In article , Adrian
writes
So either redesign the access to Ripley services, so you *can* turn round
there, or take 'em in towards London, to the big supermarket just off the
first junction, the A245 at Painshill - only a mile or so in and nearer
than Ripley.

Isn't there scope here for a bit of Usenet collaborative work: many of
us know motorway junctions (not necessarily near where we live) where
there's a supermarket, petrol station, cafe or whatever within a quarter
of a mile or so of the exit. How about forming a list, with basic
directions?

--
Clive Page

Martin Underwood wrote:
"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...
IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service
areas, of which we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett
Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or
junction 11 (M3). As there is another bout of works around J11 at
the moment, has anyone heard if they plan to recitify the
deficiency at the same time ? Or, for that matter, ever?

Given that the south-west quarter of the M25 is the most
intensively used, it's surprising that it wasn't the first to get a
service area. It's also surprising that there aren't signs at each
junction on the M25 to the nearest off-motorway services where you
could at least get a cup of coffee and a Mars Bar, and go to the
loo.

The idea of motorways is to take traffic away from ordinary roads, not
to inject additional traffic into villages which just happen to be close
to a motorway junction. Also, the M25 junctions are quite busy enough
without encouraging extra traffic leaving and entering the M25 at them.

There seems to have been a change in the design of motorway service
stations in recent years. Originally (with the exception of
Scratchwood at the southern end of the M1) two service stations
have always been built - one serving each direction with no vehicle
link between the two. Now (M40 services, M25 services) one service
station is built which is reached by coming right off the motorway
at a junction

This is not a change in design policy. There have been several such
service areas for many years, e.g. Aust on M4 (now Severn View on M48),
Gordano on M5, Exeter on M5, in addition to Scratchwood.

- this is probably more efficient as it avoids duplication and
allows the services to be used by non-motorway traffic too. I wonder
why this wasn't done from the start.

It adds traffic to the junction roundabout, possibly requiring a bigger
junction than would otherwise be necessary, and it adds journey time.
It also, in my experience, leads to lower standards in the service area,
perhaps because big does not necessarily mean better. Personally, I
would like to see more small service areas on the French pattern, not
all with full facilities, though they have the advantage of more land
being readily available.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Martin Underwood wrote:
"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...
IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service
areas, of which we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett
Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or
junction 11 (M3). As there is another bout of works around J11 at
the moment, has anyone heard if they plan to recitify the
deficiency at the same time ? Or, for that matter, ever?

Given that the south-west quarter of the M25 is the most
intensively used, it's surprising that it wasn't the first to get a
service area. It's also surprising that there aren't signs at each
junction on the M25 to the nearest off-motorway services where you
could at least get a cup of coffee and a Mars Bar, and go to the
loo.

The idea of motorways is to take traffic away from ordinary roads, not
to inject additional traffic into villages which just happen to be close
to a motorway junction. Also, the M25 junctions are quite busy enough
without encouraging extra traffic leaving and entering the M25 at them.

Hence the need for another service station in the south west of the M25 to
prevent anyone who's dying for a pee leaving the motorway temporarily at one
of the junctions in search of services (eg a garage) in a nearby town.


There seems to have been a change in the design of motorway service
stations in recent years. Originally (with the exception of
Scratchwood at the southern end of the M1) two service stations
have always been built - one serving each direction with no vehicle
link between the two. Now (M40 services, M25 services) one service
station is built which is reached by coming right off the motorway
at a junction

This is not a change in design policy. There have been several such
service areas for many years, e.g. Aust on M4 (now Severn View on M48),
Gordano on M5, Exeter on M5, in addition to Scratchwood.

You may be right. I was thinking mainly of the M1 ones since those are the
ones I know best.

- this is probably more efficient as it avoids duplication and
allows the services to be used by non-motorway traffic too. I wonder
why this wasn't done from the start.

It adds traffic to the junction roundabout, possibly requiring a bigger
junction than would otherwise be necessary, and it adds journey time.
It also, in my experience, leads to lower standards in the service area,
perhaps because big does not necessarily mean better. Personally, I
would like to see more small service areas on the French pattern, not
all with full facilities, though they have the advantage of more land
being readily available.

There's always a disadvantage with every advantage. I tend to prefer the
two-services-on-the-motorway model to the one-service-off-the-motorway
because it takes less time to enter and leave. However it would be nice if
there was a road bridge linking the two to allow for U turns when you
realise you've gone the wrong way and if you discover that there's a traffic
jam ahead (so you can double back and take an alternative route). However
the latter is rather contentious: I get the impression that the police would
rather that traffic was trapped stationary on the motorway than being able
to "escape" and clog up roads that aren't designed to take the weight of
traffic.

"Richard J." wrote in message
...
This is not a change in design policy. There have been several such
service areas for many years, e.g. Aust on M4 (now Severn View on M48),
Gordano on M5, Exeter on M5, in addition to Scratchwood.

Isn't Scratchwood now "London Gateway"?

And if so, why did they change the name?

And why did they change Hilton Park (M6) to (can't remember name) and
back to Hilton Park again?


Robin

Robin Cox wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...
This is not a change in design policy. There have been several such
service areas for many years, e.g. Aust on M4 (now Severn View on
M48), Gordano on M5, Exeter on M5, in addition to Scratchwood.

Isn't Scratchwood now "London Gateway"?

And if so, why did they change the name?

And why did they change Hilton Park (M6) to (can't remember name) and
back to Hilton Park again?

Not sure about Scratchwood, but Hilton Park was due to a new company taking
over and presumably wanting to put their own mark on it. They called it
Birmingham North, even though it's 10 miles from M6 J7.

In message , Robin Cox
writes
"Richard J." wrote in message
...
This is not a change in design policy. There have been several such
service areas for many years, e.g. Aust on M4 (now Severn View on M48),
Gordano on M5, Exeter on M5, in addition to Scratchwood.

Isn't Scratchwood now "London Gateway"?

And if so, why did they change the name?
Because "Scratchwood" had a reputation for being awful so (oldest trick
in the book) they went for a rebranding.

Incidentally, to get this back on topic for London (!) I would point out
that the guns on HMS Belfast are permanently trained on
Scratchwood/London Gateway. Unfortunately, they never fire...... ;-)

And why did they change Hilton Park (M6) to (can't remember name)
"Birmingham North"

and
back to Hilton Park again?
Because it was nowhere near Birmingham.

Frankley also became "Birmingham South" for a while, before changing
back. It was particularly noticeable in that instance as it lies, er,
West of Birmingham!

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 06:53:47 GMT, "Robin Cox"
wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...
This is not a change in design policy. There have been several such
service areas for many years, e.g. Aust on M4 (now Severn View on M48),
Gordano on M5, Exeter on M5, in addition to Scratchwood.

Isn't Scratchwood now "London Gateway"?

And if so, why did they change the name?

And why did they change Hilton Park (M6) to (can't remember name) and
back to Hilton Park again?

Service stations were usually traditionally named for the closest
settlement. Recently, there has been a move to relabel them for much
larger towns. So Hilton Park - Birmingham North, Forton (M6) became
Lancaster South and Bowburn (A1(M)) became Durham.

Some people protested and so a few service areas have reverted to
their original names.

Sam
--
Sam Holloway, Cambridge

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 at 10:41:07, Sam Holloway
wrote:


Service stations were usually traditionally named for the closest
settlement. Recently, there has been a move to relabel them for much
larger towns. So Hilton Park - Birmingham North, Forton (M6) became
Lancaster South and Bowburn (A1(M)) became Durham.

Some people protested and so a few service areas have reverted to
their original names.

Sam

The one at Stansted's always been Birchanger, I think, although Stansted
is the more recognisable place-name.
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 6 June 2004

"Robin Cox" typed


"Richard J." wrote in message
...
This is not a change in design policy. There have been several such
service areas for many years, e.g. Aust on M4 (now Severn View on M48),
Gordano on M5, Exeter on M5, in addition to Scratchwood.

Isn't Scratchwood now "London Gateway"?

Yes

And if so, why did they change the name?

Don't know but commercial rebadging is a common, if confusing, practice...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 06:53:47 GMT, "Robin Cox"
wrote:

And if so, why did they change the name?

Probably a marketing thing. They renamed Forton to Lancaster, and
Burton-in-Kendal to plain "Kendal", and it caused so much confusion
that they had to change them back - or at least label the former
"Lancaster (Forton)" and do something similar with the other one.

Given that people leave the motorway at junctions, and don't tend to
do so at services (unless they know of the sneaky back way out, and I
realise there are a few) it makes no sense to rename them, as people
tend to know the names already and just get confused when they change.
It doesn't matter if you know where Forton is or not, for example -
that's just the name for the service area.

On a slight aside, Tebay (say it out loud and think about what you
might get from the cafe there) always struck me as a brilliant name
for a service station - and, being an independent station, is one of
the best I've been to. I'll get my coat...

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain