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Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may bedemolished
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...shed-1-6733534 -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to Ariel Sharratt & Mathias Kom - 2015 - Don't Believe The Hyperreal |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may bedemolished
On 30/08/2020 23:48, Basil Jet wrote:
https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...shed-1-6733534 Doesn't appear to be architecturally distinguished though a nice example of a brick built arch bridge. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100
Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...ould-be-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch,may be demolished
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 30/08/2020 23:48, Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...shed-1-6733534 Doesn't appear to be architecturally distinguished though a nice example of a brick built arch bridge. Surprised it hasn’t been absolutely covered in Graffiti like others along the Parkland walk , a few years ago I took the W3 bus from F/Park to Ally Pally and it passed under one of the bridges on the route and it looked like the hanging gardens of Babylon due to Ivy etc and while at least it looked better than graffiti probably wasn’t doing the structure much good. Looking at street view (on an I pad so no historical option) I cannot identify it now so must have been tidied up, at least one bridge has already been replaced by a much lighter structure to retain the footpath. GH |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On 31/08/2020 09:46, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...ould-be-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. So a couple of hundred, at most, commuters a day compared to the white elephant carrying tens of thousands. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:05 +0100
Scott wrote: On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:46:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...-could-be-demo li shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. Which line? I believe the original 'Northern Heights' project was to extend the Northern Line to Alexandra Palace. Are you looking at a branch or just a shuttle from the high level station at Highgate? If the latter, could it be trams rather than trains? Yes, a shuttle to highgate high level. Taking the line back to finsbury park would be next to impossible now and the short section from muswell hill to the palace has a school built on the trackbed so thats a non starter. I guess you could use a tram but given there's a large northern line depot at highgate it would probably be easier just to use a northern line train, perhaps 3 cars only. Is the project to build a hotel at Alexandra Palace still live? Maybe the developers could contribute. Beats me, not heard about it. I don't live in that area but I do visit quite often. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
In message , writes
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b e-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway, part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the, then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station A feasibility study was turned down by those who said it would ruin the Parkland Walk -- Bryan Morris |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:40:03 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote: On 31/08/2020 09:46, wrote: On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...ould-be-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. So a couple of hundred, at most, commuters a day compared to the white elephant carrying tens of thousands. A couple of hundred? You've never been to muswell hill have you. And crossrail sure as hell won't be carrying 10s of thousands anytime soon even if it does open next year which it probably won't. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100
Bryan Morris wrote: In message , writes On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b e-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway, part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the, then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of maintaining specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there. A feasibility study was turned down by those who said it would ruin the Parkland Walk There's always a few nimbies. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:40:03 +0100 Graeme Wall wrote: On 31/08/2020 09:46, wrote: On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...ould-be-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. So a couple of hundred, at most, commuters a day compared to the white elephant carrying tens of thousands. A couple of hundred? You've never been to muswell hill have you. And crossrail sure as hell won't be carrying 10s of thousands anytime soon even if it does open next year which it probably won't. It definitely won't open in 2021, and won't fully open till at least 2023. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 15:30:34 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:40:03 +0100 Graeme Wall wrote: On 31/08/2020 09:46, wrote: On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...ould-be-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. So a couple of hundred, at most, commuters a day compared to the white elephant carrying tens of thousands. A couple of hundred? You've never been to muswell hill have you. And crossrail sure as hell won't be carrying 10s of thousands anytime soon even if it does open next year which it probably won't. It definitely won't open in 2021, and won't fully open till at least 2023. This is beyond incompetant management and unrealistic tendering timescales. I wonder if there's been some active sabotage, supplies theft or some other criminal activities going on down at site level that they don't want the public to know about. These are huge sites and even with Covid workers should be able to socially distance quite adequately to get on with the job. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
In message , writes
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100 Bryan Morris wrote: In message , writes On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b e-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway, part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the, then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of maintaining specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there. As I said, at the time, it would have been fully funded by the EEC. The stock would have been driverless and could run if required 24/7 . It was capable to be set up by demand, from one carriage to multi. It could be run on rails or be suspended. I arranged for a working model to be displayed to show the possibilities. My concern at the time, when Alexandra Palace was being rebuilt, (it had largely been destroyed in a fire in the 1960s when it was run by the GLC) was lack of mass public transport there with all the things that were planned.Plus access to the tube at Highgate from places like Muswell Hill and Crouch End A feasibility study was turned down by those who said it would ruin the Parkland Walk There's always a few nimbies. All very well saying "just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from Highgate depot" like the proposed widening of Archway Road at the same time, with nimbie demonstrations at public inquiry after public enquiry there were more than a few nimbies, and they could be aggressive. -- Bryan Morris |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , writes On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100 Bryan Morris wrote: In message , writes On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b e-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway, part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the, then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of maintaining specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there. As I said, at the time, it would have been fully funded by the EEC. The stock would have been driverless and could run if required 24/7 . It was capable to be set up by demand, from one carriage to multi. It could be run on rails or be suspended. I arranged for a working model to be displayed to show the possibilities. My concern at the time, when Alexandra Palace was being rebuilt, (it had largely been destroyed in a fire in the 1960s when it was run by the GLC) Which fire was that? I know of the large one in 1980 because the Great British Beer Festival was held there and despite the fire went ahead in marquees in the grounds . The photo of the Palace burning at night made a good cover for the programme which I still have, nowadays there would probably screams of indignation at such a photo being used in that manner. The building at the time was no longer owned by the GLC but Haringey the council you were a member of so trying to blame the GLC is either political point scoring or just poor memory. Your idea no doubt made with the best of intentions sounds out of the same mould as the monorails that by now should have been running for a couple of decades now around Southampton and Portsmouth. These ideas never seem to get beyond the artist impression in the local rag * as when looked at from a practical point of view they become anything but. The design you mention sounds like an adapted alpine ski lift. GH |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
In message , Marland
writes Bryan Morris wrote: In message , writes On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100 Bryan Morris wrote: In message , writes On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b e-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway, part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the, then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of maintaining specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there. As I said, at the time, it would have been fully funded by the EEC. The stock would have been driverless and could run if required 24/7 . It was capable to be set up by demand, from one carriage to multi. It could be run on rails or be suspended. I arranged for a working model to be displayed to show the possibilities. My concern at the time, when Alexandra Palace was being rebuilt, (it had largely been destroyed in a fire in the 1960s when it was run by the GLC) Which fire was that? I know of the large one in 1980 because the Great British Beer Festival was held there and despite the fire went ahead in marquees in the grounds . The photo of the Palace burning at night made a good cover for the programme which I still have, nowadays there would probably screams of indignation at such a photo being used in that manner. The building at the time was no longer owned by the GLC but Haringey the council you were a member of so trying to blame the GLC is either political point scoring or just poor memory. Not political point scoring. Was just explaining, to those not aware, that Haringey took over the trusteeship of Alexandra Palace from the GLC in 1980 and then later in 1980 following the major fire (yes the 1960's was much smaller) and Haringey made these grandiose rebuilding plans (and overspent by £30million said by the attorney-general in 1991 to be illegal). It was supposed to be financed by the £8m dowry from the GLC and £42m insurance claim My concern at the time was with these plans, (which at the time included a hotel) that there was no adequate public transport. Hence my post. Your idea no doubt made with the best of intentions sounds out of the same mould as the monorails that by now should have been running for a couple of decades now around Southampton and Portsmouth. These ideas never seem to get beyond the artist impression in the local rag * as when looked at from a practical point of view they become anything but. The design you mention sounds like an adapted alpine ski lift. GH I suppose it was, but a feasibility study was rejected by a majority by the committee for other reasons. -- Bryan Morris |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:05 +0100 Scott wrote: On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 08:46:10 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...-could-be-demo li shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. Which line? I believe the original 'Northern Heights' project was to extend the Northern Line to Alexandra Palace. Are you looking at a branch or just a shuttle from the high level station at Highgate? If the latter, could it be trams rather than trains? Yes, a shuttle to highgate high level. Taking the line back to finsbury park would be next to impossible now and the short section from muswell hill to the palace has a school built on the trackbed so thats a non starter. I guess you could use a tram but given there's a large northern line depot at highgate it would probably be easier just to use a northern line train, perhaps 3 cars only. Although they're formed of two half-sets (DM-T-UNDM), I don't think any double-ended half sets exist, so there are no three-car trains to run. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:58:48 +0100 Bryan Morris wrote: In message , writes On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 23:48:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/herit...bridge-could-b e-demoli shed-1-6733534 Never mind demolishing it - they should reinstate the line to muswell hill. All the trackbed is still in situ from there back to highgate sidings and putting track back down and restoring highgate high level station would cost buttons in comparisons to white elephants such as crossrail. I'm pretty sure a shuttle service to and from highgate to catch the main northern line would be pretty popular given the current alternative is the bus to wood green. It's over 40 years since, as a Haringey Councillor and member of the Alexander Palace and park committee I proposed a unique light railway, part at ground level, part suspended on the old line. Funded by the, then, EEC and running from Highgate high level station I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of maintaining specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there. Are the people in the motor vehicles all going to the same place as the train would take them? Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Boltar is right. Muswell Hill will generate far more than
a few hundred passengers a day. Like Roehampton and Collier Row, it is a substantial suburban areas with no rail service at all. Residents have to travel first to Highgate, Crouch Hill or Finsbury Park to catch a train. A local railway station would be very welcome to denizens of Muswell Hill. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 17:46:41 +0100
Bryan Morris wrote: In message , writes There's always a few nimbies. All very well saying "just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from Highgate depot" like the proposed widening of Archway Road at the same time, with nimbie demonstrations at public inquiry after public enquiry there were more than a few nimbies, and they could be aggressive. To be fair , if you go into politics you have to be prepared to deal with these sorts of people. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 07:12:50 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:05 +0100 would probably be easier just to use a northern line train, perhaps 3 cars only. Although they're formed of two half-sets (DM-T-UNDM), I don't think any double-ended half sets exist, so there are no three-car trains to run. Ah, didn't know that. Well I'm sure they could sort something out but its all academic anyway as the line would never have happened anyway and certainly not now with the state of TfLs finances. Its a good thing the battersea extension is almost done or that would probably have got the chop but I suspect the bakerloo extension is now dead in the water. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 07:12:51 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: I'm not convinced a light railway/tram with all the extra expense of maintaining specialised rolling stock and its own depot would be cheaper than just laying a couple of extra miles of track out from highgate depot, but either way the area needs a rail link as during (normal) rush hours its just gridlock around there. Are the people in the motor vehicles all going to the same place as the train would take them? Don't know tbh, but there are a lot of buses that go to tube and railway stations nearby and given its a london suburb you can bet a lot of people work in town. Or did before covid. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
wrote:
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 07:12:50 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:05 +0100 would probably be easier just to use a northern line train, perhaps 3 cars only. Although they're formed of two half-sets (DM-T-UNDM), I don't think any double-ended half sets exist, so there are no three-car trains to run. Ah, didn't know that. Well I'm sure they could sort something out but its all academic anyway as the line would never have happened anyway and certainly not now with the state of TfLs finances. Its a good thing the battersea extension is almost done or that would probably have got the chop but I suspect the bakerloo extension is now dead in the water. Yes, all TfL projects that weren't already under way are on hold. So, the new Piccadilly line train order is going ahead, but the extension of the order to replace the even-older Bakerloo line trains is on hold. That delay will become expensive if it leads to a break in production in Goole. And, of course, the Bakerloo extension, also on hold, will depend on the new train order going ahead. The Piccadilly resignalling, needed for a higher frequency service, is also on hold. So they can't order the extra trains that the Piccadilly would need for that higher frequency service. It really is a logjam. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
|
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
Scott wrote:
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 09:34:16 +0000 (UTC), wrote: On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 07:12:50 -0000 (UTC) Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: wrote: On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:39:05 +0100 would probably be easier just to use a northern line train, perhaps 3 cars only. Although they're formed of two half-sets (DM-T-UNDM), I don't think any double-ended half sets exist, so there are no three-car trains to run. Ah, didn't know that. Well I'm sure they could sort something out but its all academic anyway as the line would never have happened anyway and certainly not now with the state of TfLs finances. Its a good thing the battersea extension is almost done or that would probably have got the chop but I suspect the bakerloo extension is now dead in the water. I thought Battersea was external funding. I think only partly. But it does mean there are external contractual commitments to get it finished and open. There was also supposed to be an order for extra trains for the Northern line, but that was quietly dropped a while ago. |
Dukes Avenue bridge, on disused Alexandra Palace branch, may be
On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 09:58:34 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: I think only partly. But it does mean there are external contractual commitments to get it finished and open. There was also supposed to be an order for extra trains for the Northern line, but that was quietly dropped a while ago. I wonder if they could tack a few onto the back of the picc order or whether the trains would be too different to be able to run on the northern without serious modifications. The northern line at 1 point had 3 different train types running on it - 38,59,72 so it wouldn't be unprecedented. |
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