There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 11:15:45 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

I guess they should've waited a bit longer before hiring so many, but they
can hardly sack them now so not sure why the press are getting so worked up
given their salaries are probably a drop in the ocean compared to the overall
cost.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

[Quote from The Times]
A TfL spokesman said: “All available drivers are driving TfL Rail trains
on routes out of Paddington and Liverpool Street that will become part
of the Elizabeth line, undertaking vital testing of the central section
or training on other sections of the railway.�
[End quote]

Perhaps they can drive the Reading and Shenfield stoppers on 23/24/27
December, so those with broader route knowledge can add a few badly
needed specials elsewhere.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Certes wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

[Quote from The Times]
A TfL spokesman said: “All available drivers are driving TfL Rail trains
on routes out of Paddington and Liverpool Street that will become part
of the Elizabeth line, undertaking vital testing of the central section
or training on other sections of the railway.�
[End quote]

Perhaps they can drive the Reading and Shenfield stoppers on 23/24/27
December, so those with broader route knowledge can add a few badly
needed specials elsewhere.


Only Crossrail drivers drive Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers only drive
Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers don't sign routes where Crossrail don't
run.

The Reading and Shenfield Crossrail stoppers will already be scheduled to
be crewed by Crossrail drivers.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 15:18:43 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
wrote:


Only Crossrail drivers drive Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers only drive
Crossrail trains; Crossrail drivers don't sign routes where Crossrail don't
run.

The Reading and Shenfield Crossrail stoppers will already be scheduled to
be crewed by Crossrail drivers.


There were a couple of TV programmes about the building of Crossrail
broadcast two/three years ago (BBC2?) that featured driver training on
the new trains.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less attractive in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of them might decide to move elsewhere.

I fully expect that when Crossrail actually starts, they will still need to use the excuse that's so common on Govia-Thameslink: "service cancelled because of shortage of staff".


--
Clive Page

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-paying-140-drivers-up-to-18-months-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive in a few years time when services actually start running, when
the generous salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system
at that. Some of them might decide to move elsewhere.

I fully expect that when Crossrail actually starts, they will still need
to use the excuse that's so common on Govia-Thameslink: "service
cancelled because of shortage of staff".

Yes, undoubtedly.

They may soon be busy, as intensive test service is due to start by the
Spring. They still have an internal target to start services through the
central tunnel by mid-Oct 2021, with all stations open.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 10:41:00 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive in a few years time when services actually start running, when
the generous salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system
at that. Some of them might decide to move elsewhere.

I fully expect that when Crossrail actually starts, they will still need
to use the excuse that's so common on Govia-Thameslink: "service
cancelled because of shortage of staff".

Yes, undoubtedly.

They may soon be busy, as intensive test service is due to start by the
Spring. They still have an internal target to start services through the
central tunnel by mid-Oct 2021, with all stations open.

I wish them good luck with that.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...up-to-18-month
s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of
them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.



To other TOCs with better work.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...up-to-18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.



To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...drivers-up-to-
18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On 08/12/2020 09:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...drivers-up-to-
18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8


It's nice "work" if you can get it.Â* But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the
generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay
north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky
trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the
economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

The driving is not confined to the tunnel section, there's plenty of
open-air driving at each end. So would be much the same as driving the
current suburban services at each end but with a bit of tube driving in
the middle for variety.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 09:49:44 on Tue, 8 Dec 2020,
Graeme Wall remarked:
On 08/12/2020 09:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...drivers-up-to-
18-month



s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c5039240
51dda2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it.* But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when
the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at
that. Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that
pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky
trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the
economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.
One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line)
is a relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge
required.
On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

The driving is not confined to the tunnel section, there's plenty of
open-air driving at each end. So would be much the same as driving the
current suburban services at each end but with a bit of tube driving in
the middle for variety.

Isn't the tunnelled section going to be automatic operation?

And if you worked for GA, I doubt your shifts would be constrained to
shuttling LST-Shenfield, and never have the chance to go to other exotic
destinations such as Chelmsford and Southend.
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...up-to-18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that. Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.



To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.



Driving longer distances with fewer stops is always considered
better/easier than driving shorter distances with many stops.

Also the larger (geographically) TOCs will offer opportunities for
relocation to other depots (I'm guessing most Crossrail drivers won’t want
that right now, but might at some unspecified future point); eg I know many
ex-Paddington crew now based at
Worcester/Bristol/Swansea/Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

That's why many airline pilots fly stunt or racing planes, or gliders as a
hobby — it's the only way they can do any 'real' flying.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 11:18:45 on Tue, 8
Dec 2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On 08/12/2020 11:10, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Driving longer distances with fewer stops is always considered
better/easier than driving shorter distances with many stops.

Also the larger (geographically) TOCs will offer opportunities for
relocation to other depots (I'm guessing most Crossrail drivers won’t want
that right now, but might at some unspecified future point); eg I know many
ex-Paddington crew now based at
Worcester/Bristol/Swansea/Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance.

Thank you Anna; that makes a lot of sense. I'm not a driver but if the
simulators are in any way accurate then I think I could learn to start
off and keep moving as long as nothing goes wrong. The challenging bit
is getting the train to stop within walking distance of a platform.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:18:45 on Tue, 8
Dec 2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?

Usually only three pilots for those medium distances. But you mentioned
flights to the Far East (a rather quaint term), which are longer, and some
need four pilots. And, yes, they'd average less than one round trip a week.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 13:40:46 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:18:45 on Tue, 8
Dec 2020, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly
less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

What's this "ultra long haul" thing got to do with anything? The
majority of transatlantic flights are 10-12hrs. Have they got four
pilots, and only do one round trip a week?

Usually only three pilots for those medium distances. But you mentioned
flights to the Far East (a rather quaint term),

huh?

which are longer, and some need four pilots. And, yes, they'd average
less than one round trip a week.

LAX to Japan is 12hrs.
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.

Sam

[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes
--
The entity formerly known as
Spit the dummy to reply

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Sam Wilson wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.

Sam

[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes

I think there's up to an hour of interesting or varied work at each end of
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.


But less rewarding as a result.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...drivers-up-to-
18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8

It's nice "work" if you can get it. But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.


That's not necessarily a good thing...

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Exactly.

(Waterloo and City drivers also do the Central Line, btw)

Stourbridge shuttle crews are probably the most restricted on the network,
other than those who only drive in depots or yards.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/12/2020 09:21, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 19:50:59 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 09:32:07 +0000
Clive Page wrote:
On 04/12/2020 11:15, Recliner wrote:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...drivers-up-to-
18-month


s-before-the-line-opens-3tfqg5nhr?shareToken=4a6a1b0d9555d782c503924051dda 2d8


It's nice "work" if you can get it.Â* But the job will be a lot less
attractive
in a few years time when services actually start running, when the
generous
salary is combined with actual work, and on a shift system at that.
Some of

them might decide to move elsewhere.

Where would they move to? There arn't many blue collar jobs that pay
north
of 60K these days. Deep sea diver perhaps and a few other risky
trades but
hardly transferable skills and given what Covid has done to the
economy and
Brexit may soon do too they'll probably be thinking themselves lucky to
have any job.

To other TOCs with better work.

Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

The driving is not confined to the tunnel section, there's plenty of
open-air driving at each end. So would be much the same as driving the
current suburban services at each end but with a bit of tube driving in
the middle for variety.


The previous TOC drivers of what's now TfL Rail and will become Crossrail,
would have driven other routes too, not just Reading/Shenfield terminators.



Anna Noyd-Dryver

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On 08/12/2020 20:22, Recliner wrote:
Sam Wilson wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:55:26 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 09:21:22 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:39 on Tue, 8 Dec
2020, remarked:
Is being a crossrail driver harder or does it pay significantly less than
elsewhere? Thats a genuine question, I have no idea.

One obvious feature (that also applies to HEx, C2C and Island Line) is a
relatively limited amount of route and traction knowledge required.

Thats probably a bonus - less learning.

See harder/easier.

On the other hand, it's going to be pretty boring (like the Victoria
Line or Waterloo and City).

Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.

It's probably more boring flying a commuter plane within a hundred mile
radius of somewhere like Dallas or Atlanta, than being on long haul
transatlantic flights to numerous destinations in Europe and the Far
East.

I think long distance flying is much more boring for the pilots. It's the
take-offs and landings that make the job interesting; cruising is very
boring. And on ultra long haul flights, the four pilots only get a single
take-off or landing in a week-long return trip. That's not even enough to
maintain their proficiency ratings.

There is (or was) a well known meme[1] that describes long distance flying
as 8 hours of absolute boredom with 2 miniutes of panic at either end.

Sam

[1] or whatever we used to call what we now call memes

I think there's up to an hour of interesting or varied work at each end of
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.


I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.

Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/12/2020 20:22, Recliner wrote:
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.


I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!

Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.

Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?

That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 09:43:38 on Wed, 9 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.

Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?

That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.

It's just as important to know *which* of the signals (eg on a complex
gantry) is the one that applies to your track.
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:16:36 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:38 on Wed, 9 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.

Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?

That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.

It's just as important to know *which* of the signals (eg on a complex
gantry) is the one that applies to your track.

The one above the track surely.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 11:03:38 on Wed, 9 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:16:36 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:38 on Wed, 9 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:26:50 +0000 (UTC)
wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 21:20:16 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
wrote:
Most of its above ground. But I suspect any driving job gets boring after
a while regardless of the vehicle, even flying a plane.


That's where having a variety of routes and different traction comes in.

By way of comparison; the gWr drivers who drove what's now Crossrail
Reading/Hayes terminator services would also have signed all the branches,
Bedwyn and Oxford, plus those based at Reading would also have signed
Basingstoke and Gatwick. Plus they would have had some variety of calling
patterns between Padd and Reading.

Something I've wondered occasionally - why can't drivers not signed on a
route drive it at a much reduced speed if some emergency comes up and no
one else can be found? 2000 ton freight trains excepted , surely most EMUs,
HSTs etc can stop quick enough if only doing 20mph for it to be safe for
someone to drive a route if they know where the next signal is?

That should have read DONT know where the next signal is. Or bends etc.

It's just as important to know *which* of the signals (eg on a complex
gantry) is the one that applies to your track.

The one above the track surely.

No, that's where you don't understand how it works.
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On 09/12/2020 08:27, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/12/2020 20:22, Recliner wrote:
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.


I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!

Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.


Aeroflot got round that by getting crews to maintain Moscow time
regardless of where they were in the world.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On 09/12/2020 08:27, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/12/2020 20:22, Recliner wrote:
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.


I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!

Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.

What about radiation levels?

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

In message , at 18:46:43 on Wed, 9 Dec
2020, " remarked:
On 09/12/2020 08:27, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/12/2020 20:22, Recliner wrote:

the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.

I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!
Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods
plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.

What about radiation levels?

One of the case studies I did when at University was the radiation
levels experienced by Concorde crews (because it cruised at 60,000ft),
so it is something they've been taking into account for a very long
time.
--
Roland Perry

There's one line that won't be short of drivers...
 

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 17:41:36 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 09/12/2020 08:27, wrote:
On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 22:16:42 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 08/12/2020 20:22, Recliner wrote:
the flight, with at least the take-off hand flown. The hours in the middle
are largely on auto-pilot, with occasional ATC contact.


I know an ex BA pilot who always preferred the European routes rather
than Transatlantic as the former had more real flying and he got to go
home most nights!

Probably considerably healthier too. Sitting down for long periods plus
constant jet lag is very bad for a persons health.


Aeroflot got round that by getting crews to maintain Moscow time
regardless of where they were in the world.

Thats one approach, but the subconcious isn't fooled that easily - if its
dark outside then we tend to get sleepy.