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Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Hi all,
I sent the following message to Kensington & Chelsea council a while back. +++++++++++++++ At the junction of Adair Road and Appleford Road (W10) is a crossroads with no roundabout, no stop signs, no give way signs and no dotted lines on the road. This evening I used the junction for the first time, and came straight through the junction in the eastbound direction at about 30 mph, since the lack of dotted lines made me believe I had the priority. Finding myself in a dead end, I examined the junction carefully and realised that any car going through the junction in a north-south or south-north direction would also believe they had the priority, and there might have been fatalities. ++++++++++++++++ Receiving no reply, I phoned them up, only to be told that it was the council's policy not to use any road markings on quiet roads because they thought the streets looked better without them. I drove this route yesterday for the second time and even though I was thinking about the previous incident, the junction sprung itself on me, and a sharp brake application was needed to avoid driving through it at speed again. Does anyone know if the council's policy is legal? The whole neighbourhood seems exceptionally quiet, but this route is the only reasonable way to avoid the banned right turn from Harrow Road to Great Western Road, so I can't be the only non-resident to use it. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
John Rowland wrote:
Hi all, I sent the following message to Kensington & Chelsea council a while back. +++++++++++++++ At the junction of Adair Road and Appleford Road (W10) is a crossroads with no roundabout, no stop signs, no give way signs and no dotted lines on the road. This evening I used the junction for the first time, and came straight through the junction in the eastbound direction at about 30 mph, since the lack of dotted lines made me believe I had the priority. Finding myself in a dead end, I examined the junction carefully and realised that any car going through the junction in a north-south or south-north direction would also believe they had the priority, and there might have been fatalities. ++++++++++++++++ Receiving no reply, I phoned them up, only to be told that it was the council's policy not to use any road markings on quiet roads because they thought the streets looked better without them. I drove this route yesterday for the second time and even though I was thinking about the previous incident, the junction sprung itself on me, and a sharp brake application was needed to avoid driving through it at speed again. Does anyone know if the council's policy is legal? The whole neighbourhood seems exceptionally quiet, .... but is still a "possible area for consideration" for inclusion in the Mayor's extension of the congestion charge zone! There appears to be no advice in the Highway Code on how to negotiate such a junction. There is, for example, no equivalent of the French priority-to-the-right rule. However, I don't know whether there is a legal obligation on the council to mark out the junction. I note that Streetmap shows a primary school west of the junction in Appleford Road. Would be worth a visit in term time during the school run. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:30:15 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Hi all, I sent the following message to Kensington & Chelsea council a while back. +++++++++++++++ At the junction of Adair Road and Appleford Road (W10) is a crossroads with no roundabout, no stop signs, no give way signs and no dotted lines on the road. This evening I used the junction for the first time, and came straight through the junction in the eastbound direction at about 30 mph, since the lack of dotted lines made me believe I had the priority. Finding myself in a dead end, I examined the junction carefully and realised that any car going through the junction in a north-south or south-north direction would also believe they had the priority, and there might have been fatalities. ++++++++++++++++ Receiving no reply, I phoned them up, only to be told that it was the council's policy not to use any road markings on quiet roads because they thought the streets looked better without them. I drove this route yesterday for the second time and even though I was thinking about the previous incident, the junction sprung itself on me, and a sharp brake application was needed to avoid driving through it at speed again. Does anyone know if the council's policy is legal? The whole neighbourhood seems exceptionally quiet, but this route is the only reasonable way to avoid the banned right turn from Harrow Road to Great Western Road, so I can't be the only non-resident to use it. There are loads round where I live (south Manchester). My GFs driving instructor told her to treat them all as give ways irrespective of the direction from which she approached. She passed first time so it must have been reasonable advice :-) -- ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø Please reply to the group Replies to this address will bounce! ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Theres lots of them arround Warrington, basically noone has right of way.
Of course up north people are polite and will organise themselves if more thne 2 cars are at the junction at one time. Like Cheeky's Sister, when I learnt I was told to treat them as give ways. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
There are loads round where I live (south Manchester). My GFs driving
instructor told her to treat them all as give ways irrespective of the direction from which she approached. She passed first time so it must have been reasonable advice :-) It's an immediate fail if you actually drive through an unmarked crossroads at speed - even if you are on the more major road (despite the fact that generally speaking - most traffic on the more major road will simply drive through without slowing) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Richard Bullock" wrote in message
... It's an immediate fail if you actually drive through an unmarked crossroads at speed - even if you are on the more major road (despite the fact that generally speaking - most traffic on the more major road will simply drive through without slowing) But how can you know the junction is unmarked until you are already passing through it? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
John Rowland wrote:
"Richard Bullock" wrote in message ... It's an immediate fail if you actually drive through an unmarked crossroads at speed - even if you are on the more major road (despite the fact that generally speaking - most traffic on the more major road will simply drive through without slowing) But how can you know the junction is unmarked until you are already passing through it? Are you another one of these people who only looks at what's going on six inches past their window? If you try lookiing at the road ahead it is possible to see the presence, or otherwise, of road markings and signs. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Paul Weaver wrote:
Like Cheeky's Sister, when I learnt I was told to treat them as give ways. Cheeky, are you going out with your sister? :-O :-) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Brimstone" wrote in message
... John Rowland wrote: But how can you know the junction is unmarked until you are already passing through it? Are you another one of these people who only looks at what's going on six inches past their window? No, but thanks for suggesting it. If you try lookiing at the road ahead it is possible to see the presence, or otherwise, of road markings and signs. While you can certainly see whether your own road has markings at the forthcoming junction, the presence of parked cars often prevents you from seeing whether the side roads have markings until you are too close to the junction to stop, even if checking side roads for markings was the only thing on which a driver had to concentrate. Thinking about this again, I realise that I have passed many unmarked junctions, but they are always T-Junctions, and they are almost all in short twisty dead end roads where I have neither the desire nor the ability to do more than 15mph. The only exception I can think of is the Y-junction of East View and Wyburn Avenue in Barnet, where you could easily do 30mph down either road, but the road there is wide and devoid of parked cars, so visibility is not a problem. I think the problem with the Kensington one is that the council thinks it's a T-junction because the fourth road is merely a (presumably private) drive leading to the garages of a block of flats, but when you're approaching via Appleford Rd it looks like you are on the main road crossing two side roads. So it has probably slipped through the councils rules - if they thought of it as a crossroads, I am sure they would mark which road had priority. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
John Rowland wrote:
I think the problem with the Kensington one is that the council thinks it's a T-junction because the fourth road is merely a (presumably private) drive leading to the garages of a block of flats, but when you're approaching via Appleford Rd it looks like you are on the main road crossing two side roads. So it has probably slipped through the councils rules - if they thought of it as a crossroads, I am sure they would mark which road had priority. But why does one road or the other have to have priority? I know that at first sight it sounds perverse, but if fewer junctions had such markings then all traffic would (apart from a few morons of course) slow down and take care. As suggested, many people rely on the road signs etc and forget about people emrging from the side turning whose view is blocked by vehicles parked close to the junction. A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right" method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK? |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:10:00 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote this:- As suggested, many people rely on the road signs etc and forget about people emrging from the side turning whose view is blocked by vehicles parked close to the junction. Although I can't comment on this location removal of excessive road markings has been shown to slow the average speed of motor traffic. I expect to see more of it, though it will be a low process. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote the following
in: A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right" method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK? Wouldn't that just be the reverse of a mini-roundabout? If so, why not just have a give way to the right rule so that unmarked junctions were treated as mini-roundabouts. -- message by the incredible Robin May. "The British don't like successful people" - said by British failures Who is Abi Titmuss? What is she? Why is she famous? http://robinmay.fotopic.net |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Robin May wrote:
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote the following in: A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right" method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK? Wouldn't that just be the reverse of a mini-roundabout? If so, why not just have a give way to the right rule so that unmarked junctions were treated as mini-roundabouts. The implementation, at this stage, is less important than getting the basic idea accepted. But I've got no problem with your suggestion. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Paul Weaver wrote in message ...
Theres lots of them arround Warrington, basically noone has right of way. Of course up north people are polite and will organise themselves if more thne 2 cars are at the junction at one time. Like Cheeky's Sister, when I learnt I was told to treat them as give ways. Sounds very like the 4-way stop concept in the states. All cars have to stop and the first to arrive can continue. They take a little while to get the hang of but then work well. Does a very good job of keeping speeds down in residential areas. Without needing road humps and all those other expensive measures draining the council funds. A lot of the speed tables around me aren't that old but aren't showing signs that they will last much longer. And I don't think the council road budget can stretch to replacing them all soon! A few 4-way stop signs and a single solid white line has got to be less expensive than the semi-contruction methods used here - ( examples ... http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/Transport...m/calmhome.htm ) I also recall a TV program about traffic calming where the following theory was discussed - that having lots of white line markings, sign posts and build-outs/chicanes was not the most effective approach to traffic calming. A better way was to have no roads markings at all. One village, can't recall where is it, had done this and the result was a marked reduction in average speeds. With no lines on the road, especially in the centre, drivers were a lot more cautious. But with lots of lines marking out routes they feel they have a safe corridor, even though it might wobble around a bit, and can charge on. Also a barage of road signs only serves to distract drivers from observing the natural hazzards and cues that good drivers look for. All well and good. but the original posters situation does sound dangerous. If a junction is different from the others around it, thats asking for trouble. Would be good to see a digital photo of the junction in question. Si |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Robin May" wrote in message
.4... "Piccadilly Pilot" wrote the following in: A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right" method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK? Wouldn't that just be the reverse of a mini-roundabout? If so, why not just have a give way to the right rule so that unmarked junctions were treated as mini-roundabouts. Why not just mark every junction? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"John Rowland" wrote in message
... "Richard Bullock" wrote in message ... It's an immediate fail if you actually drive through an unmarked crossroads at speed - even if you are on the more major road (despite the fact that generally speaking - most traffic on the more major road will simply drive through without slowing) But how can you know the junction is unmarked until you are already passing through it? If you can't see any markings, assume it is unmarked. If you want to check the markings before passing through the junction, travel at an appropriate speed. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 22:54:05 GMT, Channon
wrote: Paul Weaver wrote: Like Cheeky's Sister, when I learnt I was told to treat them as give ways. Cheeky, are you going out with your sister? :-O :-) he he..... Well I am from Yorkshire..... ;-) You'll be pleased to know that I'm not and Mr Weaver' allegation is totally unwarranted! -- ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø Please reply to the group Replies to this address will bounce! ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
David Hansen wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:10:00 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "Piccadilly Pilot" wrote this:- As suggested, many people rely on the road signs etc and forget about people emrging from the side turning whose view is blocked by vehicles parked close to the junction. Although I can't comment on this location removal of excessive road markings has been shown to slow the average speed of motor traffic. I expect to see more of it, though it will be a low process. It will be a slow and costly process because removing road markings completely can only be done by re-surfacing the road. Markings can be partially removed by burning them off, or planing them off, but both these methods make a mess of the road surface - and you can still see where the markings were. Another unsatisfactory method is to cover them with black road-marking material - but as it wears away the white markings underneath soon start to show through again. Kensington and Chelsea have a 'de-cluttering' policy which aims to reduce road signs and markings and other street furniture such as guardrails and bollards to the absolute minimum in order to improve the look of the area. So long as this is coupled with good road design it shouldn't compromise safety. But there may be risks if things are just ripped out without considering why they were put there in the first place. I have little doubt it is safe to omit markings in low speed roads with relatively light traffic. Over recent years many residential developments have been built without road markings at junctions and work perfectly well. If you are not sure whether you have priority just give-way - simple (if others do this at the same time it may be confusing for a moment but not dangerous)! Just like a mini-roundabout really, except for the lack of 'rules'. I wouldn't recommend this as a 'blanket' policy however - each location needs to be looked at. Where visibility of a junction is not so good, providing give-way lines on the minor roads; and road centre-lines (or leaving a gap in a continuous centre-line) across a junction on the priority road can be an effective way to show drivers that there is something there they need to look out for. And much cheaper than mini-roundabouts, which can also be very effective if required but need illuminated signs in addition to the road markings. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:10:00 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "Piccadilly Pilot" wrote this:- As suggested, many people rely on the road signs etc and forget about people emrging from the side turning whose view is blocked by vehicles parked close to the junction. Although I can't comment on this location removal of excessive road markings has been shown to slow the average speed of motor traffic. I expect to see more of it, though it will be a low process. Interesting opinion. Road markings were put there in the first place to restrict drivers. Most road markings are there to enforce particular laws. Now, I would have thought *I* would be much keener to get rid of them than *you* are. -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of civilisation in any country." (Winston Churchill) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
umpston wrote:
I wouldn't recommend this as a 'blanket' policy however - each location needs to be looked at. Where visibility of a junction is not so good, providing give-way lines on the minor roads; and road centre-lines (or leaving a gap in a continuous centre-line) across a junction on the priority road can be an effective way to show drivers that there is something there they need to look out for. And much cheaper than mini-roundabouts, which can also be very effective if required but need illuminated signs in addition to the road markings. How about a simple "crossroads" sign, or whever the junction is? |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:07:35 +0100 someone who may be "PeterE"
wrote this:- Interesting opinion. Road markings were put there in the first place to restrict drivers. Most road markings are there to enforce particular laws. Incorrect. Most road markings are the white lines along the side of roads and in the middle. (Most of) these do not indicate a particular law (the major exception are solid lines in the middle of the road), rather they are provided to allow motorists to drive faster. The converse of removing these lines has the effect one would expect. Only some markings along the road indicate laws. Parking restrictions and junctions being examples. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:07:35 +0100 someone who may be "PeterE" wrote this:- Interesting opinion. Road markings were put there in the first place to restrict drivers. Most road markings are there to enforce particular laws. Incorrect. Most road markings are the white lines along the side of roads and in the middle. (Most of) these do not indicate a particular law (the major exception are solid lines in the middle of the road), rather they are provided to allow motorists to drive faster. The converse of removing these lines has the effect one would expect. Only some markings along the road indicate laws. Parking restrictions and junctions being examples. Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, something I might assume you support. Apart from dotted white centre lines, all other road lining is to encourage adherence to road traffic law. Personally I'd love roads without any signs or markings. I don't think you would. -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of civilisation in any country." (Winston Churchill) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:30:33 +0100 someone who may be "PeterE"
wrote this:- Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, They are certainly seen more often on rural roads. Urban roads often have pavements and the kerb stones act as a marking of the edge of the road. where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, Incorrect. The intention is to mark the edge of the road. The main aim of this is to encourage motorists to keep away from the edge of the road and reduce damaging to the bank. Where there is a substantial amount of tarmac the intention is much the same, only the aim is to reduce the edge of the tarmac being crumbled. Both are part of the speeding up the motorist agenda of decades of transport policy. Cycle lane markings are primarily intended to narrow the apparent width of the road. However, again this is not to do with particular laws. Apart from dotted white centre lines, all other road lining is to encourage adherence to road traffic law. Incorrect. See above. Personally I'd love roads without any signs or markings. I don't think you would. Don't try and get a job mind reading, you are not very good at it. The idea of no signs or markings is a straw man, but I would remove many road markings for the reasons discussed earlier in the thread. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
David Hansen wrote:
"PeterE" wrote... Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, Incorrect. The intention is to mark the edge of the road. The main aim of this is to encourage motorists to keep away from the edge of the road and reduce damaging to the bank ....by narrowing the apparent width of the road, which is what he said. Strewth... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/04 |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
JNugent wrote:
David Hansen wrote: "PeterE" wrote... Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, Incorrect. The intention is to mark the edge of the road. The main aim of this is to encourage motorists to keep away from the edge of the road and reduce damaging to the bank ...by narrowing the apparent width of the road, which is what he said. How does marking the edge of the carriageway to keep people on it equate to "narrowing the apparent width of the road"? |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Brimstone wrote:
Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, Incorrect. The intention is to mark the edge of the road. The main aim of this is to encourage motorists to keep away from the edge of the road and reduce damaging to the bank ...by narrowing the apparent width of the road, which is what he said. How does marking the edge of the carriageway to keep people on it equate to "narrowing the apparent width of the road"? Because, in rural areas, the line is a small distance in from the edge of the carriageway and the line itself, of course, has a width (often 150mm). This has the effect of making the usable width of carriageway appear less than if you ran your wheels along the blacktop/grass interface |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Stimpy wrote:
Brimstone wrote: Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, Incorrect. The intention is to mark the edge of the road. The main aim of this is to encourage motorists to keep away from the edge of the road and reduce damaging to the bank ...by narrowing the apparent width of the road, which is what he said. How does marking the edge of the carriageway to keep people on it equate to "narrowing the apparent width of the road"? Because, in rural areas, the line is a small distance in from the edge of the carriageway and the line itself, of course, has a width (often 150mm). This has the effect of making the usable width of carriageway appear less than if you ran your wheels along the blacktop/grass interface Do people habitually and deliberately run along this "blacktop/grass interface" that most English speaking people call "the edge of the road"? |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Paul Weaver"
Paul, Don't know why, but every time I open one of your posts I get a message about installing a Greek language pack. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
PeterE wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 22 Aug 2004:
Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, something I might assume you support. Er - I think you'll find the intention is to show the edge of the road to motorists at night, bearing in mind that such roads are normally unlit. -- Annabel - "Mrs Redboots" (trying out a new .sig to reflect the personality I use in online forums) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Annabel Smyth wrote:
PeterE wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 22 Aug 2004: Relatively few roads have white lines along the side of the carriageway. These are normally rural primary routes, where the intention is to narrow the apparent width of the road, something I might assume you support. Er - I think you'll find the intention is to show the edge of the road to motorists at night, bearing in mind that such roads are normally unlit. That's far to obvious a concept, it's not "oppresing the motorist". |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Robin May wrote:
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote the following in: A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right" method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK? Wouldn't that just be the reverse of a mini-roundabout? If so, why not just have a give way to the right rule so that unmarked junctions were treated as mini-roundabouts. I was quite amazed by the reference to the UK having no equivalent of France's "give way to the right" rule, because here in Australia we have a "give way to the right" rule, and I assumed the rights of way were the same. It makes sense in left driving countries, because the traffic on the right has priority in other situations (notably when merging). Having France do likewise despite driving on the other side of the road sounds very dangerous. However, at least in Adelaide, very few crossroads require all traffic to do so. Many are marked, and nearly all of the rest have the gutter crossing the road where traffic has to give way. Even so, I'm quite concerned. Back in 1993, when I originally applied for a learner's permit I failed the written test. The first section, which required every question to be answered correctly, required the car with the right of way to be circled. At an unmarked crossroads, I circled the going straigt ahead, but the car turning right into the same road had priority. They'd even put the same question in a second time, rotated 90°, to try and catch out more people. At least I was consistent! Considering you can trade in one country's licence for another's, I'm wondering how many people out there misunderstand the rights of way. BTW John, you're theory about the council thinking it's a private drive seems rather unlikely to me. The council are unlikely not to know whether a road is theirs or not, and if you look in your phonebooksize street directory, you'll find it isn't a private road. Unless the AA have got it wrong, of course. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Brimstone" wrote in message
... Do people habitually and deliberately run along this "blacktop/grass interface" that most English speaking people call "the edge of the road"? A study of many country lanes will indicate that most of the potholes at the edge of the road are caused by heavy vehicles being in that position. Their tyre marks are added proof. -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society 75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
Henry wrote: "Paul Weaver" Paul, Don't know why, but every time I open one of your posts I get a message about installing a Greek language pack. Because he's posting in "text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7", which is a Greek character set. |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Henry" wrote in message
... "Paul Weaver" Paul, Don't know why, but every time I open one of your posts I get a message about installing a Greek language pack. That's because his newsreader is buggered. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:47:30 +0100, Dave Newt wrote:
Henry wrote: "Paul Weaver" Paul, Don't know why, but every time I open one of your posts I get a message about installing a Greek language pack. Because he's posting in "text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7", which is a Greek character set. Whoops, sorry. Posted a few greek things in my past, shanged it to -1 which I think Windows has by default, albeit old and american (no euro) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
In article ,
Paul Weaver wrote: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:47:30 +0100, Dave Newt wrote: Because he's posting in "text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7", which is a Greek character set. Whoops, sorry. Posted a few greek things in my past, shanged it to -1 which I think Windows has by default, albeit old and american (no euro) -15 is the euro version ... if only this newsreader did charsets though ! I saw your postings as clear if they were in ASCII :-) Nick -- "And we will be restoring neurotypicality just as soon as we are sure what is normal anyway. Thank you". -- not quite DNA |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:48:57 +0000, Nick Leverton wrote:
In article , Paul Weaver wrote: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:47:30 +0100, Dave Newt wrote: Because he's posting in "text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7", which is a Greek character set. Whoops, sorry. Posted a few greek things in my past, shanged it to -1 which I think Windows has by default, albeit old and american (no euro) -15 is the euro version ... if only this newsreader did charsets though ! I saw your postings as clear if they were in ASCII :-) I considered -15, but then figured someone might moan about windows popping up an "you are reading an unauthorised post, if you wish to read European messagese, please subscribe to 'Windows Plus', for only $49.99 a year" or something. You really should upgrade your newsreader. I'm not sure its wise to run a "test" version thats 3 years out of date (is trn updated anymoroe, apt-cache seems to think the latest version is 4.0-test76-8 or 3.6-17) |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
In article ,
Paul Weaver wrote: I considered -15, but then figured someone might moan about windows popping up an "you are reading an unauthorised post, if you wish to read European messagese, please subscribe to 'Windows Plus', for only $49.99 a year" or something. Heh... You really should upgrade your newsreader. I'm not sure its wise to run a "test" version thats 3 years out of date (is trn updated anymoroe, apt-cache seems to think the latest version is 4.0-test76-8 or 3.6-17) trn4-test76 is the latest, I've been running it for years ;-) True development has stalled, but it's very powerful, and does what I want, if occasionally slowly and with a lot of arcane keypresses :-) Still if anyone sees this I'd be interested in an updated version with character sets. Nick -- "And we will be restoring neurotypicality just as soon as we are sure what is normal anyway. Thank you". -- not quite DNA |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ... .... But why does one road or the other have to have priority? IIRC, the Warboys Report concluded that it was a good idea. .... A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right" method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK? Even in France, the bastion of priority from the right, it is now so little used that you will usually find a warning sign at those junctions where it still applies. In villages, the same effect is usually achieved by putting a stop line across the main road where a side road joins from the right. Colin Bignell |
Lack of road markings in Kensington & Chelsea
"PeterE" wrote in message ... .... Personally I'd love roads without any signs or markings. I don't think you would. I'm old enough to remember driving roads that were substantially without markings and I also remember how much easier it became to drive, particularly in rural areas, when the present markings started to come into use in the mid 1960s. Colin Bignell |
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