"Bystander" wrote in message
...

simple way round the problem , do as many truck companies do now
register
your vehicle in another eu state end of problem

You won't be able to insure it. yes you will how do you think the trucking
companies get on

Apparently, there are already a few police cars on the road equipped with
an automatic device which can read numberplates and determine in real
time by interrogating the DVLA computers whether the vehicle is taxed,
insured and (I think) MOTed. This is all done without intervention of the
police officer. It just sounds a warning buzzer and flashes up the number
of the offending vehicle. Apparently they have been very successful in
picking up some of the alarmingly large number of illegal vehicles. I
suspect that this will supercede the need for a numberplate microchip.

Exactly what I was saying, the system in the article already exists and
is in use - it is only the microchip/transponder that is not yet in place.

The problem with that system is that it is very easy to fake a number
plate, or obscure it so that it is unreadable.

I'm not saying that a transponder cannot be "faked" in some way, but
it is not as simple walking around the car park until you find a car
the same as the one you nicked, take down its number and walking
into Halfords to get them to make you up a set of plates of the same
number. (yeah, I know Halfords now ask for the V5, but it ain't
difficult to find someone who will do them without one)

Matt.

"Cynic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:06:29 GMT, "Matthew Maddock"
wrote:

Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how
will
the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ?

Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in
the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake!

There is nothing to stop a person from replacing the transponder on a
numberplate with a different transponder. Plus a market for fake
transponders (they are not rocket-science). A switch in the car could
make the transponder act like a James Bond type revolving numberplate

--
Cynic
There will just be a ready market for stolen plates , to clone other
vehicles

Paul Robson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 14 Nov 2004:

Why not have a simpler system ; like an insurance disk on
the windscreen ?

I believe in some countries they do something very like that - visible
proof of paid-up insurance on the windscreen or number-plate. Not a
micro-chip that can go wrong (or its reader could go wrong), but some
dog-tag or other.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

"Matthew Maddock" wrote in message
...
Apparently, there are already a few police cars on the road equipped with
an automatic device which can read numberplates and determine in real
time by interrogating the DVLA computers whether the vehicle is taxed,
insured and (I think) MOTed. This is all done without intervention of the
police officer. It just sounds a warning buzzer and flashes up the number
of the offending vehicle. Apparently they have been very successful in
picking up some of the alarmingly large number of illegal vehicles. I
suspect that this will supercede the need for a numberplate microchip.

Exactly what I was saying, the system in the article already exists and
is in use - it is only the microchip/transponder that is not yet in place.

The problem with that system is that it is very easy to fake a number
plate, or obscure it so that it is unreadable.

I'm not saying that a transponder cannot be "faked" in some way, but
it is not as simple walking around the car park until you find a car
the same as the one you nicked, take down its number and walking
into Halfords to get them to make you up a set of plates of the same
number. (yeah, I know Halfords now ask for the V5, but it ain't
difficult to find someone who will do them without one)

Matt. just nick the numberplate instead , or better still get the plate
made then swop it with the legit one , most owners wouldnt notice the
difference
one cloned vehicle to do with as you please

evn if you stick the cloned plate on your own motor how on eath are the
roadside units going to find you , if the plod pull you then its a case of
sorry officer the chip must have failed , thats quite ok sir ( the vehicles
not rreported stolen )

The chances of the plod checking the tax disk or vin number is pretty remote
, i was stopped twice on road side checks and they never picked up that the
tax disk in the van was nfact the one for my car the one in the car was
supposed to be in the van (i put them in the wrong vehicles when axing them
both )

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:27:47 +0000, Matthew Maddock wrote:

So... what does it do that ANPR doesn't then ? I suppose it's cheaper.

No a lot as far as I can see. Note that the article was written nearly
three years ago now, and was talking about a database - which now
exists, but with NPR rather than the transponder system they suggest.

I doubt it, not at that price, not the amount of battering it will get on
a number plate. It'd be more sensible to put it in the car, harder to swap
plates for one thing.

These things are *very* robust. The ones I was using 15 years ago
were only a couple of pounds each. They are used for all sorts of
things now-a-days. I'm sure anyone who has a pet will tell you that
you can pop down to your local vets and have one of these injected
into your favourite animal. If they can stand up to animal abuse, they
can stand up to being stuck into a number plate.

I'm not sure that's a very good example.... dogs aren't tanked along at
70 mph being vibrated and having mud and slush thrown at them.

Fine, but all that tells you is *that* plate is attached to *that* car.

Indeed.

Because on policies that have multiple vehicles and multiple drivers the
cars are explicitly detailed on the policy.

Not always they're not.

They should be. I used to have a motor trade policy and it was a legal
requirement that any cars which I kept on the road were registered on
the policy immediately. 18 months ago they didn't have to be, but they
do now. A lot of insurance companies can now refuse to run the period
of grace system because of this requirement (where they allow you
to back date your insurance a couple of weeks to your renewal date
if you "miss" it)

Well, one of my relatives claims not, but she may well be fibbing. (it is
required for her work apparently)

This in nothing new, the
insurance / tax & mot status of all vehicles is already part of a
database (MID for insurance) which the police can look up live now by
reading your number plate. There are many police cars with this system
already fitted, and it is used very sucessfully.

Not that successfully.....

Only because there are not enough police getting of their arses and
going out to pull cars!

True. Isn't there a simpler low-tech way of doing this. Road tax is
relatively simple to Police ; it just requires someone to actually do it

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:41:05 +0000, gwr4090 wrote:

Apparently, there are already a few police cars on the road equipped with
an automatic device which can read numberplates and determine in real
time by interrogating the DVLA computers whether the vehicle is taxed,
insured and (I think) MOTed. This is all done without intervention of the
police officer. It just sounds a warning buzzer and flashes up the number
of the offending vehicle. Apparently they have been very successful in
picking up some of the alarmingly large number of illegal vehicles. I
suspect that this will supercede the need for a numberplate microchip.

In fact, this is my solution to traffic congestion problems - a big
campaign against these vehicles could reduce traffic by about 20% at a
stroke and also make the roads a lot safer ! Perhaps they could set up a
few motorway type toll booths with similar cameras and automatic gates,
with a penalty of instant impoundment of illegal vehicles.

I think they simply need to do something about it - why not just have an
insurance disk like a tax disk in the Windscreen - or periodic blitzes ?

In message
s.freeserve.co.uk,
Paul Robson writes

Why not have a simpler system ; like an insurance disk on
the windscreen ?

Good idea. It would need some "tweaking" because, currently, drivers
are insured, not vehicles.

Or rather than the Police trying to automate everything, they could get
off their arses and do something about it.

Now you're being silly.

--
Mike

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:21:24 +0000, IanAl wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 05:38:56 +0000, Marc Brett
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:42:26 +0000, Mike wrote:

In message , Matthew
Maddock writes

Or you could simply fake a plate that looks like a real one - so how will
the "automatic detection" know if a car is there or not ?

Because the device reading the microchip will not detect its existence in
the plate. Simple - if it ain't there, then it is fake!

From the transponder reader's pov, what's the difference between a car
without a transponder and an empty space without a transponder?

Mass? Temerature? Capacitance? The transponder reader would have to be
combined with a vehicle detector of some sort to prevent fraud.

So what *exactly* happens if it detects that a vehicle has passed
which apparently doesn't have a working transponder?

Rising bollards trap the vehicle from bow, stern, port & starboard, and then
3,000 litres of pink custard is poured onto it. Consider it a warning.

In article , (Mike)
wrote:

In message
s.freeserve.co.uk,
Paul Robson writes

Why not have a simpler system ; like an insurance disk on
the windscreen ?

Good idea. It would need some "tweaking" because, currently, drivers
are insured, not vehicles.

Not exactly. My insurance is issued to me indeed but it only related to
the insured vehicle. When my wife (who has no full licence) was on the
policy it was still only one policy.

--
Colin Rosenstiel