I'm finding this an interesting thread as I get to work in both London
and Paris pretty frequently and consider that I know both systems well.

They both have their ups and downs.

The "space trains" on Paris's Line 1 are - I think - magnificent.

The distinctive smell of the Paris Metro - variable thought it is - has
never gone away since my first visit in the early 1980s.

London's classic tube map is unsurpassed. None of the Paris versions
really achieves what Beck and Garbutt did, in my view.

The Bullseye/Roundel is *far* better at marking out stations in crowded
streetscapes. Exactly as people like Pick and Holden intended, there
it is to assure you that you're near somewhere where you'll be able to
"get your bearings. The "ME" symbol in Paris is much poorer at this
and its use is very much intermittent. (That said, I love the classic
"bouches de metro" Art Nouveau entrances!)

In message ,
Morton writes
I may be wrong but I think London Underground is extremely fool proof.
So did I until I worked in tourism. Some people get *very* confused or
simply refuse outright to use it "because they won't know where they're
going or where to get off". Curiously, it is often people from other
parts of the UK that are the worst for this. (I met a charming French
family in Spitalfields yesterday afternoon trying to get to Tower
Bridge. They took my advice and set off armed with a map and a sense
of determination; the people I'd had the day before from another part
of the UK didn't venture outside Covent Garden during the r free time
because they wouldn't have dreamed of getting a tube or bus......)

As
long as people can distinguish North from South, East from West.
You would perhaps be surprised how few people can. I am constantly
*staggered* at how many people don't seem to know that North is usually
at the top of a map.

LUL make
the signage 'really ****ing obvious'. The line colours, North V South, East
v West means I could jump onto an unfamiliar station and flow through it
without much brain power.
I would agree but many wouldn't!

At various stations in Paris, signs would point to
different lines, I'd walk via the directions then come to an intersection
but less obvious pointers. I'd wander around for a few minutes until I catch
sight of a poor sign then move on. The Underground has flow. The Metro
doesnt.
Once you master the metro's system for always guiding you with the Line
Number, the "direction" and the "Correspondance" then that too is very
easy. Paris and London just have different solutions to the problem
but I wouldn't; say that one was necessarily easier or harder than the
other.

Just my view.....

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 1 Nov 2004:

The distinctive smell of the Paris Metro - variable thought it is - has
never gone away since my first visit in the early 1980s.

I can assure you it was there in the 1970s! In fact, it was the thing
that "took me back" more than anything else when we went back for the
first time in 1993 (it might have been 1994, now I come to think of it,
but would swear to neither!).

the people I'd had the day before from another part
of the UK didn't venture outside Covent Garden during the r free time
because they wouldn't have dreamed of getting a tube or bus......)

I can never understand this attitude - for me, part of the challenge of
a new city is working out how to use it's public transport!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 31 October 2004

In message , Mrs Redboots
writes

I can never understand this attitude - for me, part of the challenge of
a new city is working out how to use it's public transport!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
In which case, if you come to West Cumbria, don't forget your car.
--
Clive.

In message , Mrs Redboots
writes
Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 1 Nov 2004:
the people I'd had the day before from another part
of the UK didn't venture outside Covent Garden during the r free time
because they wouldn't have dreamed of getting a tube or bus......)

I can never understand this attitude - for me, part of the challenge of
a new city is working out how to use it's public transport!
Indeed, it is for me, too. But such views, while not unknown are very
uncommon.

That said, do bear in mind that by definition I tend to deal with people
who book guided tours, so they tend to be the ones most likely to want
everything arranged for them. The problems arise when they want to do
something that isn't in an itinerary or is during "free time" but want
to be hand held to that, too.

I had very considerable grief from three American ladies a few months
ago up here in Birmingham. They had a City Tour with me for half a day
and then wanted to visit "Cadbury World" at Bournville. They had three
more days completely free (their husbands were attending a conference).
No amount of telling them that there were four or more trains an hour
from a station virtually next to their hotel cut any ice. They wanted
to know why I hadn't taken them there and kept saying that, while on
vacation, they didn't want to have to go around "figuring things out".
I felt very exasperated and this is perhaps an extreme example but it
does happen.

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 2 Nov 2004:

That said, do bear in mind that by definition I tend to deal with people
who book guided tours, so they tend to be the ones most likely to want
everything arranged for them. The problems arise when they want to do
something that isn't in an itinerary or is during "free time" but want
to be hand held to that, too.

That's true. And I am the kind of person who would only book a guided
tour of a city if I only had a couple of days there and wanted an
overview! Otherwise, I'd figure out how to use local buses, and copy a
tour using them (we did that in Hong Kong, and it was half the price a
city tour would have been, and a lot more fun!).
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 31 October 2004

In message , Mrs Redboots
writes
Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 2 Nov 2004:

That said, do bear in mind that by definition I tend to deal with people
who book guided tours, so they tend to be the ones most likely to want
everything arranged for them. The problems arise when they want to do
something that isn't in an itinerary or is during "free time" but want
to be hand held to that, too.

That's true. And I am the kind of person who would only book a guided
tour of a city if I only had a couple of days there and wanted an
overview!
No, I'm one of those, too! :-))

the fact that I don't enjoy "conventional" tours has - I think - helped
me in the way I do my job now.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 2 Nov 2004:

That said, do bear in mind that by definition I tend to deal with people
who book guided tours, so they tend to be the ones most likely to want
everything arranged for them. The problems arise when they want to do
something that isn't in an itinerary or is during "free time" but want
to be hand held to that, too.

That's true. And I am the kind of person who would only book a guided
tour of a city if I only had a couple of days there and wanted an
overview! Otherwise, I'd figure out how to use local buses, and copy a
tour using them (we did that in Hong Kong, and it was half the price a
city tour would have been, and a lot more fun!).

I got quite a reputation during a visit to Venice for negotiations with a
company at Porto Marghera. I got hold of a water bus timetable and we had a
great time using different routes. The cross-platform change at Fondamente
Nuevo got them moving. Later enhanced by using the public transport in
Moscow and Leningrad. With a party of eight in tow, it required a long
string of tickets to get them to our destination by tram and trolley bus.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

In message , Terry Harper
writes

I got quite a reputation during a visit to Venice for negotiations with a
company at Porto Marghera. I got hold of a water bus timetable and we had a
great time using different routes.

Connecting with another thread here about "lollipop" bus routes, this
reminds me that ACTV in Venice have, in probably a majority of cases,
vaporetto services in both directions from the same stop - to the
perpetual confusion of many tourists.

--
Paul Terry

--- Paul Terry said:


Connecting with another thread here about "lollipop" bus routes, this
reminds me that ACTV in Venice have, in probably a majority of cases,
vaporetto services in both directions from the same stop - to the
perpetual confusion of many tourists.


In Gent, Belgium, one of the tram routes does a large lollipop. It's
very confusing on the maps, since they don't have any Beck-style
diagrams for the tram network -- just street maps with tram and buss
routes superimposed on them.

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

Connecting with another thread here about "lollipop" bus routes, this
reminds me that ACTV in Venice have, in probably a majority of cases,
vaporetto services in both directions from the same stop - to the
perpetual confusion of many tourists.

You don't need lollipop routes to confuse tourists like that. Try
Cambridge station with choices of destination like King's Cross and King's
Lynn or Liverpool Street and Liverpool Lime Street, both in opposite
directions on the same platform.

--
Colin Rosenstiel