DLR to Thamesmead
 

wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:23:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk

I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.

No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City
much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2
(which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow.

IME people rarely get off one train to go and wait for another going to the
same destination especially if they have a seat. By the time they've walked
down to the crossrail platforms and waited for a train the DLR train would
probably already be at or near canary wharf or poplar (which is a 5 min walk).

No way. The lines are right alongside each other on the surface, and it
would only take a couple of minutes to cross over. They're then only three
minutes away from Canary Wharf and 10 from Liverpool St.

If they're going to Bank maybe they would depending whether Liverpool Street
is close enough to where they're going.

The Crossrail station also serves Moorgate, and then Barbican/Farringdon.
That's effectively four stations in the City.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 05/08/2020 09:23, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.

No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station.

It's not a cross-platform interchange, even though it would not have
taken much effort to make it one, so I don't think interchange there is
viewed as that important.


Yes, it's a pity it's not cross-platform (ditto at Abbey Wood, where the
interchange *is* important and was originally planned to be
cross-platform). It's probably not important while the DLR only gets as far
as Beckton, but that could change if the DLR gets a further eastern
extension.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

wrote in message ...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message ...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.


not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On 05/08/2020 13:02, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

And Clockwork Orange fans!

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Legendary Pink Dots - 1984 - Faces In The Fire

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:30:28 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 05/08/2020 13:02, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

And Clockwork Orange fans!

Yes, though I suspect that the backdrops from that film will have been
demolished by then (if they haven't already?).

The impression I have is that they basically plan to knock down the
ugly concrete towers and start again.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 09:24:51 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:23:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking

a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then
tube/walk

I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.

No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City
much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2
(which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow.

IME people rarely get off one train to go and wait for another going to the
same destination especially if they have a seat. By the time they've walked
down to the crossrail platforms and waited for a train the DLR train would
probably already be at or near canary wharf or poplar (which is a 5 min
walk).

No way. The lines are right alongside each other on the surface, and it
would only take a couple of minutes to cross over. They're then only three
minutes away from Canary Wharf and 10 from Liverpool St.

3 minutes once a train bothers to show up (service frequencies are a nice
work of fiction whenever NR is involved which is why the Overground can't be
relied on) which may be packed anyway. I really doubt many people would bother.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On 05/08/2020 11:44, tim... wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to




Not heard of gentrification?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 05/08/2020 11:44, tim... wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to




Not heard of gentrification?


I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Not heard of gentrification?


I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.

Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now, albeit for a certain meaning of
"desirable". Living in an overpriced box 20 floors up looking at skyscrapers
is not my idea of it but it certainly works for some people.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot

The point is that the area already has a large amount of housing on it, and
it's got the reputation of not attracting the most desirable of neighbours.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 05/08/2020 11:44, tim... wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to




Not heard of gentrification?

of course

But it's going to take decades to manage that at Thamesmead

And I think London's run out of places to move the undesirable tenants to

DLR to Thamesmead
 

wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Not heard of gentrification?


I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.

Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now, albeit for a certain meaning of
"desirable". Living in an overpriced box 20 floors up looking at skyscrapers
is not my idea of it but it certainly works for some people.

Yes, although I wonder how many of those glassy apartments are occupied
seven days a week? Some are just investment properties, perhaps used by
their foreign owners for a couple of months a year (or maybe just left
empty, 'safety boxes in the sky'). Many others are owned by the richer
Canary Wharf workers (eg, dealers or senior executives) and used as
pied-Ã*-terres for maybe three or four nights a week. Their real family
homes are in leafier places, many miles away.

Thamesmead is far enough away that homes there might actually be lived in.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

I think that's the idea.


not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot\

You missed the point, so, yes you are.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

wrote in message ...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Not heard of gentrification?


I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.

Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now,

Canary Wharf, didn't have 40,000 people to find new homes for before
re-development

Most of the redeveloped land in the dock was disused commercial land

DLR to Thamesmead
 

tim... wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 05/08/2020 11:44, tim... wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to




Not heard of gentrification?

of course

But it's going to take decades to manage that at Thamesmead

And I think London's run out of places to move the undesirable tenants to


FWIW, this is the plan:
https://www.thamesmeadnow.org.uk/the-plan/

DLR to Thamesmead
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not.
The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the
tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

I think that's the idea.

Hum,

seems ambitious to me, to move 40,000 people first

of course if you knock just one block down and leave 39,000 low rent people
as neighbours the only tenants you are going to get for those new properties
are people who look the people next door

You can't gentrify an area by building a single high quality property next
to dozens of low quality properties

It's been tried before, and it usually doesn't work

not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot\

You missed the point,

I missed something that you didn't say

so, yes you are.

that makes me uninformed, not an idiot

DLR to Thamesmead
 

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:44:00 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote:

Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.

I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where
an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not.
The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the
tube.

Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up
route
(covid notwithstanding).

Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?

City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter
hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.

only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.

there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?

I think that's the idea.

Hum,

seems ambitious to me, to move 40,000 people first

of course if you knock just one block down and leave 39,000 low rent people
as neighbours the only tenants you are going to get for those new properties
are people who look the people next door

The plan to build on more land in the area, as you would have seen if you
read the plan I posted.

For example, Southmere Village:
https://www.thamesmeadnow.org.uk/the-plan/growth-and-regeneration/south-thamesmead/southmere-village/



You can't gentrify an area by building a single high quality property next
to dozens of low quality properties

It's been tried before, and it usually doesn't work

Agreed, they would need to raise the tone of the whole area. You can't sell
upmarket houses next to a rough council estate.


not something the average city worker aspires to

It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).

I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot

You missed the point,

I missed something that you didn't say

so, yes you are.

that makes me uninformed, not an idiot

Your choice of word, not mine.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:


This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/

I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.

Returning to your question, I really can't see any chance of this
happening. The Thamesmead plan references Abbey Wood, but not the DLR.
And if an existing line were to be extended across the Thames, I'd
have thought it would be the Goblin.

It's far more likely that Thamesmead with just get a better bus
service to Abbey Wood (smart electric buses, segregated bus lanes,
traffic light priority, etc). Not only is this vastly cheaper, but it
can serve a wider area, with stops around the estate, rather than just
having one station. The bus network can also be adapted as new
developments are occupied.

For either the DLR or the Goblin to be extended across the Thames
would almost certainly need a substantial contribution from the
property developer. But that is Peabody, which is creating affordable
homes, not someone like Berkeley Homes.

DLR to Thamesmead
 

On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 17:13:50 +0100, Graham Harrison
wrote:

Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.

But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.

Beckton please!

DLR to Thamesmead
 

"London calling" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 17:13:50 +0100, Graham Harrison
wrote:

Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide
better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.

But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.

Beckton please!

That's be 1 and 6 sir