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DLR to Thamesmead
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Zero 7 - 2006 - The Garden |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment area. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 01/08/2020 15:29, Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment area. Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help matters much. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
DLR to Thamesmead
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/08/2020 15:29, Recliner wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment area. Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help matters much. Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded Jubilee. |
DLR to Thamesmead
"Recliner" wrote in message ... On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. that's irrelevant It's the loading on the part after the potential split that matters The question is "can half of the Stratford trains be diverted to the new destination without creating overcrowding" |
DLR to Thamesmead
tim... wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. that's irrelevant It's the loading on the part after the potential split that matters The question is "can half of the Stratford trains be diverted to the new destination without creating overcrowding" It would make the overcrowding worse on both the core and the Stratford branch. It's a non-starter. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. Will we actually need any extension in the future? |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. What other alternatives are there? Extend Barking Riverside under the river? Take Crossrail into Thamesmead? Some kind of high capacity local feeder system (aka tramway)? |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 01/08/2020 15:29, Recliner wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment area. Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help matters much. Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded Jubilee. But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where interchanges do exist they aren't perfect. I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would change if a Thamesmead extension happened. |
DLR to Thamesmead
Graham Harrison wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. What other alternatives are there? Extend Barking Riverside under the river? Take Crossrail into Thamesmead? Some kind of high capacity local feeder system (aka tramway)? Yes, I think a north/south tram network centred on Abbey Wood might be a much cheaper, acceptable alternative. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 02/08/2020 17:11, Graham Harrison wrote:
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. What other alternatives are there? Extend Barking Riverside under the river? Take Crossrail into Thamesmead? Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to have gone to Thamesmead in the first place. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
DLR to Thamesmead
Graham Harrison wrote:
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 01/08/2020 15:29, Recliner wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment area. Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help matters much. Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded Jubilee. But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where interchanges do exist they aren't perfect. I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would change if a Thamesmead extension happened. The Thamesmead branch woukd take years of planning and building. Recasting the timetable takes months. Clearly a major new branch would change a lot. |
DLR to Thamesmead
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 02/08/2020 17:11, Graham Harrison wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. What other alternatives are there? Extend Barking Riverside under the river? Take Crossrail into Thamesmead? Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to have gone to Thamesmead in the first place. Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the Olympics. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 16:35:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Graham Harrison wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 01/08/2020 15:29, Recliner wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment area. Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help matters much. Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded Jubilee. But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where interchanges do exist they aren't perfect. I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would change if a Thamesmead extension happened. The Thamesmead branch woukd take years of planning and building. Recasting the timetable takes months. Clearly a major new branch would change a lot. You see, I read your previous post as extolling the virtues of all the current interchanges which would be available to passengers on trains from Becton today (much less Thamesmead). |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 02/08/2020 17:35, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote: On 02/08/2020 17:11, Graham Harrison wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. What other alternatives are there? Extend Barking Riverside under the river? Take Crossrail into Thamesmead? Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to have gone to Thamesmead in the first place. Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the Olympics. The rerouting was long before the Olympics were a consideration. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
DLR to Thamesmead
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 02/08/2020 17:35, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 02/08/2020 17:11, Graham Harrison wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. What other alternatives are there? Extend Barking Riverside under the river? Take Crossrail into Thamesmead? Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to have gone to Thamesmead in the first place. Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the Olympics. The rerouting was long before the Olympics were a consideration. Yes, but the Olympics triggered the redevelopment of the area to the northwest of Stratford station. |
DLR to Thamesmead
wrote:
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections. The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine network. But, as far as Thamesmead is concerned, I think it would be much better served by a tram route to Abbey Wood. That would provide much more capacity and speed into central London, both via the classic route into London Bridge and Crossrail. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 03/08/2020 01:03, Recliner wrote:
But, as far as Thamesmead is concerned, I think it would be much better served by a tram route to Abbey Wood. That would provide much more capacity and speed into central London, both via the classic route into London Bridge and Crossrail. I never understood why the justification for bringing Crossrail to Abbey Wood was to serve Thamesmead, when Crossrail could have skipped Woolwich and gone to Thamesmead before joining the North Kent line at Belvedere. And now they're talking about extending the DLR because they've suddenly noticed that Crossrail at Abbey Wood doesn't serve Thamesmead. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Girls At Our Best! - 1980 - Getting Nowhere Fast |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 2020-08-02 21:17:18 +0000, Graeme Wall said:
On 02/08/2020 17:35, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 02/08/2020 17:11, Graham Harrison wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...smead-advance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. What other alternatives are there? Extend Barking Riverside under the river? Take Crossrail into Thamesmead? Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to have gone to Thamesmead in the first place. Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the Olympics. The rerouting was long before the Olympics were a consideration. While the Olympics were the vehicle by which the redevelopment happened, at the time the JLE was in planning, it was clear that redevelopment in some format would take place, and providing better transport links was intended to facilitate this (along with the white elephant international station at Stratford). Robin |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 00:03:09 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections. The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine network. I said sections, plural. But Bank is the main one and when I last used it it had trains heading off the Woolwich - presumably for the airport - which were virtually empty and the ones to canary wharf which were rammed. Plus the occasional train to and from tower gateway. |
DLR to Thamesmead
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DLR to Thamesmead
On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:03:39 +0100
Recliner wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:01:53 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 00:03:09 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections. The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine network. I said sections, plural. But Bank is the main one and when I last used it it had trains heading off the Woolwich - presumably for the airport - which were virtually empty and the ones to canary wharf which were rammed. Plus the occasional train to and from tower gateway. People coming from any years-in-the-future DLR Thamesmead branch will have the opportunity to change to Crossrail at Custom House. That will get them into Canary Wharf or the City much faster than staying on the DLR all the way. So they mostly won't be using the Bank branch of the DLR. Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster. |
DLR to Thamesmead
wrote:
On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:03:39 +0100 Recliner wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:01:53 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 00:03:09 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections. The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine network. I said sections, plural. But Bank is the main one and when I last used it it had trains heading off the Woolwich - presumably for the airport - which were virtually empty and the ones to canary wharf which were rammed. Plus the occasional train to and from tower gateway. People coming from any years-in-the-future DLR Thamesmead branch will have the opportunity to change to Crossrail at Custom House. That will get them into Canary Wharf or the City much faster than staying on the DLR all the way. So they mostly won't be using the Bank branch of the DLR. Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster. It would not be a disaster, and I'm sure we'll see more DLR branches. But I think there are better ways of serving a major new Thamesmead development, particularly trams to Abbey Wood. |
DLR to Thamesmead
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DLR to Thamesmead
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Basil Jet wrote: On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote: Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster. I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube. Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route (covid notwithstanding). If the DLR wanted to improve their service closing west india quay and heron quay stations would be a good place to start. The latter having precisely zero footfall even in the rush hour when I used the service and the former not much more plus its only a 3 min walk from canary wharf station anyway. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 19:46:35 +0100, Graham Harrison
wrote: On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 16:35:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Graham Harrison wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 01/08/2020 15:29, Recliner wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 01/08/2020 08:31, wrote: On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if this project is even alive now. There's a map at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...o-thamesmead-a dvance/ I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper. IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line. Jubilee train = 875 passengers DLR triple train = 852 passengers I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet. Or maybe you meant something else? Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment area. Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help matters much. Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded Jubilee. But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where interchanges do exist they aren't perfect. I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would change if a Thamesmead extension happened. The Thamesmead branch woukd take years of planning and building. Recasting the timetable takes months. Clearly a major new branch would change a lot. You see, I read your previous post as extolling the virtues of all the current interchanges which would be available to passengers on trains from Becton today (much less Thamesmead). Even with the current timetable, why wouldn't they simply change to Crossrail at Custom House? That would provide a much faster route to Canary Wharf, the City, the West End and Heathrow. Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange possibilities? That route provides interchanges to the District, Hammersmith and Central lines, as well as the Jubilee at Canning Town. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote: Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster. I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube. Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route (covid notwithstanding). Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to Bank, even if there were direct trains? If the DLR wanted to improve their service closing west india quay and heron quay stations would be a good place to start. The latter having precisely zero footfall even in the rush hour when I used the service and the former not much more plus its only a 3 min walk from canary wharf station anyway. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 04/08/2020 12:47, Recliner wrote:
Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange possibilities? I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
DLR to Thamesmead
Robin wrote:
On 04/08/2020 12:47, Recliner wrote: Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange possibilities? I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway. Has it always been that way? |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 04/08/2020 22:02, Recliner wrote:
Robin wrote: On 04/08/2020 12:47, Recliner wrote: Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange possibilities? I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway. Has it always been that way? Pass. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
DLR to Thamesmead
Robin wrote:
On 04/08/2020 22:02, Recliner wrote: Robin wrote: On 04/08/2020 12:47, Recliner wrote: Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange possibilities? I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway. Has it always been that way? Pass. I had the impression that the services previously alternated between the two destinations, but I could be wrong. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 05/08/2020 00:02, Recliner wrote:
Robin wrote: On 04/08/2020 22:02, Recliner wrote: Robin wrote: On 04/08/2020 12:47, Recliner wrote: Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange possibilities? I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway. Has it always been that way? Pass. I had the impression that the services previously alternated between the two destinations, but I could be wrong. This 2016 map... https://mapa-metro.com/mapas/DLR%20L...ht_railway.jpg .... suggests that you are correct. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to The Legendary Pink Dots - 1984 - Faces In The Fire |
DLR to Thamesmead
Basil Jet wrote:
On 05/08/2020 00:02, Recliner wrote: Robin wrote: On 04/08/2020 22:02, Recliner wrote: Robin wrote: On 04/08/2020 12:47, Recliner wrote: Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange possibilities? I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway. Has it always been that way? Pass. I had the impression that the services previously alternated between the two destinations, but I could be wrong. This 2016 map... https://mapa-metro.com/mapas/DLR%20L...ht_railway.jpg ... suggests that you are correct. Thanks. The DLR does have a very flexible network, with good, grade-separated options at Canning Town and Poplar. As its catchment areas develop, it's easy to change the service patterns to meet demand. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Recliner wrote: On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote: Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster. I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube. Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route (covid notwithstanding). Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to Bank, even if there were direct trains? City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more popular. |
DLR to Thamesmead
wrote:
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100 Recliner wrote: On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 07:49:13 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: On 03/08/2020 16:00, wrote: Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster. I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube. Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route (covid notwithstanding). Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to Bank, even if there were direct trains? City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more popular. No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2 (which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:23:36 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more popular. No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2 (which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow. IME people rarely get off one train to go and wait for another going to the same destination especially if they have a seat. By the time they've walked down to the crossrail platforms and waited for a train the DLR train would probably already be at or near canary wharf or poplar (which is a 5 min walk). If they're going to Bank maybe they would depending whether Liverpool Street is close enough to where they're going. |
DLR to Thamesmead
On 05/08/2020 09:23, Recliner wrote:
wrote: On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100 Recliner wrote: Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to Bank, even if there were direct trains? City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more popular. No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a convenient interchange station. It's not a cross-platform interchange, even though it would not have taken much effort to make it one, so I don't think interchange there is viewed as that important. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to The Legendary Pink Dots - 1984 - Faces In The Fire |
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