On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !

PA

Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?

On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road

Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)

Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road

I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)

Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.

On 27/06/2020 21:33, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road

I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)

Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.


I really don't believe that anyone would confuse which of Finchley Road
or Bank was more likely to be the datum for London. Just in case that
someone thinks that London has shifted West from the City of London.
Ongar to Oxford Street is just about the same track distance as Chesham
to Baker Street. The same comparison applies.

As for meandering, here are the facts. The ratio of track kilometres to
straight-line kilometres is 1.22 for Ongar and 1.32 for Chesham. So
Chesham wins the meander case, too.

As for your impressions, Chesham to Moorgate: tomorrow, typically 74
minutes. Epping to Bank, same time tomorrow, 38 minutes. Would the 10km
Ongar to Epping plus the connect time soak up the other 36 minutes -
plus, for fair comparison, the wait at Chalfont and Latimer off the
Chesham shuttle?

Old "facts", all wrong.

PA

Peter Able wrote:
On 27/06/2020 21:33, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road

I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)

Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.


I really don't believe that anyone would confuse which of Finchley Road
or Bank was more likely to be the datum for London. Just in case that
someone thinks that London has shifted West from the City of London.
Ongar to Oxford Street is just about the same track distance as Chesham
to Baker Street. The same comparison applies.

As for meandering, here are the facts. The ratio of track kilometres to
straight-line kilometres is 1.22 for Ongar and 1.32 for Chesham. So
Chesham wins the meander case, too.

As for your impressions, Chesham to Moorgate: tomorrow, typically 74
minutes. Epping to Bank, same time tomorrow, 38 minutes. Would the 10km
Ongar to Epping plus the connect time soak up the other 36 minutes -
plus, for fair comparison, the wait at Chalfont and Latimer off the
Chesham shuttle?

Old "facts", all wrong.


Interesting, I'd never explicitly made those comparisons.

On 28/06/2020 10:03, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 27/06/2020 21:33, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 20:27, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 26/06/2020 12:18, wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 18:28:36 +0100
Peter Able wrote:
On 25/06/2020 17:40, Guy Gorton wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 16:19:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Guy Gorton wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:43:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Don't know if this has already been posted:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...unched-commute
r
-train-going-wrong-way-London-Tube-line-nearly-crashes.html

How on earth can this happen? Surely the chiltern driver knew what side
of the
line he was on? And why didn't the tripcocks work or have they been
removed
from that section of line now?

A lot of interesting history of the line at
http://www.metroland.org.uk/cheshamflyer/


I think that, thanks to the misleading Tube map, a lot of people wrongly
think that Amersham is the most distant LU destination, when it's actually
Chesham.


Certainly since the Met stopped going to Aylesbury. (Change loco from
electric to steam at Rickmansworth).

Guy Gorton


Which was well before the present majority were born !

I know it was probably only a threat, but how different it might be now
if the Chesham line had extended on to the LNWR.

IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.


That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !


Was it not the most distant station between 1961 and 1994?


Unless I'm misreading http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/

Ongar to Bank: 37.77km - 0

37.77km from Chesham is just about Finchley Road

I suppose it depends on which point in London you regard as the centre of
the LU network? If Baker St, then Ongar would be most distant but Chesham
probably would if you selected Farringdon (as the original City terminus of
the Met). But I must say it's closer than I expected.


Of course, those as track kilometres, but Google Maps gives the direct
distances from the City of London as Chesham 42km, Ongar 31km.

PA (an engineer, not a cartographer!)

Yes, the Ongar rail route is much more meandering, so you covered less
geographic distance per track km. It seemed further than Chesham, as it was
slower and always seemed very remote for the short time it was part of the
LU network.


I really don't believe that anyone would confuse which of Finchley Road
or Bank was more likely to be the datum for London. Just in case that
someone thinks that London has shifted West from the City of London.
Ongar to Oxford Street is just about the same track distance as Chesham
to Baker Street. The same comparison applies.

As for meandering, here are the facts. The ratio of track kilometres to
straight-line kilometres is 1.22 for Ongar and 1.32 for Chesham. So
Chesham wins the meander case, too.

As for your impressions, Chesham to Moorgate: tomorrow, typically 74
minutes. Epping to Bank, same time tomorrow, 38 minutes. Would the 10km
Ongar to Epping plus the connect time soak up the other 36 minutes -
plus, for fair comparison, the wait at Chalfont and Latimer off the
Chesham shuttle?

Old "facts", all wrong.


Interesting, I'd never explicitly made those comparisons.


Who was it who said,

"question everything but the legitimacy of your own birth" ?

Not a bad life-guide, although it invites the opprobrium of the
ignorant. ( QED impedance! )

In article , Peter
Able writes
IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.
That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !

As already discussed, it depends on what you count as "Central London".

My instinct is to use the Circle Line as the point to measure to. On
that basis (all numbers rounded):

Brill: 81 km
Verney Jn: 80 km
Quainton Rd: 70 km
Aylesbury: 60 km
Chesham: 42 km
Amersham: 38 km
Ongar: 37 km
Windsor & Eton Central: 35 km
Epping: 27 km
Uxbridge via Acton: 27 km
Uxbridge: 26 km
Watford Jn: 26 km
Watford Market via Finchley: 26 km
Upminster: 24 km
Heathrow: 23 km
Bushey Heath via Finchley: 20 km
Ealing Broadway: 20 km
High Barnet: 16 km
Edgware via Finchley: 16 km
Edgware via Golders Green: 14 km
Morden: 14 km
Mill Hill East: 11 km

--
Clive D.W. Feather

Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article , Peter
Able writes
IIRC Ongar used to be the tube station most distant from central london and
that only closed in 94.
That was my first instinct, but from Clive's website I see that I was
wrong !

As already discussed, it depends on what you count as "Central London".

My instinct is to use the Circle Line as the point to measure to. On
that basis (all numbers rounded):

Brill: 81 km
Verney Jn: 80 km
Quainton Rd: 70 km
Aylesbury: 60 km
Chesham: 42 km
Amersham: 38 km
Ongar: 37 km
Windsor & Eton Central: 35 km
Epping: 27 km
Uxbridge via Acton: 27 km
Uxbridge: 26 km
Watford Jn: 26 km
Watford Market via Finchley: 26 km
Upminster: 24 km
Heathrow: 23 km
Bushey Heath via Finchley: 20 km
Ealing Broadway: 20 km
High Barnet: 16 km
Edgware via Finchley: 16 km
Edgware via Golders Green: 14 km
Morden: 14 km
Mill Hill East: 11 km


Some more surprises the I'd always assumed that Verney Junction was
further than Brill. And I'm surprised that Upminster is only slightly
further than Heathrow (T5, I presume?). Windsor and Eton Central is also
much closer than I'd guessed.

In article , Recliner
writes
Some more surprises the I'd always assumed that Verney Junction was
further than Brill.

Verney Junction would be 127.83 km from Ongar and Brill would be 128.3
km.

And I'm surprised that Upminster is only slightly
further than Heathrow (T5, I presume?).

Upminster to Minories Jn is 36.43-12.19 = 24.24 km.
Gloucester Road to Heathrow T5 is 69.40-45.42 = 23.98 km.

I forgot about T4. It's at 71.53 (so more than 2 km further than T5) but
that's via T2&3. Going direct from Hatton Cross it would be at 66.83.

Windsor and Eton Central is also
much closer than I'd guessed.

25.01 km beyond Ealing Broadway.

--
Clive D.W. Feather