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What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
....built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still
performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? The Greenwich viaduct? Peter. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Matthew Church" wrote in message
om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Is it a BR sandwich? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Something to do with the Surrey Iron Railway? Jeremy Parker |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
Matthew Church wrote: ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. The old guy at South Kensington who always goes a bit Norman Collier when he tries to use the tannoy? |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Beddington Lane level crossing - age about 200 years (Surrey Iron Rly/LBSCR/SR/BR/Tramlink) Chris Cook Beckenham, Kent |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, John Rowland wrote:
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Is it a BR sandwich? Are you suggesting this object was built to provide a service? tom -- Outnumbered but never outgunned. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
Chris Cook wrote:
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Beddington Lane level crossing - age about 200 years (Surrey Iron Rly/LBSCR/SR/BR/Tramlink) Chris Cook Beckenham, Kent Isn't the main line north of Redhill on the line of the Surrey Iron Railway? But is it the original line or the Quarry line? Henry Law |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Henry Law" wrote in message .. . Chris Cook wrote: "Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Beddington Lane level crossing - age about 200 years (Surrey Iron Rly/LBSCR/SR/BR/Tramlink) Chris Cook Beckenham, Kent Isn't the main line north of Redhill on the line of the Surrey Iron Railway? But is it the original line or the Quarry line? The Surrey Iron Railway served the stone quarries (underground) at Quarry Dean, Merstham; remains of one of the bridges may be seen by the Happy Eater cafe at Hooley just N of the M23, above the old main line tunnel (not the Quarry line). There is some original SIR rail on the corner of the A23 by the Feathers pub in Merstham. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"MartinM" wrote in message ... "Henry Law" wrote in message .. . Chris Cook wrote: "Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Beddington Lane level crossing - age about 200 years (Surrey Iron Rly/LBSCR/SR/BR/Tramlink) Chris Cook Beckenham, Kent Isn't the main line north of Redhill on the line of the Surrey Iron Railway? But is it the original line or the Quarry line? The Surrey Iron Railway served the stone quarries (underground) at Quarry Dean, Merstham; remains of one of the bridges may be seen by the Happy Eater cafe at Hooley just N of the M23, above the old main line tunnel (not the Quarry line). There is some original SIR rail on the corner of the A23 by the Feathers pub in Merstham. if you are talking in the country then i Believe causey arch is the oldest surviving "raiL" bridge in the world |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
kevin smith wrote:
"MartinM" wrote in message ... "Henry Law" wrote in message .. . Chris Cook wrote: "Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Beddington Lane level crossing - age about 200 years (Surrey Iron Rly/LBSCR/SR/BR/Tramlink) Isn't the main line north of Redhill on the line of the Surrey Iron Railway? But is it the original line or the Quarry line? The Surrey Iron Railway served the stone quarries (underground) at Quarry Dean, Merstham; remains of one of the bridges may be seen by the Happy Eater cafe at Hooley just N of the M23, above the old main line tunnel (not the Quarry line). There is some original SIR rail on the corner of the A23 by the Feathers pub in Merstham. if you are talking in the country then i Believe causey arch is the oldest surviving "raiL" bridge in the world But surely it's not "still performing the service for which it was built", i.e. as a railway bridge? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"MartinM" wrote in message ...
"Henry Law" wrote in message .. . Chris Cook wrote: "Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Beddington Lane level crossing - age about 200 years (Surrey Iron Rly/LBSCR/SR/BR/Tramlink) Chris Cook Beckenham, Kent Isn't the main line north of Redhill on the line of the Surrey Iron Railway? But is it the original line or the Quarry line? The Surrey Iron Railway served the stone quarries (underground) at Quarry Dean, Merstham; remains of one of the bridges may be seen by the Happy Eater cafe at Hooley just N of the M23, above the old main line tunnel (not the Quarry line). There is some original SIR rail on the corner of the A23 by the Feathers pub in Merstham. Thanks for that I have never found that bit of line, I will try and do so today, but I drive past the bridge every afternoon, as do 10,000 other people, and I bet no more than 10 of us recognise it for what it is. Starting on the east side of Youngs Brewery on the Thames (east of The Crane pub), The Surrey Iron Railroad followed (roughly) Garratt Lane, passed Colliers Wood at perpendicular to the current underground track and slightly to the west of the LU station, then meandered down to Carshalton terminating near the ponds. Later it was extended to link with the Croydon Canal: MORE TRIVIA: WTF has the Croydon Canal got to do with uk.railway ??? And then - as you say - follows roughly the existing line past Stoats Nest Station (alight here for the Derby in Epsom when it was first built). The bridge by the Happy Eater is intact and is the original AFAIK, there is another bridge very close which has been partially demolished to allow access to a field. No other remnant of the line exists but you can "walk it" - start at The Goat in Mitcham and follow Tramway Passage until you reach the London to Wimbledon tram line, then the tram follows the old railroad for some distance. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
--- Matthew Church said: MORE TRIVIA: WTF has the Croydon Canal got to do with uk.railway ??? IIRC it was filled in and became the trackbed on the line via Forest Hill and Sydenham. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
In article , Richard J.
writes if you are talking in the country then i Believe causey arch is the oldest surviving "raiL" bridge in the world But surely it's not "still performing the service for which it was built", i.e. as a railway bridge? The arch might not be, but much of the embankment that the Tansfield (?) Railway runs on is artificial construction from the same period, and still performing the service of "railway embankment". -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Peter Masson" wrote in message ...
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? The Greenwich viaduct? Peter. I believe that includes the only ever railway swing bridge. But that isn't in use in that function any more. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
Richard J. wrote: kevin smith wrote: "MartinM" wrote in message ... "Henry Law" wrote in message .. . Chris Cook wrote: "Matthew Church" wrote in message om... ...built for a public railway which is still in-situ and still performing the service for which it was built? Clue: it lies within the M25. Beddington Lane level crossing - age about 200 years (Surrey Iron Rly/LBSCR/SR/BR/Tramlink) Isn't the main line north of Redhill on the line of the Surrey Iron Railway? But is it the original line or the Quarry line? The Surrey Iron Railway served the stone quarries (underground) at Quarry Dean, Merstham; remains of one of the bridges may be seen by the Happy Eater cafe at Hooley just N of the M23, above the old main line tunnel (not the Quarry line). There is some original SIR rail on the corner of the A23 by the Feathers pub in Merstham. if you are talking in the country then i Believe causey arch is the oldest surviving "raiL" bridge in the world But surely it's not "still performing the service for which it was built", i.e. as a railway bridge? I was responding to Henry's question about the SIR. BTW I don't think the stone quarries were ever served by the SIR, it was lime works, which were still served by a branch from the Northbound Redhill line over the Quarry line just S of the tunnel (track is still there between the two sets of lines but the bridge has gone. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ... In article , Richard J. writes if you are talking in the country then i Believe causey arch is the oldest surviving "raiL" bridge in the world But surely it's not "still performing the service for which it was built", i.e. as a railway bridge? The arch might not be, but much of the embankment that the Tansfield (?) Railway runs on is artificial construction from the same period, and still performing the service of "railway embankment". Tanfield. And yes, they do claim to be the oldest 'operating' railway in the world |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Matthew Church" wrote in message om... Starting on the east side of Youngs Brewery on the Thames (east of The Crane pub), The Surrey Iron Railroad followed (roughly) Garratt Lane, passed Colliers Wood at perpendicular to the current underground track and slightly to the west of the LU station, then meandered down to Carshalton terminating near the ponds. Later it was extended to link with the Croydon Canal: And then - as you say - follows roughly the existing line past Stoats Nest Station (alight here for the Derby in Epsom when it was first built). The bridge by the Happy Eater is intact and is the original AFAIK, there is another bridge very close which has been partially demolished to allow access to a field. No other remnant of the line exists but you can "walk it" - start at The Goat in Mitcham and follow Tramway Passage until you reach the London to Wimbledon tram line, then the tram follows the old railroad for some distance. The Surrey Iron Railway ran from Wandsworth to Croydon, with branches to Hackbridge and the Croydon Canal Basin. After the London & Croydon and London & Brighton Railways opened (by 1841), the Surrey Iron Railway was effectively defunct, and was closed, and the company dissolved, in August 1846. Part of the trackbed was subsequently used for the Wimbledon & Croydon Railway (and recently converted for Tramlink). The nominally separate Croydon, Merstham & Godstone Railway extended the Croydon Iron Railway to the Greystone Lime Works. Its trackbed was not used by the London & Brighton, except incidentally, but the Brighton's route did intersect it and obliterate its route, and the London & Brighton purchased the earlier company in 1838. Peter |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
I believe that includes the only ever railway swing bridge.
Nope. The Oxford Companion to British Railway History says: # Opening bridges were built across some navigable waterways, # allowing shipping to pass. They were usually swing bridges, # like Thowse Bridge, Norwich (one of the earliest), Selby over # the Yorkshire Ouse, Hawarden across the Dee near Chester, and # one at each end of the Caledonian Canal. Scherzer rolling-lift # bascule bridges replaced earlier swing bridges at Carmarthen # and across the Trent at Keadby ... Incidentally, remember the Amtrak disaster around 10-15 years ago where a barge went off course and collided with a bridge, which then collapsed under the next train to come along? According to a TV show I watched recently, that bridge was built as a swing bridge, but the railway eventually decided not to install the motor, and used it as an ordinary bridge. However, the show said, they neglected to rigidly attach the moving span to the abutments, and that's why the barge collision knocked it out of position so easily. -- Mark Brader "It is hard to be brave," said Piglet, sniffing Toronto slightly, when you're only a Very Small Animal". -- A. A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh My text in this article is in the public domain. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"MIG" wrote in message
m... The Greenwich viaduct? I believe that includes the only ever railway swing bridge. I presume you mean the one in Deptford... but there was another a few miles away, carrying a now-disused railway over the now-disused Surrey Canal. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"MIG" wrote in message m... The Greenwich viaduct? I believe that includes the only ever railway swing bridge. But that isn't in use in that function any more. Deptford Creek. By no means the only swing bridge - others included one over the entrance to Royal Victoria Dock (to retain access to the Silvetown Tramway when the North Woolwich line was diverted via Custom House), one on the surface route over the link between the Victoria and Royal Albert Docks (retained so that heavy freight trains would not have to negotiate the gradients into the Connaught Tunnel), and across an Oxford Canal branch on the entrance to Oxford Rewley Road (LMS) station. I am sure there were many others, though I suspect Deptford Creek was the first. Peter |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Matthew Church" wrote in message
om... "MartinM" wrote in message ... The Surrey Iron Railway No other remnant of the line exists but you can "walk it" - start at The Goat in Mitcham and follow Tramway Passage until you reach the London to Wimbledon tram line, then the tram follows the old railroad for some distance. Does anyone organise walks of the line? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
Peter Masson wrote: "Matthew Church" wrote in message om... Starting on the east side of Youngs Brewery on the Thames (east of The Crane pub), The Surrey Iron Railroad followed (roughly) Garratt Lane, passed Colliers Wood at perpendicular to the current underground track and slightly to the west of the LU station, then meandered down to Carshalton terminating near the ponds. Later it was extended to link with the Croydon Canal: And then - as you say - follows roughly the existing line past Stoats Nest Station (alight here for the Derby in Epsom when it was first built). The bridge by the Happy Eater is intact and is the original AFAIK, there is another bridge very close which has been partially demolished to allow access to a field. No other remnant of the line exists but you can "walk it" - start at The Goat in Mitcham and follow Tramway Passage until you reach the London to Wimbledon tram line, then the tram follows the old railroad for some distance. The Surrey Iron Railway ran from Wandsworth to Croydon, with branches to Hackbridge and the Croydon Canal Basin. After the London & Croydon and London & Brighton Railways opened (by 1841), the Surrey Iron Railway was effectively defunct, and was closed, and the company dissolved, in August 1846. Part of the trackbed was subsequently used for the Wimbledon & Croydon Railway (and recently converted for Tramlink). The nominally separate Croydon, Merstham & Godstone Railway extended the Croydon Iron Railway to the Greystone Lime Works. It never got to Godstone although IIRC some of the rails ended up in the underground stone quarry there Its trackbed was not used by the London & Brighton, except incidentally, but the Brighton's route did intersect it and obliterate its route, and the London & Brighton purchased the earlier company in 1838. The mainline spur to the limeworks is still there complete with track, between the two tunnel approaches S of the Merstham tunnels; but the bridge which took it over the Quarry line just before the tunnel has gone. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
In article ,
kevin smith wrote: if you are talking in the country then i Believe causey arch is the oldest surviving "raiL" bridge in the world Not been used to carry a railway in a very long time, though - not since before 1800, IIRC. 'sides, if we're talking structures no longer in use then the oldest recognisable railway structure known is clearly the Diolkos of Corinth... (also the longest-operating public railway, in use from about 600 BCE until around 65 CE - beat that!) -- Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/ Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair) |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Solar Penguin" wrote in message ...
--- Matthew Church said: MORE TRIVIA: WTF has the Croydon Canal got to do with uk.railway ??? IIRC it was filled in and became the trackbed on the line via Forest Hill and Sydenham. The track runs along the bottom of the canal, the brickwork and the old basin form part of an earlier transport system. Quite a nice link for the SIR: "In 1803, the Surrey Iron Railway was opened in Mitcham. It was the first public railway to be sanctioned by Parliament and made Mitcham the first place in the world to be served by a public railway. It used horse drawn wagons to carry coal from the Thames at Wandsworth as far as Croydon. On the way back from Croydon to Wandsworth, these wagons carried flour, copper, paper and the town's most famous product - Mitcham Lavender. The Georgian station at Mitcham is still in use, and is one of the oldest railway stations in the world." http://tinyurl.com/3rgo4 "The line was opened on 26th July, 1803. It was therefore the first horse railway for public transport which was independent of a canal. The railway was fairly level and a horse could pull five or six loaded wagons carry over 20 tons of coal at just under 3 mph." http://tinyurl.com/4h9wc I drove over, and looked under, the bridge at the Dean Lane junction with the busy A23 by the Happy Eater today and it is still very much a bridge. When those old engineers (Jessop in this case) took on projects they didn't do things by halves did they?! The first ever public railway and they wanted to extend it to Portsmouth! The Liverpool and Manchester had to go for a swim in Chat Moss, and the next one IIRC was the London & Chatham with a colossal viaduct which shattered the wheels of the carriages. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
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What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
Peter Heather wrote: and the underground mine workings in Merstham still exist (although not very accessible). 11 miles + still accessible, although the original haulage shaft (into what is now called Football Field on no 1 mine) is flooded and inaccessible from the Merstham end. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Peter Heather" wrote
Also, there are two very obvious remanants of the Croydon Canal in the form of the original reservoir (now South Norwood Lake) and the length of canal now preserved in a park just off Anerley Hill (I think that's its name) There is a bridge parapet in Croydon which I recollect is reckoned to date back to the canal. It is over the W. Croydon rail line and is in either Sydenham Road or Gloucester Road, I can't remember which. There is a notch on the south side of Greenland Dock which seems to line up with the point where the canal came in. You can see it on the Multimap aerial photo. I believe also that the loop of road from Regina Road to Albert Road in S. Norwood follows the line of a meander which formed after the canal was closed. Not sure in what manner the closed canal was flowing to form a meander though! I am going from memory of having read a book on the subject, but that was quite a while ago. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
In message , John Rowland
writes The Surrey Iron Railway Does anyone organise walks of the line? I don't know (although the tiny Wandle Industrial Museum might). However, I do recall that the standard short book on the SIR (*) includes descriptions and maps of a number of walks you could take along the line. (*) I seem to have mislaid my copy, but I'm pretty sure it must be "First public railway - Surrey Iron Railway" by Derek Bayliss. Available from the Wandle Museum: http://www.curator.pwp.blueyonder.co...htg/framed.htm -- Paul Terry |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
Matthew Church wrote:
"Solar Penguin" wrote in message ... --- Matthew Church said: MORE TRIVIA: WTF has the Croydon Canal got to do with uk.railway ??? IIRC it was filled in and became the trackbed on the line via Forest Hill and Sydenham. The track runs along the bottom of the canal, the brickwork and the old basin form part of an earlier transport system. If you allow reused infrastructure from older transport forms incorporated into new ones, then the Higham and Strood tunnels must count, as they were dug for the Thames & Medway canal in 17xx. Robin |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Mark Brader wrote:
I believe that includes the only ever railway swing bridge. Nope. The Oxford Companion to British Railway History says: # Opening bridges were built across some navigable waterways, # allowing shipping to pass. They were usually swing bridges, # like Like the bridge over Alresford Creek, on the Brightlingsea to Wivenhoe railway, a mile or two from where i grew up. It was demolished long before i was born, but i remember being told about it. tom -- Demolish serious culture! |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"R.C. Payne" wrote in message ... If you allow reused infrastructure from older transport forms incorporated into new ones, then the Higham and Strood tunnels must count, as they were dug for the Thames & Medway canal in 17xx. 1819-24 Peter |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Peter Masson" wrote in message ... ......and across an Oxford Canal branch on the entrance to Oxford Rewley Road (LMS) station. Peter The swing bridge deck was still there in June this year, alongside the 'Sheepwash Channel', stuck in the open position and hemmed in on all sides by new building work. Paul |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
In article , Mark Brader
writes I believe that includes the only ever railway swing bridge. Nope. Indeed, far far far from "only". The Oxford Companion to British Railway History says: # Opening bridges were built across some navigable waterways, # allowing shipping to pass. They were usually swing bridges, # like Thowse Bridge, Norwich (one of the earliest), Trowse (note spelling) is still in use, and has a 25kV overhead power rail. Selby over # the Yorkshire Ouse, That's still there as well, though it's no longer on the ECML. At one time the tracks had four rails each, so that the point blades could be on the same side of the bridge as the rest of the interlocking, even though the divergence was on the other side. [There have been swing bridges where the signal wire "pull" actually got transmitted across the bridge to a signal on the far side. A neat mechanical solution.] -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
"Henry" wrote in message ... "Peter Heather" wrote Also, there are two very obvious remanants of the Croydon Canal in the form of the original reservoir (now South Norwood Lake) and the length of canal now preserved in a park just off Anerley Hill (I think that's its name) There is a bridge parapet in Croydon which I recollect is reckoned to date back to the canal. It is over the W. Croydon rail line and is in either Sydenham Road or Gloucester Road, I can't remember which. There is a notch on the south side of Greenland Dock which seems to line up with the point where the canal came in. You can see it on the Multimap aerial photo. I believe also that the loop of road from Regina Road to Albert Road in S. Norwood follows the line of a meander which formed after the canal was closed. Not sure in what manner the closed canal was flowing to form a meander though! I am going from memory of having read a book on the subject, but that was quite a while ago. Having rechecked my source, the parapet is in Gloucester Road and the idea of the meander was complete imagination on my part, the loop of roads roughly follows the line of the canal itself. |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
Peter Masson wrote:
"R.C. Payne" wrote in message ... If you allow reused infrastructure from older transport forms incorporated into new ones, then the Higham and Strood tunnels must count, as they were dug for the Thames & Medway canal in 17xx. 1819-24 Peter Are they really that new? I had always assumed they were older than that, but a quick google confirms these dates. Robin |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
--- Matthew Church said:
Quite a nice link for the SIR: "In 1803, the Surrey Iron Railway was opened in Mitcham. It was the first public railway to be sanctioned by Parliament and made Mitcham the first place in the world to be served by a public railway. It used horse drawn wagons to carry coal from the Thames at Wandsworth as far as Croydon. On the way back from Croydon to Wandsworth, these wagons carried flour, copper, paper and the town's most famous product - Mitcham Lavender. The Georgian station at Mitcham is still in use, and is one of the oldest railway stations in the world." http://tinyurl.com/3rgo4 If this is the answer to the original posted question, I am not sure it is correct. The building was built as a house and only adapted as a station in the 1850's when the SIR was replaced by the 'conventional' railway. There is no evidence that I know of to suggest it was anything other than a private house when the SIR was built. The SIR didn't have stations in the accepted sense as it served various wharves and sidings etc for goods only. There was a loop and sidings for a coal merchant here but it was on the south side of the line and not where the station building is. The web site quoted is a bit misleading here. Also, Mitcham was hardly the first place to be served by a public railway. It was simply near the route of the line that went to Croydon (much more important) and intended to go on to Portsmouth. Peter Heather |
What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
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What is the oldest object or construction in the world...
On 3 Nov 2004 06:44:34 -0800, (Peter
Heather) wrote: Also, there are two very obvious remanants of the Croydon Canal in the form of the original reservoir (now South Norwood Lake) and the length of canal now preserved in a park just off Anerley Hill (I think that's its name) The park is called Betts Park. PRAR -- http://www.i.am/prar/ As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. Dick Cavett Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists. NB Anti-spam measures in force - If you must email me use the Reply to address and not |
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