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Old June 17th 20, 03:54 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/06/2020 13:57, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:20:21 +0100, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

On 17/06/2020 13:11, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/06/2020 07:29, tim... wrote:


"MissRiaElaine" wrote in message
...
On 16/06/2020 16:56, tim... wrote:

good god

I was expecting something functionally superior

Functional..? NONE of the ridiculous things being worn by the public
at large are remotely functional.

You're wrong

some designs do have filtered vents which (attempt) to safely solve the
condensation problem

Whether they actually work, or not

I have no idea

They are medical masks and should be reserved for medical professionals.

The silly cloth things that people wear walking around Tesco are useless.

On what basis did you reach that conclusion? As long as they're at least
two layers thick, they'll do the job they're intended to do.

Lull people into a false sense of security, yes. They're excellent at
that. I for one am not so easily fooled.


False sense of security against what?


Against thinking they're protected when they're not. And that's what the
majority of idiots out there think. And if you can't see that, then
you're one of them. I give up.


How do you know what the majority of the public think?


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Old June 17th 20, 04:06 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/06/2020 13:24, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:50:29 on Wed, 17
Jun 2020, MissRiaElaine remarked:

Functional..? NONE of the ridiculous things being worn by the public at
large are remotely functional.

*In what sense?

In the sense that people have them on for.

Unless you are a medical professional or you have the training to use
the correct mask in the correct way (including disposal) then it isn't
going to be any use.

Once you touch them, then they are contaminated, and so are your hands
and anything you touch.


You are addressing the wrong function. Masks for travellers aren't PPE,
they are to stop coughs and sneezes *BY THE WEARER*, spreading the
disease. Also by the wearer not so easily touching their mouth/nose and
then wiping their snot on the surroundings.

This is, incidentally, why a DIY dust mask with a valve in it is "the
wrong way round". But they are still better than nothing.


Oh believe what you like, I give up.


So what do you believe?

As far as I can tell, you don't want to wear a mask because they're hot and
uncomfortable. I agree.

But I don't then dream up increasingly bizarre 'dog-ate-my-homework'
reasons for not doing so. Have I missed any of yours:

- Only trained medical staff with PPE training are capable of wearing
masks.

- They don't protect the wearer. No, they're not claimed to do so.

- It will prevent autistic people forming deep and personal relationships
with people they casually encounter on public transport. These are the same
people who don't relate to other people, anyway, with or without masks,
right?

- They give wearers a false sense of security.

- They will contaminate the hands of infected wearers. Really?

- They will make everyone look like street robbers.

- They will prevent deaf people from lip reading essential announcements
on public transport.

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Old June 17th 20, 05:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:

No they aren't. The majority are DIY dusk-masks, and the vent is to let
the moist air out.


Which kind of puts to rest the argument that masks protect others.
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Old June 17th 20, 08:25 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

No they aren't. The majority are DIY dusk-masks, and the vent is to let
the moist air out.


Which kind of puts to rest the argument that masks protect others.


The moist exhaled air will obviously get out anyway, but any form of face
covering that makes the droplets follow a more tortuous route will reduce
the distance they are projected. That's all that these face coverings for
the general public are expected to do. They are not medical grade PPE.


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Old June 18th 20, 12:27 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/06/2020 13:57, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:19:13 +0100, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

On 17/06/2020 13:11, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/06/2020 12:50, tim... wrote:

but they are meant to stop you contaminating someone else

not the other way round

So how are they going to do that, when you are infected and touch your
mask then touch something else..?


An infected person's hands would be contaminated anyway, so they certainly
don't make things worse. But they do greatly reduce the distance that
droplets are projected, which is all they're meant to do.

Possibly. But they still lull people into a false sense of security.


How do you know? And do you mean the wearers, or others in their
vicinity?


Because that's what placebos do. They make people think they're cured,
or protected or whatever.

I cannot deal with people face to face unless I can *see* their face.
And how is a deaf person supposed to lip-read..?


How often do you need to speak to a deaf person?


Irrelevant. And *how dare you* insult a large proportion of the
population..? For all you know, one or more of my family could be deaf,
or my friends. Yes, I do have some, what about you..?

And you haven't answered my question about those of us who cannot relate
to people when we cannot see their faces. It frightens me and I am not
alone. There are many people out there with similar mental health
conditions. Mine is autism, what's yours..?



Impatience, especially with the growing number of people who reckon they
have mental issues of some kind and expect society to work around their
foibles , mental health problems seem to be spreading among the population
quicker than Covid 19 and its become fashionable .
It detracts from the genuine cases who have real issues .

And I’ll, have a Gin and Tonic please.

GH


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Old June 18th 20, 05:49 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 15:18:40 on Wed, 17
Jun 2020, MissRiaElaine remarked:
On 17/06/2020 14:36, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:20:21 on Wed, 17
Jun 2020, MissRiaElaine remarked:

The silly cloth things that people wear walking around Tesco are
useless.

*On what basis did you reach that conclusion?* As long as they're
at least* two layers thick, they'll do the job they're intended to do.

Lull people into a false sense of security, yes. They're excellent
at that. I for one am not so easily fooled.

Perhaps the message that they aren't intended to protect the wearer,
hasn't got through?
This is a wonderful commentary on the ability of the general public
to "act like grown-ups" and make sensible decisions based on the
perceived risks, when they fall at the first fence like this.


I am perfectly capable of acting like a grown-up by making my own
decisions and not wearing something I know to be useless.


In a nutshell, you just contradicted yourself in one sentence.

If you think they work then wear one,


Actually, I'm more likely to wear the sort of mask the Minister said we
shouldn't - one of those rectangular blue surgical masks. Like the less
comfortable FFP2 dust mask, I have long[1] had a few in my DIY drawer
(for use when sanding lead paint, or cutting chipboard).

but don't come anywhere near me with it on.


If I encounter you on public transport I'd expect almost everyone to be
wearing some sort of face covering. Playing whack-a-mole with me isn't
going to help much.

[1] Some, so long that elastic has perished sigh
--
Roland Perry
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Old June 18th 20, 05:52 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 15:25:36 on Wed, 17 Jun
2020, remarked:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:36:03 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:20:21 on Wed, 17
Jun 2020, MissRiaElaine remarked:

The silly cloth things that people wear walking around Tesco are useless.

On what basis did you reach that conclusion? As long as they're at
least two layers thick, they'll do the job they're intended to do.

Lull people into a false sense of security, yes. They're excellent at
that. I for one am not so easily fooled.


Perhaps the message that they aren't intended to protect the wearer,
hasn't got through?


Of course it hasn't got through. Do you think all those mask wearing
bed wetters who cross the road when someone approaches them do it for
the other person?


I'd expect them to be doing it because they understand that such masks
aren't PPE, and therefore they have to avoid the oncoming person. Or it
could just be that they want to keep 2m away.

This is a wonderful commentary on the ability of the general public to
"act like grown-ups" and make sensible decisions based on the perceived
risks, when they fall at the first fence like this.


Plenty of the general public are making sensible decisions - they're ignoring
the 2m nonsense and not wearing idiotic masks.


Demonstrating that they are unable to act like grown-ups.
--
Roland Perry
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Old June 18th 20, 05:53 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message [email protected], at 12:49:14 on
Wed, 17 Jun 2020, Arthur Conan Doyle remarked:

No they aren't. The majority are DIY dusk-masks, and the vent is to let
the moist air out.


Which kind of puts to rest the argument that masks protect others.


That's just one type of mask, and even so it will help capture the worst
of any coughs or sneezes, and also help stop the wearer touching their
face and transferring virus to the hands, to then spread on hard
surfaces.
--
Roland Perry
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Old June 18th 20, 08:11 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:36:03 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:20:21 on Wed, 17
Jun 2020, MissRiaElaine remarked:

The silly cloth things that people wear walking around Tesco are useless.

On what basis did you reach that conclusion? As long as they're at
least two layers thick, they'll do the job they're intended to do.

Lull people into a false sense of security, yes. They're excellent at
that. I for one am not so easily fooled.


Perhaps the message that they aren't intended to protect the wearer,
hasn't got through?


Of course it hasn't got through. Do you think all those mask wearing bed wetters
who cross the road when someone approaches them do it for the other person?


No, but they may have noticed that you weren't wearing a mask. They crossed
the road for protection from *you*.


This is a wonderful commentary on the ability of the general public to
"act like grown-ups" and make sensible decisions based on the perceived
risks, when they fall at the first fence like this.


Plenty of the general public are making sensible decisions - they're ignoring
the 2m nonsense and not wearing idiotic masks.





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Old June 18th 20, 08:11 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Marland wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/06/2020 13:57, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 13:19:13 +0100, MissRiaElaine
wrote:

On 17/06/2020 13:11, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/06/2020 12:50, tim... wrote:

but they are meant to stop you contaminating someone else

not the other way round

So how are they going to do that, when you are infected and touch your
mask then touch something else..?


An infected person's hands would be contaminated anyway, so they certainly
don't make things worse. But they do greatly reduce the distance that
droplets are projected, which is all they're meant to do.

Possibly. But they still lull people into a false sense of security.

How do you know? And do you mean the wearers, or others in their
vicinity?


Because that's what placebos do. They make people think they're cured,
or protected or whatever.

I cannot deal with people face to face unless I can *see* their face.
And how is a deaf person supposed to lip-read..?

How often do you need to speak to a deaf person?


Irrelevant. And *how dare you* insult a large proportion of the
population..? For all you know, one or more of my family could be deaf,
or my friends. Yes, I do have some, what about you..?

And you haven't answered my question about those of us who cannot relate
to people when we cannot see their faces. It frightens me and I am not
alone. There are many people out there with similar mental health
conditions. Mine is autism, what's yours..?



Impatience, especially with the growing number of people who reckon they
have mental issues of some kind and expect society to work around their
foibles , mental health problems seem to be spreading among the population
quicker than Covid 19 and its become fashionable .
It detracts from the genuine cases who have real issues .

And I’ll, have a Gin and Tonic please.


That's very relevant. During the lockdown, I've discovered the delights of
Fentiman's tonics — they make Fevertree look pedestrian. And Orange
Marmalade Welsh gin!




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