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  #31   Report Post  
Old June 27th 20, 08:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Near miss on Met

Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road


I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)


Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.

  #32   Report Post  
Old June 28th 20, 01:09 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Near miss on Met

Recliner wrote:
Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100, Peter Able wrote:

On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nched-commuter
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

PA


The first 4 slides I ever took with the camera my father-in-law threw
at me 'cos he couldn't work it were of the last electric to steam
handover in 1961.
Extending to the LNWR would have been quite a geographical challenge
with both lines being in steep sided valleys. Lots of higher ground
between.


How long did the trains stop while the locos were swapped? Was it really
as little as four minutes?

It would probably take at least 20 today, if it were allowed at all. Can
you imagine them allowing the crew to be working on live fourth rail
tracks, with steam and dripping water all around?


There is a short clip on you tube which shows part of a change,

https://youtu.be/tIZ1OvYxFFk

You would have thought that with the change taking place in the same spot
every time
the crews would have been well practised at stopping in just the right
place a short gap in the conductor rails could have been left to minimise
any risk to the shunter, instead the arrangement
was protection boarding each side of the conductor rails and wood
infilling between those surrounding the negative rail and the running
rails. When dry I suppose the wood would have been a fairly good insulator
and if thick enough probably was even when the surface was damp.

GH
  #33   Report Post  
Old June 28th 20, 08:50 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 80
Default Near miss on Met

On 27/06/2020 21:33, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road


I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)


Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.


I really don't believe that anyone would confuse which of Finchley Road
or Bank was more likely to be the datum for London. Just in case that
someone thinks that London has shifted West from the City of London.
Ongar to Oxford Street is just about the same track distance as Chesham
to Baker Street. The same comparison applies.

As for meandering, here are the facts. The ratio of track kilometres to
straight-line kilometres is 1.22 for Ongar and 1.32 for Chesham. So
Chesham wins the meander case, too.

As for your impressions, Chesham to Moorgate: tomorrow, typically 74
minutes. Epping to Bank, same time tomorrow, 38 minutes. Would the 10km
Ongar to Epping plus the connect time soak up the other 36 minutes -
plus, for fair comparison, the wait at Chalfont and Latimer off the
Chesham shuttle?

Old "facts", all wrong.

PA

  #34   Report Post  
Old June 28th 20, 09:03 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jul 2019
Posts: 581
Default Near miss on Met

Peter Able wrote:
On 27/06/2020 21:33, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road


I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)


Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.


I really don't believe that anyone would confuse which of Finchley Road
or Bank was more likely to be the datum for London. Just in case that
someone thinks that London has shifted West from the City of London.
Ongar to Oxford Street is just about the same track distance as Chesham
to Baker Street. The same comparison applies.

As for meandering, here are the facts. The ratio of track kilometres to
straight-line kilometres is 1.22 for Ongar and 1.32 for Chesham. So
Chesham wins the meander case, too.

As for your impressions, Chesham to Moorgate: tomorrow, typically 74
minutes. Epping to Bank, same time tomorrow, 38 minutes. Would the 10km
Ongar to Epping plus the connect time soak up the other 36 minutes -
plus, for fair comparison, the wait at Chalfont and Latimer off the
Chesham shuttle?

Old "facts", all wrong.


Interesting, I'd never explicitly made those comparisons.
  #35   Report Post  
Old June 28th 20, 09:48 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2016
Posts: 80
Default Near miss on Met

On 28/06/2020 10:03, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 27/06/2020 21:33, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road

I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)

Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.


I really don't believe that anyone would confuse which of Finchley Road
or Bank was more likely to be the datum for London. Just in case that
someone thinks that London has shifted West from the City of London.
Ongar to Oxford Street is just about the same track distance as Chesham
to Baker Street. The same comparison applies.

As for meandering, here are the facts. The ratio of track kilometres to
straight-line kilometres is 1.22 for Ongar and 1.32 for Chesham. So
Chesham wins the meander case, too.

As for your impressions, Chesham to Moorgate: tomorrow, typically 74
minutes. Epping to Bank, same time tomorrow, 38 minutes. Would the 10km
Ongar to Epping plus the connect time soak up the other 36 minutes -
plus, for fair comparison, the wait at Chalfont and Latimer off the
Chesham shuttle?

Old "facts", all wrong.


Interesting, I'd never explicitly made those comparisons.


Who was it who said,

"question everything but the legitimacy of your own birth" ?

Not a bad life-guide, although it invites the opprobrium of the
ignorant. ( QED impedance! )


  #36   Report Post  
Old June 28th 20, 10:28 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Near miss on Met

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 10:03:42 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Trolleybus wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:49:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:



It would probably take at least 20 today, if it were allowed at all. Can
you imagine them allowing the crew to be working on live fourth rail
tracks, with steam and dripping water all around?


I went to a Steam on the Met not THAT long ago. They dropped a piece
of old carpet over the centre rail when they went between for
coupling. They had no need to go anywhere near the third rail.


Would a wet carpet provide effective insulation against 210V?


They also avoided touching it! I agree that it looks like HSE theatre
but the carpet would be handy if you dropped a tool, I suppose.
  #37   Report Post  
Old June 28th 20, 10:42 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Near miss on Met

On 27/06/2020 11:03, Recliner wrote:
Trolleybus wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 09:49:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:



It would probably take at least 20 today, if it were allowed at all. Can
you imagine them allowing the crew to be working on live fourth rail
tracks, with steam and dripping water all around?


I went to a Steam on the Met not THAT long ago. They dropped a piece
of old carpet over the centre rail when they went between for
coupling. They had no need to go anywhere near the third rail.


Would a wet carpet provide effective insulation against 210V?

A rubber-based mat could look like old carpet.

PA
  #38   Report Post  
Old June 28th 20, 10:56 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2016
Posts: 80
Default Near miss on Met

On 26/06/2020 12:23, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.


IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.



Yes. And, oddly enough, it's still the datum point for the whole LU
network.


Hardly odd, just lateral thinking that saved a lot of money.

PA

  #39   Report Post  
Old June 30th 20, 09:01 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 110
Default Near miss on Met

In article , Trolleybus
writes
It would probably take at least 20 today, if it were allowed at all. Can
you imagine them allowing the crew to be working on live fourth rail
tracks, with steam and dripping water all around?


I went to a Steam on the Met not THAT long ago. They dropped a piece
of old carpet over the centre rail when they went between for
coupling. They had no need to go anywhere near the third rail.


Last time I watched them do that at Steam on the Met (some years ago)
they had a shaped piece of plastic with a handle that they could put
over the negative rail (don't recall if it reached the positive) to
protect themselves.

--
Clive D.W. Feather
  #40   Report Post  
Old July 2nd 20, 08:19 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 110
Default Near miss on Met

In article , Peter
Able writes
IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.

That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


As already discussed, it depends on what you count as "Central London".

My instinct is to use the Circle Line as the point to measure to. On
that basis (all numbers rounded):

Brill: 81 km
Verney Jn: 80 km
Quainton Rd: 70 km
Aylesbury: 60 km
Chesham: 42 km
Amersham: 38 km
Ongar: 37 km
Windsor & Eton Central: 35 km
Epping: 27 km
Uxbridge via Acton: 27 km
Uxbridge: 26 km
Watford Jn: 26 km
Watford Market via Finchley: 26 km
Upminster: 24 km
Heathrow: 23 km
Bushey Heath via Finchley: 20 km
Ealing Broadway: 20 km
High Barnet: 16 km
Edgware via Finchley: 16 km
Edgware via Golders Green: 14 km
Morden: 14 km
Mill Hill East: 11 km

--
Clive D.W. Feather


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