s was when I worked for BR in Watford, and the "London allowance" which would have increased my salary by about 10% was only available as far out as the South side of the road our office block occupied the North side of. The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the middle ages. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Distances from London
On 14/09/2019 17:42, John Williamson wrote:
The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the middle ages. In the middle? Do you mean with vehicles passing both side of it? It's now in a little cage at one side of Cannon Street. https://goo.gl/maps/s6zetFj72tU8ZN37A -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to The Cardigans - 2003 - Long Gone Before Daylight |
Distances from London
On 14/09/2019 18:26, Basil Jet wrote:
On 14/09/2019 17:42, John Williamson wrote: The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the middle ages. In the middle? Do you mean with vehicles passing both side of it? Pretty much, yes, and it even had to have a protective cover put over it as traffic increased and it started getting hit by cart wheels. the damage is still visible today. From Wikilies:- "This is a fragment of the original piece of limestone once securely fixed in the ground now fronting Cannon Street Station. Removed in 1742 to the north side of the street, in 1798 it was built into the south wall of the Church of St. Swithun London Stone which stood here until demolished in 1962. Its origin and purpose are unknown but in 1188 there was a reference to Henry, son of Eylwin de Lundenstane, subsequently Lord Mayor of London." It's now in a little cage at one side of Cannon Street. https://goo.gl/maps/s6zetFj72tU8ZN37A During the renovations at that site, it is on temporary display in the Museum Of London. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Distances from London
In message , at 17:42:01 on Sat, 14
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: On 14/09/2019 16:38, Roland Perry wrote: That's precisely what we are discussing, but in the absence of any evidence of who/what made it official (and when). This is the best explanation I've seen.:- "The custom of considering the location of the old Charing Cross to be the arbitrary centre of London seems to have arisen in the late 18th or early 19th century. Laws and rules were often written from that period specifying that everything within a certain distance of Charing Cross was to be considered part of London. In 1864 the new Charing Cross railway station opened on the Strand, just adjacent to the new Trafalgar Square, and the South Eastern Railway commissioned a new Cross to stand in the station forecourt - a few hundred yards from the site of the medieval original. London’s black-cab taxi drivers treat this new Cross as the centre of the city: their famously rigorous “Knowledge” training requires them to commit to memory every street and point of interest within six miles of the station forecourt." The original Charing Cross was on the site of the current statue of Charles I, but the cross in the station forecourt dates from the 1860s, so the cabbie's idea of the central point is from 1864 at the earliest, when the station opened to traffic. The official centre is apparently the plaque marking the site of the original Charing Cross, not the statue.I was mistaken earlier. I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall, Moved from where? and distances from the centre of Government needed to be specified for various reasons. One example of this in the 1970s was when I worked for BR in Watford, and the "London allowance" which would have increased my salary by about 10% was only available as far out as the South side of the road our office block occupied the North side of. The London Stone, originally sited in the middle of what is now Cannon Street, has also been considered to be the "centre of London", and was traditionally a place to seal a binding bargain up until at least the middle ages. Most of what you say has already been explored earlier in the thread. The "London Allowance" however is a surprise, and I'd have expected it to be based on boroughs, some of whose boundaries are indeed down the middle of streets. Chorleywood, not far from Watford, being one example. -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
On 14/09/2019 19:48, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:42:01 on Sat, 14 Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall, Moved from where? There was a process of centralisation over that period of the Civil service for things like tax collection. Charles's statue just marked the end of Whitehall, as Trafalgar Square didn't exist. Most of what you say has already been explored earlier in the thread. The "London Allowance" however is a surprise, and I'd have expected it to be based on boroughs, some of whose boundaries are indeed down the middle of streets. Chorleywood, not far from Watford, being one example. In this case, it was actually based on the distance from the region's headquarters, which was Euston Station, (15 miles was the limit, and we were a street's width outside. The office location had been chosen on that basis, according to the more cynical of us.) presumably measured from the buffers. The Union had "had words", but we were stuck with it. Rules is rules, innit? -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Distances from London
On 14/09/2019 20:28, John Williamson wrote:
On 14/09/2019 19:48, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:42:01 on Sat, 14 Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall, Moved from where? There was a process of centralisation over that period of the Civil service for things like tax collection. Charles's statue just marked the end of Whitehall, as Trafalgar Square didn't exist. Another example is that the Met Police area was defined in statute by reference to the distance in a straight line from Charing Cross in the 1839 Act. Charing Cross was not defined. Most of what you say has already been explored earlier in the thread. The "London Allowance" however is a surprise, and I'd have expected it to be based on boroughs, some of whose boundaries are indeed down the middle of streets. Chorleywood, not far from Watford, being one example. In this case, it was actually based on the distance from the region's headquarters, which was Euston Station, (15 miles was the limit, and we were a street's width outside. The office location had been chosen on that basis, according to the more cynical of us.) presumably measured from the buffers. Pay board in the 60s/70s defined Inner London by ref to miles from ChX, Outer London by civic boundaries. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Distances from London
In message , at 20:28:49 on Sat, 14
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: On 14/09/2019 19:48, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:42:01 on Sat, 14 Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall, Moved from where? There was a process of centralisation over that period of the Civil service for things like tax collection. Charles's statue just marked the end of Whitehall, as Trafalgar Square didn't exist. Interesting they should choose the site of the Eleanor Cross for that. Could be worth exploring more. Or did the Eleanor Cross already mark the edge of Whitehall, when that point was chosen as the penultimate stopping point on the long trip back to Westminster. (eg 'pausing in the wings', before making a grand entrance the next day) Most of what you say has already been explored earlier in the thread. The "London Allowance" however is a surprise, and I'd have expected it to be based on boroughs, some of whose boundaries are indeed down the middle of streets. Chorleywood, not far from Watford, being one example. In this case, it was actually based on the distance from the region's headquarters, which was Euston Station, (15 miles was the limit, and we were a street's width outside. The office location had been chosen on that basis, according to the more cynical of us.) presumably measured from the buffers. The Union had "had words", but we were stuck with it. Rules is rules, innit? If that was Reeds Crescent, I'd demand a recount. Google maps says it's 14.6 miles. 15m is more like the bus garage in Railway Terrace. -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
In message , at
23:24:59 on Sat, 14 Sep 2019, Robin remarked: I reckon treating Charles as the centre just arose out of "custom and practice" as the Government grew and moved into Whitehall, Moved from where? There was a process of centralisation over that period of the Civil service for things like tax collection. Charles's statue just marked the end of Whitehall, as Trafalgar Square didn't exist. Another example is that the Met Police area was defined in statute by reference to the distance Seven miles in the 1829 Act, extended to 15 miles. in a straight line from Charing Cross in the 1839 Act. Charing Cross was not defined. Not Charing Cross Police Station, which was only converted from a Hospital in the 1970's (with Cannon Row and Bow St stations closing). But plausibly close to 4 Whitehall Place which is where they first started. -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
On 15/09/2019 07:15, Roland Perry wrote:
If that was Reeds Crescent, I'd demand a recount. Google maps says it's 14.6 miles. 15m is more like the bus garage in Railway Terrace. Somewhat over 40 years ago now, but it was Clarendon Road. The block is still there, but with a different occupier, and has had a revamp. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Distances from London
In message , at 08:47:53 on Sun, 15
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: On 15/09/2019 07:15, Roland Perry wrote: If that was Reeds Crescent, I'd demand a recount. Google maps says it's 14.6 miles. 15m is more like the bus garage in Railway Terrace. Somewhat over 40 years ago now, but it was Clarendon Road. I'd still demand a recount. The *far* end of that road is 14.77 miles from Euston Road (adjacent to the station) not even the buffers, according to Google maps. The block is still there, but with a different occupier, and has had a revamp. On the west side, presumably. Meridien House? The rest looks too new to qualify. -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
On 15/09/2019 13:05, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd still demand a recount. The *far* end of that road is 14.77 miles from Euston Road (adjacent to the station) not even the buffers, according to Google maps. Whichever way it works out, the Union agreed with the management. And a ten percent increase for the entire time I worked there wouldn't even buy a decent meal now. The block is still there, but with a different occupier, and has had a revamp. On the west side, presumably. Meridien House? The rest looks too new to qualify. Dunno, I remember the entrance and block shape as being more like what is now the Holiday Inn, and I know that chain have refurbished old office blocks before. This would also be in line with the council's plans for the area. It was a concrete framed building with curtain walls, and they were designed to have regular facelifts just by hanging new walls on them. and the interior walls were most emphatically not load bearing. The frame and lift core were specified to laST a century or more, but when this was built in the '60s, it was known that fashions in building appearances and interior layouts changed over time. When I was there, we had single glazed steel windows and very thin walling between us and the outside. Wikilies says that Watford Junction is 17 miles 44 chains from the buffers at Euston, so they may have been using rail miles, and I misremembered the accusation about merely being on the wrong side of the road. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
Distances from London
In message , at 14:00:44 on Sun, 15
Sep 2019, John Williamson remarked: On 15/09/2019 13:05, Roland Perry wrote: I'd still demand a recount. The *far* end of that road is 14.77 miles from Euston Road (adjacent to the station) not even the buffers, according to Google maps. Whichever way it works out, the Union agreed with the management. And a ten percent increase for the entire time I worked there wouldn't even buy a decent meal now. The block is still there, but with a different occupier, and has had a revamp. On the west side, presumably. Meridien House? The rest looks too new to qualify. Dunno, I remember the entrance and block shape as being more like what is now the Holiday Inn, and I know that chain have refurbished old office blocks before. This would also be in line with the council's plans for the area. Ditto the infamous office block across the road from Brentwood Station where I worked in the 80's is now Premier Inn. It was a concrete framed building with curtain walls, and they were designed to have regular facelifts just by hanging new walls on them. and the interior walls were most emphatically not load bearing. The frame and lift core were specified to laST a century or more, but when this was built in the '60s, it was known that fashions in building appearances and interior layouts changed over time. When I was there, we had single glazed steel windows and very thin walling between us and the outside. Wikilies says that Watford Junction is 17 miles 44 chains from the buffers at Euston, so they may have been using rail miles, and I misremembered the accusation about merely being on the wrong side of the road. I did wonder if they were using railway miles to the adjacent station, rather than crow-flies miles. -- Roland Perry |
Distances from London
"Basil Jet" wrote in message ... The AA used to produce a set of paper maps which were mostly black and white but had red lines indicating the best driving route from the city named on the front to every major town in Britain. Does anyone know what they were called, because I can't find anything abut them on the web. I'd like to know for how many different cities were these maps produced. I still have a 1950 AA roadbook (with a few pages missing) and at the front is a schematic of UK roads with red numbers on them indicating which driving route uses that road then there is a list of driving routes from various As to Bs There is 830 of them and as per a PP I remember when we were going on holiday my dad used to go to the AA office (in Croydon) and have them print out a specific itinerary for our destination - pity that we never kept any of them. No idea how they managed this as I never went with him. tim |
Distances from London
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... On 12/09/2019 17:29, Roland Perry wrote: My recollection is that there were a surprisingly large number of them, indeed you might even be able to get a custom one. I wonder what process they used to produce them? The ones I remember are the ones we used to order before going on holiday in a new area. Send them the required start and finish points, and you got a booklet of strip maps, sort of like the ones that Autoroute could be told to print out in its early days. They had written directions on them as well. I think they were produced by using a standard set of route segments, assembled by hand. Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. Google Maps anyone? No doubt other mapping services available tim |
Distances from London
On 25/09/2019 14:32, tim... wrote:
"John Williamson" wrote in message ... AA route maps Checks Blimey,they still offer the service,but it's on line now. Nowadays, you can print the text route (Including the signs to follow at major junctions) yourself with an option to print a map of any confusing sections. Google Maps anyone? No doubt other mapping services available They are, but it's interesting that the AA still find it worthwhile to maintain their own system even now. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
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