"Robin May" wrote in message
.4...

I've seen signs for non 24-hour service stations
before. They just say "non-24 hour".

There are many such signs on the A2 and A12.

Those signs are useless! I don't care whether the service station is 24-hour
or not, I just want to know if it's open now.

They should use venetian-blind signs that can switch between saying "Service
station" and saying nothing. (What are those venetian blind signs called?)

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 at 17:36:35, Dave Liney wrote:

As the price of fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

They seem to manage in France.

Talking of which, why can't we have what they have in France and
Germany, where only every other service area has petrol and food, but
the intermediate ones have a place to park, with picnic tables and loos
and possibly/probably telephones and a local information board? I
expect they are inspected at least once a day - and the loos have become
vastly cleaner in recent years, the ones we visited this year barely
smelt at all which is unusual for French loos - but they must be
infinitely cheaper than the huge service areas. Okay, so they have
those, too - and some very nice ones, like the Aire du Baie de la Somme
near Abbeville - but you can buy a sandwich (French motorway sarnies are
far nicer than their British equivalents, but not as nice as
off-motorway ones, of course) and take it 20 km down the road to have a
picnic..... or just stop for a "drain, flush and refill" if that's all
you need.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 6 June 2004

"Annabel Smyth" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 at 17:36:35, Dave Liney wrote:

As the price of fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

They seem to manage in France.

Talking of which, why can't we have what they have in France and
Germany, where only every other service area has petrol and food, but
the intermediate ones have a place to park, with picnic tables and loos
and possibly/probably telephones and a local information board?

There is a picnic area at Heston (M4) Eastbound.

There is also a current planning application to build 120 units of
affordable housing on it - which makes me think that not many people
picnic there.


Robin

In message , Annabel Smyth
writes
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 at 17:36:35, Dave Liney wrote:

As the price of fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

They seem to manage in France.

Talking of which, why can't we have what they have in France and
Germany, where only every other service area has petrol and food, but
the intermediate ones have a place to park, with picnic tables and loos
and possibly/probably telephones and a local information board?
"Les aires de repos", or "rest areas", a wonderful idea and one which I,
too, can't understand why we've never repeated here.

In fact, in France at least, the proportion of these to "full blown"
service areas is much greater, maybe four or five to one. Indeed,
large scale service areas are actually few and far between in France; I
know as I frequently used to have to find the blasted places to keep
groups of 49 people on British coaches happy!

We did, in fact, once have a single, solitary "aire de repos" in
Britain. It was called the Brent Knoll Picnic area and was on the M5
in Somerset, in the shadow of the hill of the same name. It's now been
converted to a "full blown" service area called "Sedgemoor".

Okay, so they have
those, too - and some very nice ones, like the Aire du Baie de la Somme
near Abbeville
I used this recently for the first time. It is - as you say -
wonderful, not least because of its setting.

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Bob Martin:
[Interstates and similar roads in the US have] signage to nearest
available Fuel, Food and Lodging, both as lists as you approach
the exit, and as directions from the slip road.

The actual wording is "Gas - Food - Lodging", which wouldn't fly in the
UK for obvious reasons. In Ontario, Canada (where we also say "gas"),
they formerly used "Fuel - Food - Accommodations" but now conform to
the US style.

Dspite the fact this has to be a *very* low cost solution (after all, its
just a bit of research, and some signage), I doubt it would ever happen.

I believe the system was introduced in the US in conjunction with highway
beautification laws that required roadside billboards to be removed.

Dave Liney:
I can think of several reasons why it won't happen that don't rely on
conspiracy theories.

How do you define 'nearest'? As the crow flies; by road; in time taken?

By road; it's meaningful and objective. But it's not actually just the
nearest places anyway. If there is a cluster of businesses around the
exit, there will be signs for all of them. You might see "food" followed
by a row of three or four fast food or restaurant names (or logos if
they're chain restaurants), and then a later sign will show Burger King
to the right; McDonald's, KFC, and Joe's Local Diner to the left.
Likewise for gas and lodging.

I can see arguments between petrol stations and hotels about who
should be on the list as nearest.

The arguments would be about whether the cutoff rule should be "within
1/2 mile" or "within 1 mile" or "within 1 mile, or nearest within
5 miles if there is nothing within 1 mile"; once a rule is legislated,
that should settle the issue.

The signs will need to be kept up-to-date because the last thing someone
running low on fuel needs is to follow the signs off the motorway to
a place that has shut down.

Yes, well, in *some* states they would agree with that. :-(

Also ... opening time information will have to put on the signs...

Not practical; people wouldn't have enough time to read them all. The
sign just means "there is a gas station", not "there is an open gas
station". They could show 24-hour or not 24-hour, but in my experience
even this is not usually done. If you need gas or food in the middle
of the night, it's your responsibility to find a place that's open.

None of this is meant as a suggestion for what should be done in the UK.
--
Mark Brader | "I noted with some interest that Fahrenheit was
Toronto | also used in the weather forecast, but there the
| gas marks were missing." -- Ivan A. Derzhanski

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or
junction
11 (M3).

Given that the south-west quarter of the M25 is the most intensively used,
it's surprising that it wasn't the first to get a service area. It's also
surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25 to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

Good point - of course it couldn't work at J11 (motorway:motorway only), but
any obvious reason they couldn't do something like that for the A3 junction?

In message , User23
writes

It's also
surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25 to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

Good point - of course it couldn't work at J11 (motorway:motorway only), but
any obvious reason they couldn't do something like that for the A3 junction?

If you mean signs to the A3 Ripley services, the reason is likely to be
that you cannot easily get back to the M25 without a long deviation.

--
Paul Terry

If you mean signs to the A3 Ripley services, the reason is likely to be
that you cannot easily get back to the M25 without a long deviation.

Surely other easy option for a "quick fix" at M25 J10 would be to route to
"local services" like Cobham, which has, amongst other things, a large
Sainsbury's, complete with Restaurant and Petrol Station, just off the A3?

In message , Bob Martin
writes

If you mean signs to the A3 Ripley services, the reason is likely to be
that you cannot easily get back to the M25 without a long deviation.

Surely other easy option for a "quick fix" at M25 J10 would be to route to
"local services" like Cobham, which has, amongst other things, a large
Sainsbury's, complete with Restaurant and Petrol Station, just off the A3?

It would certainly be reasonably near, but it is not 24-hour opening and
I suspect that the locals might well raise planning objections.

I don't know what the official policy is for signs to off-motorway
services, but all those I can recall have been very close-by on major
roads, rather than on local side roads, and tend to point to service
areas that offer the full range of motorway-style facilities.

In the case of Cobham, I suspect it is likely that work will begin on
the official M25 service area there within less than a year, so I doubt
that any quick-fix will be applied, however viable it might be.

(Wasn't it John Major who thought that the answer to all transport
problems was a Cones Hotline and many more Motorway Service Stations,
doubtless with his much-loved caffs selling delicious peas?)

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Good point - of course it couldn't work at J11 (motorway:motorway
only), but any obvious reason they couldn't do something like that for
the A3 junction?

If you mean signs to the A3 Ripley services, the reason is likely to
be that you cannot easily get back to the M25 without a long
deviation.

So either redesign the access to Ripley services, so you *can* turn round
there, or take 'em in towards London, to the big supermarket just off the
first junction, the A245 at Painshill - only a mile or so in and nearer
than Ripley.