Jobsworth driver
 

In article , martin.coffee@round-
midnight.org.uk writes
I'm not sure what the arrangements for getting a civil licence these
days. They were conducted by the military but that may have changed.

When I was learning to drive a car and was in the TA, I was told that I
could get a test done by an army examiner and thus jump the queue for
tests. In the end I didn't, though.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Jobsworth driver
 

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 21:20:04 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 26/11/2019 20:17, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Richard wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 19:35:03 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.

Better than ringing it too late IMO. Or ringing it when someone else
has already done it

If someone rings it immediately after departure from the previous stop, I
can see the logic in ringing it again on approach to the stop, in case the
driver has forgotten in the meantime.

Except most modern buses have a light on the dash that remains on till
the doors open again.

On one of the bus types that isn't around here [TM] any more, the
time/next stop display didn't always update the next stop until up to
c.50yds after leaving, wiping out any indications resulting from
premature campanology.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:06:54 +0000, Richard
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 19:35:03 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.

Better than ringing it too late IMO. Or ringing it when someone else
has already done it - why does the device not suppress that - or at
the terminus (if you know that it is). Shows a lack of awareness of
surroundings and fellow humans I think.


The lack of awareness manifests itself when those folk just get up off
their seat to walk down the aisle without checking if someone else is
already there. Always makes me wonder if they just pull out without
looking in their cars.

--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

Jobsworth driver
 

In message , at 12:08:47
on Wed, 27 Nov 2019, AnthonyL remarked:
Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.

Better than ringing it too late IMO. Or ringing it when someone else
has already done it - why does the device not suppress that - or at
the terminus (if you know that it is). Shows a lack of awareness of
surroundings and fellow humans I think.

The lack of awareness manifests itself when those folk just get up off
their seat to walk down the aisle without checking if someone else is
already there. Always makes me wonder if they just pull out without
looking in their cars.

I was driving down a fairly narrow residential street the other week and
a car backed out of their drive right across my path. The whole time
they were staring straight ahead (maybe looking in the mirror to make
sue they didn't hit the opposite kerb). At no point did they look either
side to see if there was any cross-traffic.
--
Roland Perry

Jobsworth driver
 

On 26/11/2019 22:40, wrote:
On 25 Nov 2019 00:17:58 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:


Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.


Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm
somehow unaware?



Although I haven’t used one for some years now Southampton passengers
seemed to be very reluctant to use the bell to the extent that visitors to
the City sometimes remarked about it.
The technique seemed to be that someone wishing to alight at the next stop
would get up from their seat
and just lurk a few feet behind the driver who took that as the signal they
wished to get off .
I rang the bell once and the effect wasn’t that much different to that
created by trying to start a conversation on the London Underground.

Any other places where the use of the Bell was similarly disdained.

I'm not sure if the buses in Lanarkshire even had bells, I never heard
one.

I have never understood why people are so reluctant to ring the bell. Do
they want to get off the bus, or not..? In my driving days I was plagued
by people who would lurk somewhere behind the cab and expect me to
"sense" they were there.

I vividly remember one guy, quite well dressed in a business suit and
carrying a briefcase, who, when I had missed the stop that he'd wanted
(not deliberately by any means, I assure you) got very vocal and started
questioning my parentage in very colourful language.

I said to him very politely, why didn't you ring the bell..? He replied
that he never did. I said that if he didn't, it was quite possible that
he might miss his stop.

He then stamped his foot like a petulant 5 year old and shouted at the
top of his voice, making the entire bus sit up and take notice,

"I *WON'T* ring the bell..!"

I just said "Ok, I won't stop the bus" to which he didn't say a word and
got off (at the next stop 100 yards down the road) very quietly.



--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Jobsworth driver
 

On 26/11/2019 21:20, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 26/11/2019 20:17, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Richard wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 19:35:03 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people
are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.

Better than ringing it too late IMO.Â* Or ringing it when someone else
has already done it

If someone rings it immediately after departure from the previous stop, I
can see the logic in ringing it again on approach to the stop, in case
the
driver has forgotten in the meantime.

Except most modern buses have a light on the dash that remains on till
the doors open again.

And the bulb fails and the engineers never bother replacing it.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Jobsworth driver
 

On 27/11/2019 17:26, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 26/11/2019 21:20, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 26/11/2019 20:17, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Richard wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 19:35:03 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people
are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.

Better than ringing it too late IMO.Â* Or ringing it when someone else
has already done it

If someone rings it immediately after departure from the previous
stop, I
can see the logic in ringing it again on approach to the stop, in
case the
driver has forgotten in the meantime.

Except most modern buses have a light on the dash that remains on till
the doors open again.

And the bulb fails and the engineers never bother replacing it.



:-)

LEDs don't fail nearly so often fortunately

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:24:10 +0000, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

On 26/11/2019 22:40, wrote:
On 25 Nov 2019 00:17:58 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote:
On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:


Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.


Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm
somehow unaware?



Although I haven’t used one for some years now Southampton passengers
seemed to be very reluctant to use the bell to the extent that visitors to
the City sometimes remarked about it.
The technique seemed to be that someone wishing to alight at the next stop
would get up from their seat
and just lurk a few feet behind the driver who took that as the signal they
wished to get off .
I rang the bell once and the effect wasn’t that much different to that
created by trying to start a conversation on the London Underground.

Any other places where the use of the Bell was similarly disdained.

I'm not sure if the buses in Lanarkshire even had bells, I never heard
one.

I have never understood why people are so reluctant to ring the bell. Do
they want to get off the bus, or not..? In my driving days I was plagued
by people who would lurk somewhere behind the cab and expect me to
"sense" they were there.

IME that often used to be standard practice in more rural parts where
stops were miles apart and all effectively compulsory (in LT terms).
ISTR some country buses years ago didn't have a bell to ring anyway.

I vividly remember one guy, quite well dressed in a business suit and
carrying a briefcase, who, when I had missed the stop that he'd wanted
(not deliberately by any means, I assure you) got very vocal and started
questioning my parentage in very colourful language.

I said to him very politely, why didn't you ring the bell..? He replied
that he never did. I said that if he didn't, it was quite possible that
he might miss his stop.

He then stamped his foot like a petulant 5 year old and shouted at the
top of his voice, making the entire bus sit up and take notice,

"I *WON'T* ring the bell..!"

I just said "Ok, I won't stop the bus" to which he didn't say a word and
got off (at the next stop 100 yards down the road) very quietly.

Jobsworth driver
 

In uk.railway John Ray wrote:
On 24/11/2019 21:00, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:

Is there some approved timescale for omnibus campanology of which I'm
somehow unaware?

I always wait for the next stop to be announced on the PA system, which
means that, very often, I don't get the chance to ring the bell.

Some Oxford buses tell you to remain in your seat until the bus reaches its
stop, but not all seats have a button for the bell within reach - the first
on the top deck is about three rows back, for instance. When I've
complained to them about their vehicles not having bells within easy reach,
they blame the manufacturers, as though despite being one of the Big Five
bus operators in the country and purchasing their vehicles from new, they
have no say over bus design.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 27/11/2019 19:06, Robin Stevens wrote:

Some Oxford buses tell you to remain in your seat until the bus reaches its
stop, but not all seats have a button for the bell within reach - the first
on the top deck is about three rows back, for instance. When I've
complained to them about their vehicles not having bells within easy reach,
they blame the manufacturers, as though despite being one of the Big Five
bus operators in the country and purchasing their vehicles from new, they
have no say over bus design.

They probably don't. These things are decided by accountants, not
drivers or engineers who actually have to *use* the things. As for
passengers, they don't even enter the consciousness of those who make
these decisions.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Jobsworth driver
 

On 27/11/2019 18:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 27/11/2019 17:26, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 26/11/2019 21:20, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 26/11/2019 20:17, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Richard wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 19:35:03 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people
are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were
spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.

Better than ringing it too late IMO.Â* Or ringing it when someone else
has already done it

If someone rings it immediately after departure from the previous
stop, I
can see the logic in ringing it again on approach to the stop, in
case the
driver has forgotten in the meantime.

Except most modern buses have a light on the dash that remains on
till the doors open again.

And the bulb fails and the engineers never bother replacing it.



:-)

LEDs don't fail nearly so often fortunately

LED's..? Can't be having with those new fangled things...


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Jobsworth driver
 

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 20:17:22 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:

Richard wrote:
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 19:35:03 +0000, Charles Ellson
wrote:

On 24 Nov 2019 13:51:40 GMT, Marland
wrote:

Boltar may be a natural at vehicle handling which not all people are so the
physical driving was ticked off on the first day, the rest were spent
learning what the ringing sound was as the bus approached a stop.

Not in London then where you get ****s ringing the bell 0.1sec after
the bus has left the previous stop.

Better than ringing it too late IMO. Or ringing it when someone else
has already done it

If someone rings it immediately after departure from the previous stop, I
can see the logic in ringing it again on approach to the stop, in case the
driver has forgotten in the meantime.

All good points of course. Perhaps in the case of a premature ding
I'll allow it...

- why does the device not suppress that

Until fairly recently they were very simple devices - either some
electrical contacts and a bell, or an air pressure operated device. Adding
something to make it only ring once would be unnecessary complication.

Yes, but the 'technology' is already in use to turn on a light and
turn it off when the doors open -- on the dash, a basic display or in
the civilised world, something better. The only possible reason I can
think of to allow it to ring again would be a different noise for
upstairs/downstairs, or to allow passengers to indicate some sort of
distress, which is more usually done now by taking a video of it and
uploading it somewhere and even with 5G you might miss the next stop
by the time you've added the necessary animal ears.

And points deducted from Alexander Dennis, who as well as making the
most rattling new buses in the world, provide them with the sound of
the *starting* signal when you press the bell.

Considering how rarely there is a requirement to give a starting signal by
bell code on a modern bus, I'd suggest that giving more than just one short
ding (which may be easily missed depending what else is going on) is a good
idea. The buses round my way give three dings of two different tones.

I'm sure you're right that the answer is never. Still, perhaps it's
Pavlovian. I'm not old enough (and I can't say that much these days)
to have known conductors where I grew up, and so that noise to me is
such a London thing. It's just... *wrong*.

Richard.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 27/11/2019 17:24, MissRiaElaine wrote:

I have never understood why people are so reluctant to ring the bell. Do
they want to get off the bus, or not..? In my driving days I was plagued
by people who would lurk somewhere behind the cab and expect me to
"sense" they were there.

I vividly remember one guy, quite well dressed in a business suit and
carrying a briefcase, who, when I had missed the stop that he'd wanted
(not deliberately by any means, I assure you) got very vocal and started
questioning my parentage in very colourful language.

I said to him very politely, why didn't you ring the bell..? He replied
that he never did. I said that if he didn't, it was quite possible that
he might miss his stop.

He then stamped his foot like a petulant 5 year old and shouted at the
top of his voice, making the entire bus sit up and take notice,

"I *WON'T* ring the bell..!"

I just said "Ok, I won't stop the bus" to which he didn't say a word and
got off (at the next stop 100 yards down the road) very quietly.


I find this very hard to believe.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Saint Etienne - 1991 - Foxbase Alpha

Jobsworth driver
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 27/11/2019 17:24, MissRiaElaine wrote:

I have never understood why people are so reluctant to ring the bell. Do
they want to get off the bus, or not..? In my driving days I was plagued
by people who would lurk somewhere behind the cab and expect me to
"sense" they were there.

I vividly remember one guy, quite well dressed in a business suit and
carrying a briefcase, who, when I had missed the stop that he'd wanted
(not deliberately by any means, I assure you) got very vocal and started
questioning my parentage in very colourful language.

I said to him very politely, why didn't you ring the bell..? He replied
that he never did. I said that if he didn't, it was quite possible that
he might miss his stop.

He then stamped his foot like a petulant 5 year old and shouted at the
top of his voice, making the entire bus sit up and take notice,

"I *WON'T* ring the bell..!"

I just said "Ok, I won't stop the bus" to which he didn't say a word and
got off (at the next stop 100 yards down the road) very quietly.


I find this very hard to believe.


Are you suggesting something like “Pull the other one it’s got Bells on�.


GH

Jobsworth driver
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 27/11/2019 17:24, MissRiaElaine wrote:

I have never understood why people are so reluctant to ring the bell. Do
they want to get off the bus, or not..? In my driving days I was plagued
by people who would lurk somewhere behind the cab and expect me to
"sense" they were there.

I vividly remember one guy, quite well dressed in a business suit and
carrying a briefcase, who, when I had missed the stop that he'd wanted
(not deliberately by any means, I assure you) got very vocal and started
questioning my parentage in very colourful language.

I said to him very politely, why didn't you ring the bell..? He replied
that he never did. I said that if he didn't, it was quite possible that
he might miss his stop.

He then stamped his foot like a petulant 5 year old and shouted at the
top of his voice, making the entire bus sit up and take notice,

"I *WON'T* ring the bell..!"

I just said "Ok, I won't stop the bus" to which he didn't say a word and
got off (at the next stop 100 yards down the road) very quietly.


I find this very hard to believe.


I like to read the tales of customer idiocy on https://notalwaysright.com
and as a result I find the tale about very easy to believe ;)


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Jobsworth driver
 

On 27/11/2019 21:15, Basil Jet wrote:
On 27/11/2019 17:24, MissRiaElaine wrote:

I have never understood why people are so reluctant to ring the bell.
Do they want to get off the bus, or not..? In my driving days I was
plagued by people who would lurk somewhere behind the cab and expect
me to "sense" they were there.

I vividly remember one guy, quite well dressed in a business suit and
carrying a briefcase, who, when I had missed the stop that he'd wanted
(not deliberately by any means, I assure you) got very vocal and
started questioning my parentage in very colourful language.

I said to him very politely, why didn't you ring the bell..? He
replied that he never did. I said that if he didn't, it was quite
possible that he might miss his stop.

He then stamped his foot like a petulant 5 year old and shouted at the
top of his voice, making the entire bus sit up and take notice,

"I *WON'T* ring the bell..!"

I just said "Ok, I won't stop the bus" to which he didn't say a word
and got off (at the next stop 100 yards down the road) very quietly.


I find this very hard to believe.

Believe me (or not), it happened. You tend not to forget such things.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Jobsworth driver
 

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc,
the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour
it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody,
ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

and they're cheering Corbyn for making them un-electable?

tim

Jobsworth driver
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc,
the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly
for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For
a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour
it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed
since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in
office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is
usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody,
ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely
to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they
decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by
Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of
splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else.


I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election.

god help us if we get the "nodding dog" Long-Bailey instead

tim

Jobsworth driver
 

On 27/11/2019 23:30, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 27/11/2019 21:15, Basil Jet wrote:
On 27/11/2019 17:24, MissRiaElaine wrote:

I have never understood why people are so reluctant to ring the bell.
Do they want to get off the bus, or not..? In my driving days I was
plagued by people who would lurk somewhere behind the cab and expect
me to "sense" they were there.

I vividly remember one guy, quite well dressed in a business suit and
carrying a briefcase, who, when I had missed the stop that he'd
wanted (not deliberately by any means, I assure you) got very vocal
and started questioning my parentage in very colourful language.

I said to him very politely, why didn't you ring the bell..? He
replied that he never did. I said that if he didn't, it was quite
possible that he might miss his stop.

He then stamped his foot like a petulant 5 year old and shouted at
the top of his voice, making the entire bus sit up and take notice,

"I *WON'T* ring the bell..!"

I just said "Ok, I won't stop the bus" to which he didn't say a word
and got off (at the next stop 100 yards down the road) very quietly.


I find this very hard to believe.

Believe me (or not), it happened. You tend not to forget such things.


As a bus passenger, I notice numerous occasions when people at bus stops
(serving multiple routes) stick their arms out - after the front of the
bus has passed the stop -- and then look puzzled / annoyed when the bus
fails to stop. They must think that bus drivers are mindreaders...

Jobsworth driver
 

On 28/11/2019 19:16, Bevan Price wrote:

As a bus passenger, I notice numerous occasions when people at bus stops
(serving multiple routes) stick their arms out - after the front of the
bus has passed the stop -- and then look puzzled / annoyed when the bus
fails to stop. They must think that bus drivers are mindreaders...

These passengers were probably queueing behind someone else and didn't
realise that the other person didn't want this bus until it was too
late. The requirement that bus passengers should queue and the
requirement that they should hail the buses conflict, unless every bus
calling at the stop is going to the same places.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Teleman - 2014 - Breakfast

Jobsworth driver
 

On 28/11/2019 19:57, Basil Jet wrote:
On 28/11/2019 19:16, Bevan Price wrote:

As a bus passenger, I notice numerous occasions when people at bus
stops (serving multiple routes) stick their arms out - after the front
of the bus has passed the stop -- and then look puzzled / annoyed when
the bus fails to stop. They must think that bus drivers are
mindreaders...

These passengers were probably queueing behind someone else and didn't
realise that the other person didn't want this bus until it was too
late. The requirement that bus passengers should queue and the
requirement that they should hail the buses conflict, unless every bus
calling at the stop is going to the same places.

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Jobsworth driver
 

tim... wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc,
the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour
it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody,
ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

and they're cheering Corbyn for making them un-electable?

Yes, the hard left prefers the purity that's only possible in Opposition.
Governing requires compromise, which they find intolerable.

Jobsworth driver
 

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc,
the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly
for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For
a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour
it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed
since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in
office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is
usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody,
ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely
to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they
decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by
Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of
splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else.


I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election.

god help us if we get the "nodding dog" Long-Bailey instead

She is, indeed, their preferred front woman, with McDonnell pulling her
strings from behind the scenes. But apparently she auditions badly, being
beaten by Angela Rayner, who I find even more annoying.

Jobsworth driver
 

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 28/11/2019 19:57, Basil Jet wrote:
On 28/11/2019 19:16, Bevan Price wrote:

As a bus passenger, I notice numerous occasions when people at bus
stops (serving multiple routes) stick their arms out - after the front
of the bus has passed the stop -- and then look puzzled / annoyed when
the bus fails to stop. They must think that bus drivers are
mindreaders...

These passengers were probably queueing behind someone else and didn't
realise that the other person didn't want this bus until it was too
late. The requirement that bus passengers should queue and the
requirement that they should hail the buses conflict, unless every bus
calling at the stop is going to the same places.

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).



Exit doors cost money, take up the space of two or four seats, and run the
risk of people sneaking on without paying.

Jobsworth driver
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 22:01:41 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:

On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity,
etc,
the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly
for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them.
For
a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised
labour
it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed
since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in
office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is
usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody,
ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10
of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years,
19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks
likely
to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

Unfortunately for many people he also made them unelectable and they
decided to vote for real Tories. Labour are currently shackled by
Corbyn, at least until the time he stops collecting an arse full of
splinters from the fences that he sits on or they find someone else.


I assume he and McDonnell will have to go soon after the election.

god help us if we get the "nodding dog" Long-Bailey instead

She is, indeed, their preferred front woman,

I know

Apart from the fact that she's a woman and is prepared to parrot whatever
line they want spinning this week, her qualifications for the job appear to
be zero

with McDonnell pulling her
strings from behind the scenes.

That I didn't know. I just assumed it was her subscribing to group-think in
order to progress up the slippery pole

But apparently she auditions badly,

IMHO she performs badly on TV in any debate, so that's no surprise

being
beaten by Angela Rayner, who I find even more annoying.

There don't seem to be any quality female candidates on the hard left

Perhaps there's something missing from the female psyche (not that that's a
bad thing generally)

Jobsworth driver
 

On 29/11/2019 00:21, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).

Exit doors cost money, take up the space of two or four seats, and run the
risk of people sneaking on without paying.

Doesn't seem to happen a lot in London, though. Centre doors seem to
have been much more of a success there than anywhere else, at least in
the UK.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Jobsworth driver
 

On 29/11/2019 00:08, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 22/11/2019 21:58, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

Surely the desired result from he point of view of the workers is to
have a Labour government in power, and running the railways for the
workers. Why would they ever need to go on strike?


The odd thing is that UK governments are generally Tory-ledâ€*, so by
demanding government-owned railways, broadband, gas, electricity, etc,
the
unions are, in effect, trying to ensure they will be working directly for
Tory ministers.

â€* Quote:
The Labour Party is much better understood through its defeats than
through its victories, and not just because there are more of them. For a
party that was founded to be the parliamentary wing of organised labour
it
has been signally unsuccessful. Of the 119 years that have elapsed since
Labour issued its first manifesto, it has spent only 33 of them in office
and 13 of those were won by the unperson Blair. There have been 31
elections and Labour has won a working majority just five times.

…

That's a quote from what?


I am always puzzled by why Labour wants the government (which is usually
Tory) to run the trains. “Put Chris Grayling in charge,� said nobody,
ever.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/election-2019-labours-manifesto-is-mere-wishful-thinking-mflqs79sc?shareToken=0abbdeb43c9af906fbd956f843a80 c15

[In the 74 years since 1945, Labour has spent 24 years in power, 10 of
which were under the now-hated Blair. So, only 14 out of 74 years, 19%,
were under leaders the unions approve of. That proportion looks likely to
shrink.]



Yes the left have never forgiven Blair for making Labour electable.

and they're cheering Corbyn for making them un-electable?

Yes, the hard left prefers the purity that's only possible in Opposition.
Governing requires compromise, which they find intolerable.



Or, in Corbyn's case, making a decision.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 29/11/2019 07:04, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 29/11/2019 00:21, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).

Exit doors cost money, take up the space of two or four seats, and run
the
risk of people sneaking on without paying.

Doesn't seem to happen a lot in London, though. Centre doors seem to
have been much more of a success there than anywhere else, at least in
the UK.

Edinburgh is bringing back the system of entry door at the front and
exit door in the middle, which used to be the norm there before
single-door buses were introduced in the 1990s. It may help that
almost all routes have a flat fare regardless of distance.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 00:00:27 +0000, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

On 28/11/2019 19:57, Basil Jet wrote:
On 28/11/2019 19:16, Bevan Price wrote:

As a bus passenger, I notice numerous occasions when people at bus
stops (serving multiple routes) stick their arms out - after the front
of the bus has passed the stop -- and then look puzzled / annoyed when
the bus fails to stop. They must think that bus drivers are
mindreaders...

These passengers were probably queueing behind someone else and didn't
realise that the other person didn't want this bus until it was too
late. The requirement that bus passengers should queue and the
requirement that they should hail the buses conflict, unless every bus
calling at the stop is going to the same places.

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).


I now never queue. I stand before the bus stop and as the bus
approaches I'll put my hand out if no-one else has. Often those that
don't are just too busy with their heads in their smartphones.
Recently one girl had looked up, seen the display for the bus change
from 1min to Due, and continued with her smartphone oblivious to the
fact the bus was now approaching.

However I do tend to get on last and I don't travel at rush hout.

On double-deckers I still like to sit at the front and observer the
"driver's" view. It is amazing how many folk assume the bus will
stop:

a) at bus stops without putting a hand out (maybe they don't know)

b) at pedestrian crossings even though they've not given any
indication that they are about to cross - not even a glance to see if
there might be a few tons of metal heading their direction. And then
they amble across without consideration that they are holding a whole
load of passengers up.


--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?

Jobsworth driver
 

On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 13:05:22 GMT
lid (AnthonyL) wrote:
b) at pedestrian crossings even though they've not given any
indication that they are about to cross - not even a glance to see if
there might be a few tons of metal heading their direction. And then
they amble across without consideration that they are holding a whole
load of passengers up.

Are pedestrians supposed to time their crossings to keep vehicle passengers
happy in your world?

Jobsworth driver
 

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 19:57:59 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 28/11/2019 19:16, Bevan Price wrote:

As a bus passenger, I notice numerous occasions when people at bus stops
(serving multiple routes) stick their arms out - after the front of the
bus has passed the stop -- and then look puzzled / annoyed when the bus
fails to stop. They must think that bus drivers are mindreaders...

These passengers were probably queueing behind someone else and didn't
realise that the other person didn't want this bus until it was too
late. The requirement that bus passengers should queue and the
requirement that they should hail the buses conflict, unless every bus
calling at the stop is going to the same places.

AFAIAA the requirement to queue went in a prevoous Tory "bonfire of
red tape".

Jobsworth driver
 

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:13:23 +0000, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

On 27/11/2019 19:06, Robin Stevens wrote:

Some Oxford buses tell you to remain in your seat until the bus reaches its
stop, but not all seats have a button for the bell within reach - the first
on the top deck is about three rows back, for instance. When I've
complained to them about their vehicles not having bells within easy reach,
they blame the manufacturers, as though despite being one of the Big Five
bus operators in the country and purchasing their vehicles from new, they
have no say over bus design.

They probably don't. These things are decided by accountants, not
drivers or engineers who actually have to *use* the things. As for
passengers, they don't even enter the consciousness of those who make
these decisions.

Once upon a time, even accountants used buses.

Jobsworth driver
 

On 2019-11-29 12:37:00 +0000, Certes said:

On 29/11/2019 07:04, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 29/11/2019 00:21, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).

Exit doors cost money, take up the space of two or four seats, and run the
risk of people sneaking on without paying.

Doesn't seem to happen a lot in London, though. Centre doors seem to
have been much more of a success there than anywhere else, at least in
the UK.

Edinburgh is bringing back the system of entry door at the front and
exit door in the middle, which used to be the norm there before
single-door buses were introduced in the 1990s. It may help that
almost all routes have a flat fare regardless of distance.

At the cost, despite the new buses being longer, of reduced
pram/buggy/wheelchair space.

Sam

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

Jobsworth driver
 

Certes wrote:
On 05/12/2019 13:02, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:42:13 +0000, Certes wrote:

On 05/12/2019 12:29, Recliner wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 11:25:00 +0000, Sam Wilson
wrote:

On 2019-11-29 12:42:44 +0000, said:

Am Freitag, 29. November 2019 13:37:04 UTC+1 schrieb Certes:
On 29/11/2019 07:04, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 29/11/2019 00:21, Recliner wrote:

Nobody queues around here. They just stand around all over the place,
blocking the pavement, smoking or fiddling with their phones, then when
a bus arrives they all try and get on at the same time with no regard to
who was there first and never mind people getting off (we don't have
separate exit doors here, unlike London. Very few places do, never
understood why).

Exit doors cost money, take up the space of two or four seats, and run
the
risk of people sneaking on without paying.

Doesn't seem to happen a lot in London, though. Centre doors seem to
have been much more of a success there than anywhere else, at least in
the UK.

Edinburgh is bringing back the system of entry door at the front and
exit door in the middle, which used to be the norm there before
single-door buses were introduced in the 1990s. It may help that
almost all routes have a flat fare regardless of distance.

Tickets do not include changes, do they?

The standard Edinburgh ticket is for a single trip on a single bus with
no changes and costs £1.70.

That's interesting: it's only £1.50 in London, and for that, you can
have unlimited changes within one hour. It also includes the tram
network.


The other option is a day ticket which
costs £4.00, so less than three single tickets, and gives unlimited
travel for the day. Going to the airport costs more.

London bus journeys are capped at £4.40, so just under three tickets.
You don't have to buy a day ticket, as the cap is applied
automatically, and of course the valid area is far larger. It doesn't
cost any extra to go to the two airports within the London bus area,
and in fact the London buses are free in and around Heathrow.

Edinburgh's buses aren't subsidised. They are required to make a profit
to pay some of the tram line's debts.

No subsidy at all?

From:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-19-00428/

... for financial year 2017/18, the BSOG [Bus Service Operators Grant]
payments made by Transport Scotland to Lothian Region Bus Group were
as follows:

Lothian Buses = £6,410,519.70

East Coast Buses (an entity of Lothian Buses) = £530,533,30

Thanks; that's interesting. The buses used to make a small profit,
and are about to have another £20m "dividend" siphoned off for trams.

£7m is almost 1% of what London gets (for a larger area, of course):
https://railpage.com.au/news/s/london-bus-subsidies-cost-722-million


Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London
Buses would be in much better shape without them.

TfL's finances are in poor shape, partly because of the fares freeze, and
partly because of the absence of the expected revenue from Crossrail. Tens
of millions were also squandered on the mythical Garden Bridge.

Jobsworth driver
 

In message , at 15:57:21 on Thu, 5 Dec 2019,
Recliner remarked:

Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London
Buses would be in much better shape without them.

TfL's finances are in poor shape, partly because of the fares freeze, and
partly because of the absence of the expected revenue from Crossrail. Tens
of millions were also squandered on the mythical Garden Bridge.

Boris said earlier in the election campaign he's proud of everything he
did as mayor.
--
Roland Perry

Jobsworth driver
 

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:57:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London

Given even the normal hybrid buses I occasionally use only seem to switch
their diesel engines off when stopped (might as well just use a stop-start
system rather than lugging heavy batteries around) and for about 3 seconds
after pulling away I wonder who much fuel any of them really save.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:09:38 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:57:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London

Given even the normal hybrid buses I occasionally use only seem to switch
their diesel engines off when stopped (might as well just use a stop-start
system rather than lugging heavy batteries around)

A lot of new single-deckers have that.

and for about 3 seconds
after pulling away I wonder who much fuel any of them really save.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:53:11 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:09:38 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:57:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London

Given even the normal hybrid buses I occasionally use only seem to switch
their diesel engines off when stopped (might as well just use a stop-start
system rather than lugging heavy batteries around)

A lot of new single-deckers have that.

Yes, I've noticed that. The system seems a bit too keen however, cutting out
the moment the bus stops which means in traffic the engine is constantly
stopping and starting. Even though its designed for this is still can't do
the emissions any favours and I bet they have to change the starters quite
often too.

Jobsworth driver
 

On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:07:36 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 15:53:11 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:09:38 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:57:21 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, London buses consume a large subsidy, but it doesn't come from the
government. It's a cross-subsidy from the Tube. The much-hyped Boris buses
have made it worse, being almost twice as expensive as conventional hybrid
double-deckers, heavier on fuel, and with a fare evasion problem. London

Given even the normal hybrid buses I occasionally use only seem to switch
their diesel engines off when stopped (might as well just use a stop-start
system rather than lugging heavy batteries around)

A lot of new single-deckers have that.

Yes, I've noticed that. The system seems a bit too keen however, cutting out
the moment the bus stops which means in traffic the engine is constantly
stopping and starting.

Not IME with bus engines only stopping when the doors open but it
could vary by vehicle type.

Even though its designed for this is still can't do
the emissions any favours and I bet they have to change the starters quite
often too.

I did wonder if the usual type of starter motor engaging the flywheel
had been upgraded to something else to avoid the current pattern of
wear.

Jobsworth driver
 

In article ,
() wrote:

My cousin did his HGV test using all that was available... A tank
transported loaded with a tank.

If he was authorised to drive the transporter, then he didn't have to
take the test.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

There are two kinds of people in the world,
Those who can draw conclusions from incomplete data...