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Too many bus stops in london?
Stuck in a traffic jam again this morning caused (surprise surprise)
by a bus crawling along the road and stopping in the middle of it even when it could pull into the bus stop, I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Are the people who use the bus too bone idle to be able to walk more than the length of a football pitch to get to the stop? Reducing the stops by half would mean that the jam I was in (and probably hundreds of others) would move at double the speed (maybe even the heady heights of 15mph, woo!). Surely this would be one way of reducing jams in the city? (And anyone who tells me that I should be in the bus instead of my car anyway can just save their typing right now because if they think I'm changing twice and spending probably 90 mins in 3 juddering buses and waiting in the rain to travel 9 miles they're living in dreamland. If the tube or train was an option I'd use them but they arn't.) B2003 |
Too many bus stops in london?
"Boltar" wrote in message
om... I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Is it? Bus stops tend to be located near important side roads, so that people who may already have walked the length of several football pitches to get to the bus route don't have to walk any further to get to the stop. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Too many bus stops in london?
"John Rowland" typed
"Boltar" wrote in message om... I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Is it? Bus stops tend to be located near important side roads, so that people who may already have walked the length of several football pitches to get to the bus route don't have to walk any further to get to the stop. Some people might be carrying heavy shopping or wriggly babies too... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Too many bus stops in london?
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message ...
(Boltar)typed Stuck in a traffic jam again this morning caused (surprise surprise) by a bus crawling along the road and stopping in the middle of it even when it could pull into the bus stop, Knowing that, if he pulled into a bus stop, London's considerate drivers would not let him out. Irrelevant. He's supposed to pull into stops. If he doesn't then he's not doing his job properly aside from the fact that it risks boarding passengers getting hit by undertaking cyclists or bikers. They are only closely spaced when separated by major junctions that are difficult to cross on foot IME. Otherwise, the spacing is closer to 400 metres. 400 metres? You must be joking. Not from what I've seen. Are the people who use the bus too bone idle to be able to walk more than the length of a football pitch to get to the stop? I AM NOT BONE IDLE; I AM DISABLED! Then how do you fit your wheelchair on the bus then in the rush hour? And why can't you use one of those special council run disabled services? Another way of reducing jams in London would be to reduce unnecessary car journeys. Some however are necessary. (And anyone who tells me that I should be in the bus instead of my car anyway can just save their typing right now because if they think I'm changing twice and spending probably 90 mins in 3 juddering buses and waiting in the rain to travel 9 miles they're living in dreamland. If the tube or train was an option I'd use them but they arn't.) Get a bicycle then. Thanks for the standard issue right-on reply. Very helpful. Besides I don't fancy cycling on the north circular as I'd rather like to live for more than a week and aside from which I doubt my boss would appreciate me arriving sweaty/wet/tired/ill. B2003 |
Too many bus stops in london?
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message ...
"John Rowland" typed "Boltar" wrote in message om... I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Is it? Bus stops tend to be located near important side roads, so that people who may already have walked the length of several football pitches to get to the bus route don't have to walk any further to get to the stop. Some people might be carrying heavy shopping or wriggly babies too... Though as a heavy bus user myself I think there could be a rationalisation of some of the stops. I note all the above points but some of the spacing is rather close leading to much frustration to the bus passengers as well. Jim |
Too many bus stops in london?
Boltar wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 8 Nov 2004:
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message . .. Are the people who use the bus too bone idle to be able to walk more than the length of a football pitch to get to the stop? I AM NOT BONE IDLE; I AM DISABLED! Then how do you fit your wheelchair on the bus then in the rush hour? And why can't you use one of those special council run disabled services? Do feel free to point out where Helen said she used a wheelchair? Why do you make such an assumption - I know loads of people who are disabled (including my sister-in-law and my nephew) who don't use a wheelchair. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Too many bus stops in london?
In article , Boltar
writes Stuck in a traffic jam again this morning caused (surprise surprise) by a bus crawling along the road and stopping in the middle of it even when it could pull into the bus stop, I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Are the people who use the bus too bone idle to be able to walk more than the length of a football pitch to get to the stop? I take it you would be all in favour of the proposed West London Tram, because that would drastically cut down the number of stops along Uxbridge Road. It's one of the best arguments against the tram, IMHO. -- Thoss |
Too many bus stops in london?
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Too many bus stops in london?
In message , Helen Deborah
Vecht writes They are only closely spaced when separated by major junctions that are difficult to cross on foot IME. Otherwise, the spacing is closer to 400 metres. I have to say that most of the bus stops around here (SW14) are much closer together than that - 200 metres would probably be average. When catching a bus, one is very grateful for the short walk, but when on the bus one tends to get very irritated that the bus stops so horribly frequently. -- Paul Terry |
Too many bus stops in london?
On 8 Nov 2004 01:32:00 -0800, (Boltar) said:
Stuck in a traffic jam again this morning caused (surprise surprise) by a bus crawling along the road and stopping in the middle of it even when it could pull into the bus stop You're certain that there was no bike courier, white van, or other oik in the bus stop? Absolutely 100% certain? And I bet traffic would have flowed better if it was a Routemaster - they don't have to stop for so long. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david |
Too many bus stops in london?
Mrs Redboots typed
Do feel free to point out where Helen said she used a wheelchair? Thanks. I'm not yet in a wheelchair and walk without a stick but I *can't* walk very far (about 200 metres). Why do you make such an assumption - I know loads of people who are disabled (including my sister-in-law and my nephew) who don't use a wheelchair. Most disabled people are neither in wheelchairs, nor blind. There seems to be much provision for these, less for people like me who can't walk far and need seats downstairs on the buses. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Too many bus stops in london?
thoss wrote in message ...
In article , Boltar writes Stuck in a traffic jam again this morning caused (surprise surprise) by a bus crawling along the road and stopping in the middle of it even when it could pull into the bus stop, I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Are the people who use the bus too bone idle to be able to walk more than the length of a football pitch to get to the stop? I take it you would be all in favour of the proposed West London Tram, because that would drastically cut down the number of stops along Uxbridge Road. It's one of the best arguments against the tram, IMHO. Sounds like a good idea to me then. No doubt the nimbys in croydon said the same thing 5 years ago. Lets turn your argument on its head however and see how it sounds - you have a nice fast tram service and someone comes along and says "we're going to replace it with a slow bus that stops every 200 / 400 metres so lazy people don't have to walk so far. What do you think? Good idea?" I'm sure they'd be oh so popular. B2003 B2003 |
Too many bus stops in london?
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message ...
Mrs Redboots typed Do feel free to point out where Helen said she used a wheelchair? Thanks. I'm not yet in a wheelchair and walk without a stick but I *can't* walk very far (about 200 metres). Well in that case unless the bus stops within 200 metres of your destination then its useless to you anyway so your point is? B2003 |
Too many bus stops in london?
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 8 Nov 2004:
Mrs Redboots typed Do feel free to point out where Helen said she used a wheelchair? Thanks. I'm not yet in a wheelchair and walk without a stick but I *can't* walk very far (about 200 metres). Is what I seem to remember from earlier postings of yours! Why do you make such an assumption - I know loads of people who are disabled (including my sister-in-law and my nephew) who don't use a wheelchair. Most disabled people are neither in wheelchairs, nor blind. There seems to be much provision for these, less for people like me who can't walk far and need seats downstairs on the buses. My in-laws are blind, as it happens, but, as you so rightly say, it's mostly people who can't walk very well. Which new buses simply don't address, if you ask me, as there's such a long way to go before you can sit down, and no conductor to help you on and off. My sister-in-law thinks it's very funny that the bell-pushes on modern buses have markings in Braille on them - by the time you've found the bell-push, would you actually need the Braille to tell you that you have? -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Too many bus stops in london?
Boltar wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 9 Nov 2004:
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message . .. Mrs Redboots typed Do feel free to point out where Helen said she used a wheelchair? Thanks. I'm not yet in a wheelchair and walk without a stick but I *can't* walk very far (about 200 metres). Well in that case unless the bus stops within 200 metres of your destination then its useless to you anyway so your point is? And according to you, buses *do* stop every 200 metres, so *your* point is? -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Too many bus stops in london?
(Boltar)typed
Well in that case unless the bus stops within 200 metres of your destination then its useless to you anyway so your point is? Most of my destinations *are* less than 200 metres of a bus stop so I go anywhere I like ;-) I would resent it if places were made less accessible by nimbys like you complaining from the comfort of their cars. I don't really know why I'm feeding utl's resident troll though... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Too many bus stops in london?
In article , Boltar
writes I take it you would be all in favour of the proposed West London Tram, because that would drastically cut down the number of stops along Uxbridge Road. It's one of the best arguments against the tram, IMHO. Sounds like a good idea to me then. No doubt the nimbys in croydon said the same thing 5 years ago. The difference between the two schemes is that a large part of the Croydon tram runs along disused railway lines. West London is designed to go straight down the Uxbridge Road all the way from Shepherd's Bush to Uxbridge, with other traffic banned in several places along the way. -- Thoss |
Too many bus stops in london?
In article , Mrs Redboots
writes My sister-in-law thinks it's very funny that the bell-pushes on modern buses have markings in Braille on them - by the time you've found the bell-push, would you actually need the Braille to tell you that you have? IIRC, there's a class of mainline train that has a *fake* push button on it[*]. Nevertheless, the DDA Mafia insisted that it have a Braille label. [*] There's a good reason for this - the door in question is operated by breaking a light beam. If your body doesn't break the beam, reaching out to the button will. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Too many bus stops in london?
David Cantrell wrote in message . ..
On 8 Nov 2004 01:32:00 -0800, (Boltar) said: You're certain that there was no bike courier, white van, or other oik in the bus stop? Absolutely 100% certain? And I bet traffic would have flowed better if it was a Routemaster - they don't have to stop for so long. Although Routemasters have the advantage of being able to alight and board whilst in slow moving traffic, are dwell times at stops really less than a dual or tri door bus? To me it seems a double deck or bendy spends less time at stops. |
Too many bus stops in london?
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
IIRC, there's a class of mainline train that has a *fake* push button on it[*]. Nevertheless, the DDA Mafia insisted that it have a Braille label. [*] There's a good reason for this - the door in question is operated by breaking a light beam. If your body doesn't break the beam, reaching out to the button will. That'd be all the Adtranz kit - when it's working - Electrostars, Turbostars and the likes. I always thought that the Danish approach on the IC3s of showing a pictogram of someone waving their hand in front of the door was better, as that's far more likely to activate the (rather pathetic) sensor than reaching for the "button" with one finger. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply use neil at the above domain. |
Too many bus stops in london?
Neil Williams wrote the following
in: Clive D. W. Feather wrote: IIRC, there's a class of mainline train that has a *fake* push button on it[*]. Nevertheless, the DDA Mafia insisted that it have a Braille label. [*] There's a good reason for this - the door in question is operated by breaking a light beam. If your body doesn't break the beam, reaching out to the button will. That'd be all the Adtranz kit - when it's working - Electrostars, Turbostars and the likes. I always thought that the Danish approach on the IC3s of showing a pictogram of someone waving their hand in front of the door was better, as that's far more likely to activate the (rather pathetic) sensor than reaching for the "button" with one finger. Does that mean that the buttons on the trains used by C2C don't actually do anything? -- message by Robin May. That egotism was getting old. Americans who voted for Bush: you ****ed up. http://robinmay.fotopic.net |
Too many bus stops in london?
Clive Feather:
IIRC, there's a class of mainline train that has a *fake* push button on it ... There's a good reason for this - the door in question is operated by breaking a light beam. If your body doesn't break the beam, reaching out to the button will. Neil Williams: That'd be all the Adtranz kit - when it's working - Electrostars, Turbostars and the likes. Well, which is supposed to break the beam -- your body or your extended hand? Where are the lamp and sensor placed in relation to the door? Are these the doors for walking from one car to the next? -- Mark Brader "Things are getting too standard around here. Toronto Time to innovate!" -- Ian Darwin and David Keldsen |
Too many bus stops in london?
Robin May wrote:
Does that mean that the buttons on the trains used by C2C don't actually do anything? Only the ones on the inside of the corridor connections between coaches. Have a look next time you travel - the ones that look like stickers actually are! (In answer to the other poster, the beam seems to be pointed straight down in front of the door, so you have to approach very close to it before it is activated). Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply use neil at the above domain. |
Too many bus stops in london?
Mark Brader wrote:
Well, which is supposed to break the beam -- your body or your extended hand? Where are the lamp and sensor placed in relation to the door? The sensor is above the door. I suspect it's ultrasonic or passive infra-red rather than a reflected beam, as there's nothing I can see for it to reflect off. I'm not sure what the intention is - but the design seems to be a poor one. Are these the doors for walking from one car to the next? Yes. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply use neil at the above domain. |
Too many bus stops in london?
Neil Williams wrote the following
in: Robin May wrote: Does that mean that the buttons on the trains used by C2C don't actually do anything? Only the ones on the inside of the corridor connections between coaches. Have a look next time you travel - the ones that look like stickers actually are! Oh, so only the bits between those two doors, between the carriages? I never noticed there were fake buttons, I always just reached up and waved my hand under the sensor. -- message by Robin May. That egotism was getting old. Americans who voted for Bush: you ****ed up. http://robinmay.fotopic.net |
Too many bus stops in london?
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
... (In answer to the other poster, the beam seems to be pointed straight down in front of the door, so you have to approach very close to it before it is activated). Ah, same as on the 365s, then. A bit of a design flaw, but most seem to cope with it okay. The best feature on those is the button on the other side, which only works if you press it gently. The attention-seeker types who go up to it and press hard and loudly simply end up looking like the fools that they are! |
Too many bus stops in london?
Boltar wrote:
Stuck in a traffic jam again this morning caused (surprise surprise) by a bus crawling along the road and stopping in the middle of it even when it could pull into the bus stop, I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Are the people who use the bus too bone idle to be able to walk more than the length of a football pitch to get to the stop? Reducing the stops by half would mean that the jam I was in (and probably hundreds of others) would move at double the speed (maybe even the heady heights of 15mph, woo!). Surely this would be one way of reducing jams in the city? (And anyone who tells me that I should be in the bus instead of my car anyway can just save their typing right now because if they think I'm changing twice and spending probably 90 mins in 3 juddering buses and waiting in the rain to travel 9 miles they're living in dreamland. If the tube or train was an option I'd use them but they arn't.) B2003 London is now the City of The Bus. Any proposal made to any local authority in London, or to TfL, as long as it contains the word BUS will be welcomed with open arms and adopted. It doesn't matter if it is sensible or not. It doesn't even matter if it makes for better bus journeys or not, just so long as a superficial, unintelligent view of it makes it look bus-positive. If all this was done intelligently, with better planned routes, lanes, etc then it could end up being a good thing, but I have no hopes... What a pity it is isn't politically fashionable to make London the City of The Great Tube/Train Services. -- Nick H (UK) |
Too many bus stops in london?
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
IIRC, there's a class of mainline train that has a *fake* push button on it[*]. [*] There's a good reason for this - the door in question is operated by breaking a light beam. If your body doesn't break the beam, reaching out to the button will. Surely the button could still be a real button - then, if the beam's duff (which it most assuredly will be one day), you can still open the door. tom -- I'm angry, but not Milk and Cheese angry. -- Mike Froggatt |
Too many bus stops in london?
"Neil Williams" wrote in message ... Mark Brader wrote: Well, which is supposed to break the beam -- your body or your extended hand? Where are the lamp and sensor placed in relation to the door? The sensor is above the door. I suspect it's ultrasonic or passive infra-red rather than a reflected beam, as there's nothing I can see for it to reflect off. I'm not sure what the intention is - but the design seems to be a poor one. Isn't it so the doors open only when someone wants to use them rather than every time anyone moves in the vacinity? If not, they seem to do that job quite well by happy coincidence. Shane |
Too many bus stops in london?
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:23:24 -0000, "Shane"
wrote: Isn't it so the doors open only when someone wants to use them rather than every time anyone moves in the vacinity? If not, they seem to do that job quite well by happy coincidence. Indeed - but a better and more intuitive solution would be a proper button, or even better (though RVAR seems to rule it out) a microswitched handle. Neil |
Too many bus stops in london?
Boltar wrote:
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote... Mrs Redboots typed Do feel free to point out where Helen said she used a wheelchair? Thanks. I'm not yet in a wheelchair and walk without a stick but I *can't* walk very far (about 200 metres). Well in that case unless the bus stops within 200 metres of your destination then its useless to you anyway so your point is? Fortunately London streets are well supplied with benches, so it's likely that a walk of more than 200m can be split into two or more of less than 200m. |
Too many bus stops in london?
Boltar wrote:
thoss wrote... writes Stuck in a traffic jam again this morning caused (surprise surprise) by a bus crawling along the road and stopping in the middle of it even when it could pull into the bus stop, I suddenly wondered why it was deemed necessary to have a bus stop every 200 hundred metres. Are the people who use the bus too bone idle to be able to walk more than the length of a football pitch to get to the stop? I take it you would be all in favour of the proposed West London Tram, because that would drastically cut down the number of stops along Uxbridge Road. It's one of the best arguments against the tram, IMHO. Would intersecting routes have more stops just off Uxbridge Road to compensate? Sounds like a good idea to me then. No doubt the nimbys in croydon said the same thing 5 years ago. They said a lot of things, but that wasn't one of them. Lets turn your argument on its head however and see how it sounds - you have a nice fast tram service and someone comes along and says "we're going to replace it with a slow bus that stops every 200 / 400 metres so lazy people don't have to walk so far. 'Tis not that simple, as Uxbridge Road currently has the limited stop 607 as well as the 207. What do you think? Good idea?" I'm sure they'd be oh so popular. A couple of years ago there was a proposal to install more stops in Hurst Road between Station Road (Sidcup) and FootsCray Lane. This mile was formerly part of (limited stop) route 726, so there were only three stops - one at the end and one in front of each of two schools. The plan was fiercely opposed by NIMBYs who didn't want a bus stop in front of their house. However, the real mystery is why TfL wanted more stops there, as the absence of sidestreets and the presence of stops on the end roads meant that nobody in the area was more than about 500m from a stop anyway. I don't know what the eventual outcome was. |
Too many bus stops in london?
Aidan Stanger wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 18 Nov 2004:
Fortunately London streets are well supplied with benches, so it's likely that a walk of more than 200m can be split into two or more of less than 200m. Oh? That might be true where you live, but it certainly isn't true here in South London! Not a bench to be had for miles, except at bus shelters - and by the time you've got to the bus stop anyway..... -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Too many bus stops in london?
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:42:00 +0000, Paul Terry
wrote: I have to say that most of the bus stops around here (SW14) are much closer together than that - 200 metres would probably be average. indeed, it is the same where I live When catching a bus, one is very grateful for the short walk, but when on the bus one tends to get very irritated that the bus stops so horribly frequently. the best buses I've used are in Holland, and the bus stops are a very long way apart by London standards. The 63 route on Farringdon Road has two stops that can't be more than 15m apart - that's crazy -- u n d e r a c h i e v e r |
Too many bus stops in london?
On 23 Nov 2004 10:26:39 GMT, u n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote: On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:42:00 +0000, Paul Terry wrote: I have to say that most of the bus stops around here (SW14) are much closer together than that - 200 metres would probably be average. indeed, it is the same where I live When catching a bus, one is very grateful for the short walk, but when on the bus one tends to get very irritated that the bus stops so horribly frequently. the best buses I've used are in Holland, and the bus stops are a very long way apart by London standards. The 63 route on Farringdon Road has two stops that can't be more than 15m apart - that's crazy Stop spacing is a legacy issue. Routes which are consistently closely spaced are ex-tram routes. The 207 stop spacing is a good example of this. With 17,500 bus stops in the Greater London a rationalisation process would take many years and cost a lot of money. Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
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