Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside it
is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus to
whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment with
lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their ears at
the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

OTOH, I can't help but agree that the free travel for under 18s and over 60s
is far too generous, and is ripe to be cut back (even further)

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their ears
at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to raise
a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside it
is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus to
whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their ears at
the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to raise a
poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

we know that

but why should car owners in this zone pay for it?

It's PT uses that benefited from the fare freeze, they should be paying for
that mistake

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside it
is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus to
whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their ears at
the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to raise a
poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

we know that

but why should car owners in this zone pay for it?

It's PT uses that benefited from the fare freeze, they should be paying for
that mistake


I can't see how they could enforce a hugely enlarged CC zone anyway —
they'd need a vast number of cameras and admin support. It would also lose
the Tories every London seat (and not just inside the Circular roads).

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone
inside it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can
walk/bus to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their
ears at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to raise
a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

After the N/S Circular, how long before the M25?
--
Ian

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone
inside it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can
walk/bus to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their
ears at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to raise
a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

After the N/S Circular, how long before the M25?

Too many Tory-held seats.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

I can't see how they could enforce a hugely enlarged CC zone anyway
they'd need a vast number of cameras and admin support.
ITYF most of the infrastructure is already there to support the LEZ and ULEZ
extension next year.

--
DAS

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html


Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd be
547.5. That'd be a vote-loser but reduce it in respons to the outcry
and you end up with somrthing similar to the 100+ pounds some Boroughs
charge for a residents parking permit and still a nice little earner.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html
Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd be
547.5.

only for the first vehicle

many families are going to have 2

and

"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the residents'
discount is closed to new applicants"

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

On 17/10/2020 08:00, tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html
Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone
inside it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can
walk/bus to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd
be 547.5.

only for the first vehicle

many families are going to have 2


the discount is limited to one vehicle per /resident/ not per household.
See Annex 3 to the Order: "At no time may particulars of more than one
vehicle be entered in the register, in relation to any one individual
who is a qualified resident."


"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the residents'
discount is closed to new applicants"


....to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd never
get away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from anything else a
lot of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 21:11:51 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone
inside it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can
walk/bus to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

That's only if you use it every day.

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their
ears at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

This will be seen as the Mayor's fault, so Labour will get the flack.

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to
raise a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

we know that

but why should car owners in this zone pay for it?

One reason is that they are (like it or not) under Tfl's umbrella, and
so are one of the more direct sources of income. Rather than for example
imposing a council tax surcharge on everyone in London.

Another is that if TfL has to drastically cut services it'll force more
vehicles onto the roads, inconveniencing existing motorists.

It's PT uses that benefited from the fare freeze, they should be paying
for that mistake

Putting up fares won't solve the deficit (especially in the current
pandemic).
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 23:01:02 on Fri, 16
Oct 2020, Ian Jackson remarked:
People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their
ears at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to
raise a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

After the N/S Circular, how long before the M25?

Some of the media is speculating already.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/2020 08:00, tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html
Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd be
547.5.

only for the first vehicle

many families are going to have 2


the discount is limited to one vehicle per /resident/ not per household.
See Annex 3 to the Order: "At no time may particulars of more than one
vehicle be entered in the register, in relation to any one individual who
is a qualified resident."


"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the residents'
discount is closed to new applicants"


...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd never get
away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from anything else a lot
of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that they
have clean hands

by my count, the Tories have 2 constituencies and 1 assembly seat in this
new CC zone, not already inside the old one

tim

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/2020 08:00, tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd be
547.5.

only for the first vehicle

many families are going to have 2


the discount is limited to one vehicle per /resident/ not per household.
See Annex 3 to the Order: "At no time may particulars of more than one
vehicle be entered in the register, in relation to any one individual who
is a qualified resident."


"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the residents'
discount is closed to new applicants"


...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd never get
away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from anything else a lot
of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that they
have clean hands

by my count, the Tories have 2 constituencies and 1 assembly seat in this
new CC zone, not already inside the old one


I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

I suppose this confirms that the Tories have completely written off their
already very slim chances of winning the London mayoralty next year.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

On 17/10/2020 11:06, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/2020 08:00, tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd be
547.5.

only for the first vehicle

many families are going to have 2


the discount is limited to one vehicle per /resident/ not per household.
See Annex 3 to the Order: "At no time may particulars of more than one
vehicle be entered in the register, in relation to any one individual who
is a qualified resident."


"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the residents'
discount is closed to new applicants"


...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd never get
away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from anything else a lot
of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that they
have clean hands

by my count, the Tories have 2 constituencies and 1 assembly seat in this
new CC zone, not already inside the old one

I had in mind MPs from other constituencies with accommodation inside
the zone - plus others such as Dominic Cummings :)

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

I suppose this confirms that the Tories have completely written off their
already very slim chances of winning the London mayoralty next year.


I took that as given when Bailey was selected

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

Robin wrote:
On 17/10/2020 11:06, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/2020 08:00, tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd be
547.5.

only for the first vehicle

many families are going to have 2


the discount is limited to one vehicle per /resident/ not per household.
See Annex 3 to the Order: "At no time may particulars of more than one
vehicle be entered in the register, in relation to any one individual who
is a qualified resident."


"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the residents'
discount is closed to new applicants"


...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd never get
away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from anything else a lot
of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that they
have clean hands

by my count, the Tories have 2 constituencies and 1 assembly seat in this
new CC zone, not already inside the old one

I had in mind MPs from other constituencies with accommodation inside
the zone - plus others such as Dominic Cummings :)

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

I suppose this confirms that the Tories have completely written off their
already very slim chances of winning the London mayoralty next year.


I took that as given when Bailey was selected


There were rumblings about replacing him with someone electable, but
nothing came of them.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

On 17/10/2020 12:03, Recliner wrote:
Robin wrote:
On 17/10/2020 11:06, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 17/10/2020 08:00, tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 16/10/2020 17:06, tim... wrote:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous


If residents get the same 90% discount as with the current CC that'd be
547.5.

only for the first vehicle

many families are going to have 2


the discount is limited to one vehicle per /resident/ not per household.
See Annex 3 to the Order: "At no time may particulars of more than one
vehicle be entered in the register, in relation to any one individual who
is a qualified resident."


"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the residents'
discount is closed to new applicants"


...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd never get
away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from anything else a lot
of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that they
have clean hands

by my count, the Tories have 2 constituencies and 1 assembly seat in this
new CC zone, not already inside the old one

I had in mind MPs from other constituencies with accommodation inside
the zone - plus others such as Dominic Cummings :)

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

I suppose this confirms that the Tories have completely written off their
already very slim chances of winning the London mayoralty next year.


I took that as given when Bailey was selected


There were rumblings about replacing him with someone electable, but
nothing came of them.


Find an electable tory at the moment.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 10:36:03 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the
residents' discount is closed to new applicants"

...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd
never get away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from
anything else a lot of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that
they have clean hands

Which will be difficult when the mayor responsible for agreeing to the
charge is from their party.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:59:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

Your main home has to be in the zone to qualify, and the vehicle must be registered with the DVLA in your name and at
the address you are using to apply for the discount. Otherwise it wouldn't be a *residents'* discount.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get the
discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in the
zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:11:51 on Fri, 16 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone inside
it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they can walk/bus
to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal employment
with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

That's only if you use it every day.

or if it's parked on-street

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their ears
at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

This will be seen as the Mayor's fault,

will it?

Not convinced

so Labour will get the flack.

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to raise
a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

we know that

but why should car owners in this zone pay for it?

One reason is that they are (like it or not) under Tfl's umbrella, and so
are one of the more direct sources of income.

that's a because we can, not because we should

the original question remains.

Rather than for example imposing a council tax surcharge on everyone in
London.

Another is that if TfL has to drastically cut services it'll force more
vehicles onto the roads, inconveniencing existing motorists.

you may think that

I may think that

Non-users of PT asked to subsidise PT, don't think that

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 14:17:16 on
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:59:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

Your main home has to be in the zone to qualify, and the vehicle must
be registered with the DVLA in your name and at
the address you are using to apply for the discount. Otherwise it
wouldn't be a *residents'* discount.

OK, so the same issue applies today for people living just outside the
existing zone, as for an extended zone.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents
get the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone
itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 14:56:41 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:11:51 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:06:48 on Fri, 16 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...haun-bailey-ra
lly-against-extension-of-congestion-charge-zone-a4571826.html

Other media available

As a disinterested party, I can't believe that anyone is seriously
suggesting this

The N/S Circular area isn't like the central area where everyone
inside it is moderately well off, or lives in a bubble where they
can walk/bus to whatever service that they need.

People who live in the "Circular" area, are people in normal
employment with lives that mean that they have to have a car.

and an annual tax of 5,475 pounds to own one, is bloody ridiculous

That's only if you use it every day.

or if it's parked on-street

If the local councillors suggested this they would be out on their
ears at the next election

It's only because Boris is a Tory, and most of the affected LAs are
Labour/LibDem run that he has a hope of getting away with this
politically

This will be seen as the Mayor's fault,

will it?

Not convinced

so Labour will get the flack.

but it's still a bag of nonsense socially.

It's nothing to do with congestion, but simply a potential way to
raise a poll-tax the pay for TfL's huge deficit.

we know that

but why should car owners in this zone pay for it?

One reason is that they are (like it or not) under Tfl's umbrella,
and so are one of the more direct sources of income.

that's a because we can, not because we should

the original question remains.

Rather than for example imposing a council tax surcharge on everyone
in London.

Another is that if TfL has to drastically cut services it'll force
more vehicles onto the roads, inconveniencing existing motorists.

you may think that

I may think that

Non-users of PT asked to subsidise PT, don't think that

I note your disagreement on pretty much anything. Perhaps we can agree
that by default we disagree, and save a lot of typing?
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:17:16 on
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:59:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

Your main home has to be in the zone to qualify, and the vehicle must
be registered with the DVLA in your name and at
the address you are using to apply for the discount. Otherwise it
wouldn't be a *residents'* discount.

OK, so the same issue applies today for people living just outside the
existing zone, as for an extended zone.

No, as a glance at a map should explain to you.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:36:03 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the
residents' discount is closed to new applicants"

...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd
never get away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from
anything else a lot of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that
they have clean hands

Which will be difficult when the mayor responsible for agreeing to the
charge is from their party.

Shaun Bailey isn't mayor, and in any case, hasn't agreed to it. Sadiq Khan
certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the TfL services
(apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 14:49:46 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:17:16 on
Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 13:59:08 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

Your main home has to be in the zone to qualify, and the vehicle must
be registered with the DVLA in your name and at
the address you are using to apply for the discount. Otherwise it
wouldn't be a *residents'* discount.

OK, so the same issue applies today for people living just outside the
existing zone, as for an extended zone.

No, as a glance at a map should explain to you.

Why does it make a difference to the inconvenience of a zone on your
doorstep if you are living just the wrong side of Euston Road, or just
the wrong side of the North Circular?
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 14:52:18 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:36:03 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:

"As part of temporary changes to the Congestion Charge, the
residents' discount is closed to new applicants"

...to discourage car ownership in the CC zone. I suggest they'd
never get away with that within the N/S circulars. Apart from
anything else a lot of Assembly Members (and MPs) would be clobbered.

but it's potentially being imposed upon these people by national government

the opposition parties looking for re-election locally can argue that
they have clean hands

Which will be difficult when the mayor responsible for agreeing to the
charge is from their party.

Shaun Bailey isn't mayor, and in any case, hasn't agreed to it.

He won't be the one implementing it.

Sadiq Khan certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the
TfL services (apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

That'll be fun.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the option
of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 17:03:09 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the
option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents
get the discount, or only those living inside the rather small
zone itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street
in the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier

So you'll only have to pay of you venture out. Sounds fair enough to me.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:03:09 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or
working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the
option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone
itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier

So you'll only have to pay of you venture out.

we don't know the rules, as it's not been agreed

and hopefully never will be

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:03:09 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or
working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the
option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone
itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier

So you'll only have to pay of you venture out.

we don't know the rules, as it's not been agreed

and hopefully never will be

Yes, that's the key point: this is a threat from the government, not a TfL
plan.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

On 17/10/2020 15:52, Recliner wrote:

certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the TfL services
(apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

TfL said last night they have agreed the money to keep going to the end
of the month.

It's fun seeing the ferry disclaimer on all the commentary about the
situation.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 20:02:59 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:03:09 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or
working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the
option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone
itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier

So you'll only have to pay of you venture out.

we don't know the rules, as it's not been agreed

and hopefully never will be

Yes, that's the key point: this is a threat from the government, not a TfL
plan.

But without agreeing to something like this, TfL will be bankrupt and
have to "cease trading". The public will perceive agreement to such a
plan as something the mayor was complicit in.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at
21:08:06 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the TfL services
(apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

TfL said last night they have agreed the money to keep going to the end
of the month.

It's fun seeing the ferry disclaimer on all the commentary about the
situation.

There's probably some Act of Parliament which says it has to continue,
come what may.
--
Roland Perry

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

On 18/10/2020 09:31, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
21:08:06 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the TfL services
(apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

TfL said last night they have agreed the money to keep going to the
end of the month.

It's fun seeing the ferry disclaimer on all the commentary about the
situation.

There's probably some Act of Parliament which says it has to continue,
come what may.

It's the only commuter service TfL is legally obliged to operate. It
became free from 1889 after the the Metropolitan Board of Works took
over and removed tolls from the bridges in West London. The original Act
of Parliament, in 1811, set up a commercial ferry, which was taken over
in 1844 by the Eastern Counties Railway.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
21:08:06 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

certainly hasn't agreed to it. It's possible that all the TfL services
(apart from the Woolwich ferry) will close within days.

TfL said last night they have agreed the money to keep going to the end
of the month.

It's fun seeing the ferry disclaimer on all the commentary about the
situation.

There's probably some Act of Parliament which says it has to continue,
come what may.

Yes, I believe that is the case:

From the PM's local paper:

https://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/news/18799870.tfl-bailout-row-plans-extend-congestion-charge/

TfL has relied on Government cash during the coronavirus crisis, after its
income from passenger fares fell 90 per cent at the peak of the virus.

If a new deal cannot be agreed with Government, the network will be forced
to issue a Section 114 order – the equivalent of bankruptcy for a public
body.

The transport authority would then only be allowed to operate services it
is required to by law – taxi licensing, free school buses for some
children, and the Woolwich Ferry.


———————

My guess is that the current mayor would easily win that game of chicken
with the former mayor.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:02:59 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:03:09 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or
working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the
option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone
itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier

So you'll only have to pay of you venture out.

we don't know the rules, as it's not been agreed

and hopefully never will be

Yes, that's the key point: this is a threat from the government, not a TfL
plan.

But without agreeing to something like this, TfL will be bankrupt and
have to "cease trading". The public will perceive agreement to such a
plan as something the mayor was complicit in.

No, I'm pretty sure Boris and his floundering government will get the blame
if TfL is forced to issue a Section 114 order, the equivalent of bankruptcy
for a public body. Even local Tories will blame Boris.

Congestion charge to N/S Circular??????
 

In message , at 08:58:12 on Sun, 18 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:02:59 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:
tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:03:09 on Sat, 17 Oct 2020,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:54 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:06:04 on Sat, 17 Oct
2020, Recliner remarked:

I'd imagine that it would also severely impact people living or
working
just outside the Circular Roads, and they wouldn't even have the
option of
a resident's discount.

What's the situation with the existing CC? Do all London residents get
the discount, or only those living inside the rather small zone
itself

you have to live inside the zone

the reason is that the charge is raised on all cars parked on street in
the zone, even if you don't drive anywhere that day

Will they be doing patrols for such static cars if the zone is extended?

that's what they do inside now

but the huge increase in scale makes that enforcement impractical

which is what Recliner said earlier

So you'll only have to pay of you venture out.

we don't know the rules, as it's not been agreed

and hopefully never will be

Yes, that's the key point: this is a threat from the government, not a TfL
plan.

But without agreeing to something like this, TfL will be bankrupt and
have to "cease trading". The public will perceive agreement to such a
plan as something the mayor was complicit in.

No, I'm pretty sure Boris and his floundering government will get the blame
if TfL is forced to issue a Section 114 order, the equivalent of bankruptcy
for a public body. Even local Tories will blame Boris.

I disagree, the electorate will blame the Labour mayor for the
mismanagement which got TfL into that situation.

Which includes him failing to arrange a similar deal that national TOCs
have for funding during the pandemic.
--
Roland Perry