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  #101   Report Post  
Old June 23rd 20, 09:41 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:24:49 on Sun, 21 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:

There's nothing in the story from The Telegraph which confirms their
test is *not* one of the kind the MHRA are now saying not to use.


I think you need a drive to Barnard Castle. Then read it again. Or for the
first time.


Please quote the Telegraph text which supports your proposition.


I already had done. So, even when I include text from an article behind a
paywall, you still don't read it. This is part of the extract I included:

Avonchem contacted the Government in March, offering to supply the
finger-prick test, but has still not secured Public Health England (PHE) or
Department of Health (DoH) approval for the kits, despite the test being
approved by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA)
and being widely used in other countries.

The pin-prick test is 99.4 per cent accurate, according to independent
verification obtained by Avonchem, with results available in 10 to 15
minutes. But the firm now warns it may have to ship the tests overseas if
it can not secure the necessary approval for their use in this country in
the near future.


Contrast that with:

The MHRA is asking providers of laboratory-based COVID-19 antibody testing
services using capillary blood collected by a fingerprick, to temporarily
stop providing this service until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory tests.

This does not affect rapid, point of care tests or laboratory tests
performed using blood taken from the vein.

The Agency has recently updated its guidance on home antibody testing kits,
to ensure that the public and industry have the latest information on the
reliability of test results and what they mean.

Graeme Tunbridge, MHRA Interim Director of Devices, comments:

Patient safety and public health are our main priorities and it is in the
interests of everyone for antibody tests to be as reliable and meaningful
as they can be.

There are several UK providers of testing services who offer COVID-19
antibody testing using a fingerprick sample of capillary blood collected in
a small container.

We are asking all providers of laboratory-based COVID-19 antibody testing
services using capillary blood collected by a fingerprick to temporarily
stop providing this service until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory tests.

——

It shouldn't have taken an intelligent person more than 10-15 seconds to
spot that the last sentence means that the MHRA comment doesn't apply to
the Avonchem test, as it doesn't use home collection for lab testing. If
you still don't get it, perhaps you know an intelligent person who can help
you comprehend?

  #102   Report Post  
Old June 23rd 20, 09:45 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:54:22 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:50:17 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 11:03:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:12:22 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020,
remarked:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 17:59:47 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:55:38 on Fri, 19 Jun
2020,
remarked:

given Ferguson was prediction 500K deaths I think we can say that the
model needed a bit of tweaking.

Wasn't that if we "did nothing". But we did 'something'.

A similar prediction was also made for Sweden.

Who had social distancing and PPE policies. But a lack of lockdown has

Voluntary policies. They treated their population as adults, not naughty
children who needed to be coralled at home.

And look how successful that was.

Actually, not bad compared to the "take no action at all" scenario, even
though they nevertheless have the worst figures in Europe.


Which 'they' are you referring to in that statement?


Sweden.

Presumably not Sweden, whose figures are better than the UK.


But are significantly worse than other r27 countries.


Rubbish. You'll have to cite the scientific paper that supports that fake
statistic. Or did you just make it up?

Meanwhile, in the real world, Sweden has the fifth-worst figures in Europe.
We are second-worst.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/


ps In case you hadn't noticed, we left Europe.


Really? Which continent are we in now?
  #103   Report Post  
Old June 23rd 20, 11:07 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 311
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On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 09:45:58 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:54:22 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:50:17 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 11:03:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:12:22 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020,
remarked:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 17:59:47 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:55:38 on Fri, 19 Jun
2020,
remarked:

given Ferguson was prediction 500K deaths I think we can say that the
model needed a bit of tweaking.

Wasn't that if we "did nothing". But we did 'something'.

A similar prediction was also made for Sweden.

Who had social distancing and PPE policies. But a lack of lockdown has

Voluntary policies. They treated their population as adults, not naughty
children who needed to be coralled at home.

And look how successful that was.

Actually, not bad compared to the "take no action at all" scenario, even
though they nevertheless have the worst figures in Europe.

Which 'they' are you referring to in that statement?


Sweden.

Presumably not Sweden, whose figures are better than the UK.


But are significantly worse than other r27 countries.


Rubbish. You'll have to cite the scientific paper that supports that fake
statistic. Or did you just make it up?

Meanwhile, in the real world, Sweden has the fifth-worst figures in Europe.
We are second-worst.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...orldwide-per-m
illion-inhabitants/


Further proof if any more was needed that lockdown was a pointless exercise
that has achieved little other than to kill the economy. France had Spain both
had a far stricter lockdown than us yet have fared little better. And its
unlikely to be down to social distancing and PPE since Spain also went for 2m
and AFAIK people had to wear masks in shops. There's something much more subtle
at work IMO.

  #104   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 05:37 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Aug 2003
Posts: 9,989
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In message , at 09:45:58 on Tue, 23 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:54:22 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:50:17 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 11:03:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:12:22 on Mon, 22 Jun
2020,
remarked:
On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 17:59:47 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:55:38 on Fri, 19 Jun
2020,
remarked:

given Ferguson was prediction 500K deaths I think we can say that the
model needed a bit of tweaking.

Wasn't that if we "did nothing". But we did 'something'.

A similar prediction was also made for Sweden.

Who had social distancing and PPE policies. But a lack of lockdown has

Voluntary policies. They treated their population as adults, not naughty
children who needed to be coralled at home.

And look how successful that was.

Actually, not bad compared to the "take no action at all" scenario, even
though they nevertheless have the worst figures in Europe.

Which 'they' are you referring to in that statement?


Sweden.

Presumably not Sweden, whose figures are better than the UK.


But are significantly worse than other r27 countries.


Rubbish. You'll have to cite the scientific paper that supports that fake
statistic. Or did you just make it up?

Meanwhile, in the real world, Sweden has the fifth-worst figures in Europe.
We are second-worst.


I was quoting OurWorldinData, and looking at the *current* run-rate of
cases. Which has Sweden at 50 per million, and UK at 38 per million.

The important thing is that Sweden is pretty much plateaued, whereas
most others are declining.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...irus-lockdown-
sweden-death-rate-worst-country-covid-19-a9539206.html

But the Swedish *deaths* are running at twice ours too.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...avirus-deaths-
worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

ps In case you hadn't noticed, we left Europe.


Really? Which continent are we in now?


Not part of the 28, which is why I used the expression r27, above.
--
Roland Perry
  #105   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 05:42 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 9,989
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In message , at 09:41:15 on Tue, 23 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:24:49 on Sun, 21 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:

There's nothing in the story from The Telegraph which confirms their
test is *not* one of the kind the MHRA are now saying not to use.

I think you need a drive to Barnard Castle. Then read it again. Or for the
first time.


Please quote the Telegraph text which supports your proposition.


I already had done. So, even when I include text from an article behind a
paywall, you still don't read it. This is part of the extract I included:

Avonchem contacted the Government in March, offering to supply the
finger-prick test,


Finger prick test

but has still not secured Public Health England (PHE) or
Department of Health (DoH) approval for the kits, despite the test being
approved by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA)
and being widely used in other countries.

The pin-prick test is 99.4 per cent accurate, according to independent
verification obtained by Avonchem, with results available in 10 to 15
minutes. But the firm now warns it may have to ship the tests overseas if
it can not secure the necessary approval for their use in this country in
the near future.


Contrast that with:

The MHRA is asking providers of laboratory-based COVID-19 antibody testing
services using capillary blood collected by a fingerprick, to temporarily
stop providing this service


MHRA says "stop the finger prick tests"...

until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory tests.


....*until*

This does not affect rapid, point of care tests or laboratory tests
performed using blood taken from the vein.

The Agency has recently updated its guidance on home antibody testing kits,
to ensure that the public and industry have the latest information on the
reliability of test results and what they mean.

Graeme Tunbridge, MHRA Interim Director of Devices, comments:

Patient safety and public health are our main priorities and it is in the
interests of everyone for antibody tests to be as reliable and meaningful
as they can be.

There are several UK providers of testing services who offer COVID-19
antibody testing using a fingerprick sample of capillary blood collected in
a small container.

We are asking all providers of laboratory-based COVID-19 antibody testing
services using capillary blood collected by a fingerprick to temporarily
stop providing this service until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory tests.

——

It shouldn't have taken an intelligent person more than 10-15 seconds to
spot that the last sentence means that the MHRA comment doesn't apply to
the Avonchem test, as it doesn't use home collection for lab testing. If
you still don't get it, perhaps you know an intelligent person who can help
you comprehend?


You've confused yourself. It's not the Avonchem test that's done in the
lab, but the "until" part. And UNTIL they've done that, they don't want
any more pricks [Bites tongue].
--
Roland Perry


  #106   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 09:49 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 622
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:41:15 on Tue, 23 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:24:49 on Sun, 21 Jun
2020, Recliner remarked:

There's nothing in the story from The Telegraph which confirms their
test is *not* one of the kind the MHRA are now saying not to use.

I think you need a drive to Barnard Castle. Then read it again. Or for the
first time.

Please quote the Telegraph text which supports your proposition.


I already had done. So, even when I include text from an article behind a
paywall, you still don't read it. This is part of the extract I included:

Avonchem contacted the Government in March, offering to supply the
finger-prick test,


Finger prick test

but has still not secured Public Health England (PHE) or
Department of Health (DoH) approval for the kits, despite the test being
approved by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA)
and being widely used in other countries.

The pin-prick test is 99.4 per cent accurate, according to independent
verification obtained by Avonchem, with results available in 10 to 15
minutes. But the firm now warns it may have to ship the tests overseas if
it can not secure the necessary approval for their use in this country in
the near future.


Contrast that with:

The MHRA is asking providers of laboratory-based COVID-19 antibody testing
services using capillary blood collected by a fingerprick, to temporarily
stop providing this service


MHRA says "stop the finger prick tests"...

until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory tests.


...*until*

This does not affect rapid, point of care tests or laboratory tests
performed using blood taken from the vein.

The Agency has recently updated its guidance on home antibody testing kits,
to ensure that the public and industry have the latest information on the
reliability of test results and what they mean.

Graeme Tunbridge, MHRA Interim Director of Devices, comments:

Patient safety and public health are our main priorities and it is in the
interests of everyone for antibody tests to be as reliable and meaningful
as they can be.

There are several UK providers of testing services who offer COVID-19
antibody testing using a fingerprick sample of capillary blood collected in
a small container.

We are asking all providers of laboratory-based COVID-19 antibody testing
services using capillary blood collected by a fingerprick to temporarily
stop providing this service until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory tests.

——

It shouldn't have taken an intelligent person more than 10-15 seconds to
spot that the last sentence means that the MHRA comment doesn't apply to
the Avonchem test, as it doesn't use home collection for lab testing. If
you still don't get it, perhaps you know an intelligent person who can help
you comprehend?


You've confused yourself. It's not the Avonchem test that's done in the
lab, but the "until" part. And UNTIL they've done that, they don't want
any more pricks [Bites tongue].


The key words are, 'laboratory-based COVID-19 antibody testing'. That
doesn't apply to the Avonchem test.

It's the home collection of pinprick samples for lab analysis that the MHRA
is dubious about; it is explicitly not against 'rapid' tests. Presumably
the problem lies in keeping tiny pinprick blood samples in good condition
during the several days it might take to get them back to the testing lab.
It's not a problem if they're immediately tested.
  #107   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 02:51 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In article , Recliner
writes
It's the home collection of pinprick samples for lab analysis that the MHRA
is dubious about; it is explicitly not against 'rapid' tests. Presumably
the problem lies in keeping tiny pinprick blood samples in good condition
during the several days it might take to get them back to the testing lab.


We did these last week. You prick your finger, using a provided lancet,
and drip blood into a small tube. Seal the tube with the special cap.
Attach a label. Put the whole lot in the included special envelope which
is designed for the job and pre-labelled. Take to the local post office
and give it to them; it's pre-paid express delivery. Checked and it was
delivered at 06:05 the following morning and we were emailed the results
later in the day.

--
Clive D.W. Feather
  #108   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 03:01 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 622
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On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 15:51:57 +0100, "Clive D.W. Feather"
wrote:

In article , Recliner
writes
It's the home collection of pinprick samples for lab analysis that the MHRA
is dubious about; it is explicitly not against 'rapid' tests. Presumably
the problem lies in keeping tiny pinprick blood samples in good condition
during the several days it might take to get them back to the testing lab.


We did these last week. You prick your finger, using a provided lancet,
and drip blood into a small tube. Seal the tube with the special cap.
Attach a label. Put the whole lot in the included special envelope which
is designed for the job and pre-labelled. Take to the local post office
and give it to them; it's pre-paid express delivery. Checked and it was
delivered at 06:05 the following morning and we were emailed the results
later in the day.


That seems pretty good, but maybe it isn't always? Normal RM
deliveries are typically running a day late at present, but maybe
these express services are still working promptly.

But you missed out the punch line? Was the result as expected? Have
you already had the disease?
  #109   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 05:24 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 1,071
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"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:41:15 on Tue, 23 Jun


MHRA says "stop the finger prick tests"...

until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory
tests.


...*until*

This does not affect rapid, point of care tests or laboratory tests
performed using blood taken from the vein.

The Agency has recently updated its guidance on home antibody testing
kits,
to ensure that the public and industry have the latest information on
the
reliability of test results and what they mean.

Graeme Tunbridge, MHRA Interim Director of Devices, comments:


with the announcement that there are now going to be "walk in" centres for
people who cannot attend the current drive-ins, I took a look at the process
so that I might be able to see if my long lasting, but very minor, symptoms
are COVID (as the doctor continually suggest that they might be).

And firstly I fell at the first global hurdle - "you should make sure to
take the test during the first 5 days of symptoms" (so I'm out there by more
than 100 days)

and second I fell at the ridiculous assault course inserted in front of the
walk-in centres - "do not come to the centre by public transport or taxi -
walk or cycle"

there are 4 of them in the whole country

are they really expecting "ill" people to walk/cycle 150 miles to get to one
of them?

Nuts!

tim


  #110   Report Post  
Old June 26th 20, 07:27 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 622
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tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:41:15 on Tue, 23 Jun


MHRA says "stop the finger prick tests"...

until home collection of this sample type has
been properly assessed and validated for use with these laboratory
tests.

...*until*

This does not affect rapid, point of care tests or laboratory tests
performed using blood taken from the vein.

The Agency has recently updated its guidance on home antibody testing
kits,
to ensure that the public and industry have the latest information on
the
reliability of test results and what they mean.

Graeme Tunbridge, MHRA Interim Director of Devices, comments:


with the announcement that there are now going to be "walk in" centres for
people who cannot attend the current drive-ins, I took a look at the process
so that I might be able to see if my long lasting, but very minor, symptoms
are COVID (as the doctor continually suggest that they might be).

And firstly I fell at the first global hurdle - "you should make sure to
take the test during the first 5 days of symptoms" (so I'm out there by more
than 100 days)

and second I fell at the ridiculous assault course inserted in front of the
walk-in centres - "do not come to the centre by public transport or taxi -
walk or cycle"

there are 4 of them in the whole country

are they really expecting "ill" people to walk/cycle 150 miles to get to one
of them?

Nuts!


Yes, that's absurd. Can you get a home antibody test, to check if you've
had and recovered from it?





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